Tree of Savior Forum

PC Gamer Review: 58/100 - "One nostalgia trip you might want to skip"

General Discussion
#80

Saying experience in reviewing games doesn’t matter is like comparing these types of professional review sites to steam reviews. that’s asinine.
and did you read the review? the dude outright states the game is fun (and that the art was great, which you seem to be hammering on here, by the way), but it’s plagued by so many problems, from technical issues like server instability and poor optimization, to design flaws like the awful class balance, that it’s hard to stick with it.

and he’s entirely correct. it definitely does not take 100 hours and 200 levels in to see all the problems mentioned in that review. I’d know, I have 220 hours into the game and I agree with the reviewer. What does that make me then? dumb?

something else also said earlier in the thread is that the reviewer represents every new player that knows nothing about the game and jumps into it blind. and is that wrong?

#81

Is it ok to jump into a game that you know nothing about?
That’s like the people who wanted to grind that complained about GW2’s lack of grind - they even made a manifesto agaisnt grinding - was it the company’s fault or the player’s?
The player has to make an informed decision.

1 Like
#82

You are one of the best examples of ignorant neckbeards. How old are you? 11? Let me guess. The bad reviews are the only ones that matter because it’s convenient.

Why can’t you just acknowledge that the game is good? [quote=“Athem, post:51, topic:260782”]
Honestly, you are so ignorant that it hurts.
[/quote]

Sadly you’re not ignorant, you’re just stupid. Giving you information won’t fix that unfortunately. You’re just dumb for life. [quote=“Athem, post:51, topic:260782”]
making conpiracy theories
[/quote]

It’s actually well established that the gaming journalism is very corrupt, and reviews are frequently bought. I guess you’re just super ignorant, but I’m not at all surprised.

#83

i found this game fun, even when i am a wizzard 2 playing solo, lots of secrets waiting to be revealed, every class is viable, i think its just about preferences. Another thing is to enjoy the game on your own pace, no need to be a perfectionist because it’s super hard to reveal all those secrets alone. Play with your friends and have fun.

1 Like
#84

Just like others who have 200+ characters can disagree.
How does that refute/support anything said in the previous post?

#85

And to note, even if you agree with some of his points. Like if the game has glitches or feels incomplete that just should verify that it isnt bad or it sucks.

Top of that the dude only talks about grinding a lot. When it isnt a complete grind at all. Unless he counts doing quests as grinding?

"That grinding is the heart of Tree of Savior won’t be a surprise to anyone familiar with its spiritual predecessor Ragnarok Online, the long-running Korean MMORPG"

You cant really compare the grind between this game. I played RO too. Before Renewal. Played a Sniper. Played a Scholar, and High Priest. QUests arnt entirely visible in that game. And they provide no hints of your next destination which makes them entirely inefficient.

"With over 80 different classes, Tree of Savior offers one of the most robust progression systems I’ve ever seen—but learning its ins and outs has been as painful as fun."

The dude felt it was a task to begin with in learning about his options.

"Fully exploring maps or collecting specific items dropped from monsters can also net you bonuses like extra experience or permanent stat increases from NPCs in each town. While I played mostly alone…"

The dude identified he played an MMORPG by himself. Yea people do that but is this really quality work of someone reviewing an MMORPG?

"Unfortunately, much of that potential is wasted on poor class balancing. Not every option you choose will be viable, and in true old school RPG fashion, it’s possible to ruin your build if you don’t know what you’re doing."

Class balancing can be said with any mmorpg. Very seldom one is balanced when one is complaining their class is to weak. Specially when the game requires you to be social and utilize each others skills in synergy. Which he wouldnt know that because he played alone.

"While some might praise this aspect of Tree of Savior as hardcore, I’d argue it’s simply unfun and needlessly punishing. There are truly original ideas behind some classes, like alchemists being able to “awaken” an item’s potential by braving a special dungeon or squires being able to set up vendor stalls in town to repair equipment. But one wrong move or one unfavorable balance update and all those hours invested in building them could be wasted."

I agreed with this a lot in fact i talk to people about it. But I anticipate that he came into the game with no pre-determined idea of what kind of character he wanted to be.

He continues to talk about himself as a grinder.

He shows his hoplight with lv 5 Syncrho Thrusting which is like a huge NO. So he honestly doesnt know anything about this game. He picked that skill over stabbing. So his lack of time invested into learning what is good for himself questions his validity of if the game is good. It explains what he previously wrote, and he came into the game expecting it to be like Ragnarok mixed with the classic expectation of an MMO.

Unstable server connection mentioned which is a given for any new MMORPG. Which if you take game design classes, there is a trend for newer MMOs to release early so they can continue funding the project. Which goes to show about a lot of the issues that happened in the game now. Like the guild abolishing exploit. Lag. Optimization Issues. Arena, Guild Events, and Companions arnt available. All because they decided to release early. Due to a lack of funds. Doesnt make the game bad. Just makes the choice to release bad.

" With such a singular focus on grinding, Tree of Savior sometimes displays a real mastery of what can make that grind fun."

Def not a singular focus on grinding… he would know if he experienced it. He didnt even mention much about EXP Cards which is unique in this game to give those as usable rewards instead of straight away. Where you can actually efficiently level through decision and timing.

"Tree of Savior’s biggest grind lies in chipping away all of its flaws just to experience its nostalgic charms."

See here, he made his first character crappy with no little consideration for what his skills do. He pumped his crappiest class skill to 5 without considering at lv1, is this good? Certainly the game is nostalgic because of the character styles and vast class variety. Its def not like Ragnarok other then that. Maybe even some grindy elements. But really alot of games have grind. MapleStory had grind, variety of classes. Tricksters Online had grind and a variety of classes.

He makes a flashy wizard, which are known to be super strong at lower levels. Verified his level brackets.

He didnt get passed rank 3. Which After rank 4-5 is pretty much where the game gets a whole new perspective of content.

He reviewed nothing on the hidden content and unmarket quests. Which is another part of TOS.

He probably did nothing of the adventures journal.

I dunno. It just seemed like something he was told to do. Maybe it wasnt genuine interest in Tree of Savior…

1 Like
#86

Yes?
a new player shouldn’t have to scout the forums and wiki pages to find out that the servers are really unstable, the game is poorly optimized, that Hunter and Sorcerer summons’ AIs were really really bad, that if they don’t pick Peltasta at some point parties won’t want them, etc.

hell, the technical issues shouldn’t even be there in the first place. what’s worse, a new player scouting the forums for hours to learn about all the issues, or going in blindly, learning of them, and then maybe quitting? it certainly won’t take them 100 levels for the latter scenario to happen.

#87

In his defense: it’s his job, he probably had a deadline. Don’t expect much.

1 Like
#88

yea it kind of starting to consider this lol

#89

Like I said, a new player should know what he’s getting into.
Let’s say I like FPS, but ONLY the type of FPS where character progression is permanent and gives some permanent stat/skill bonus, an advantage like planetside 2.
I buy CoD, where progression is in customization, unlocks and weapon types, but not the kind of stat bonus I want.

Can I complain that CoD sucks because it’s not what I like?
Or is it my fault for not researching what I’m throwing my time/money at?

#90

Your scenario doesn’t really compare in any way to that reviewer’s situation. he didn’t go into ToS expecting TERA. He apparently knew what ToS was when going in, but didn’t like how things were handled, technically and design-wise.

A closer analogy would be to say that, in CoD, you see a cool gun that you want, and its stats don’t look too bad when compared to the others. and if you unlock it, you have no way of going back or unlocking other guns. after 100 hours you get it, and when you use it, it actually turns out it has horrible spread or rate of fire that isn’t mentioned anywhere in the game except for a wiki, and these other guns are much better. so you’re either stuck with that forever, or you restart.

now take that one awful gun and make it 40% of the guns in the game. that is called a design flaw. you shouldn’t have to read a wiki to know to stick to the strong meta or be literally worthless for the rest of your time playing. it can definitely be fixed, as I hope it will in ToS’ case, but it will definitely suck for whoever was involved, and through no fault of their own, so they reserve total right to complain about it if they want.

#91

Did he know what to expect, really?
Take a look at this post that points out many flaws on the review: PC Gamer Review: 58/100 - "One nostalgia trip you might want to skip"

I beg to differ.

#92

People should stop comparing this game with RO. The only in common is the art style in some degree.

IMC was founded in 2003. RO was released in 2002 (in 2003 the last update was WOE and Juno I think). Hakkyu Kim and the others devs who created this game just were the lead developers of the original RO. Also, even RO was caught by the “MMO Standard” and dropped a lot of the original things in renewal.

#93

why is the rating soo high… did that guy even play the game, in current state.:cold_sweat:

#94

[quote=“Eter_Nale, post:83, topic:260782, full:true”] every class is viable, i think its just about preferences.
[/quote]

Nope, the game is poorly balanced atm, grind to lvl 220+ then you will understand

It will be true when the game get more contents and balance update. But right now it isn’t.

look at most crafting classes, especially Alchemist, most of them stop at lvl 220, they don’t have much useful skills for combat scenarios.

#95

tldr; on topic: it’s just one of the many comprehensive reviews out there, including those in steam. reviews won’t matter if there are people who still want to play the game. author took a stand it’s up to the readers to agree/disagree, doesn’t change the fact that ToS is NOT the best rated/critically acclaimed MMORPG currently available on the market, yet hundreds still pay for the game.
just as OP said, author went in the game as an average gamer, he didn’t seem to have tried CBT so obviously he didn’t know any better. the constant bugs/glitches/lag didn’t help, and that was sad, end of story.

1 Like
#96

I won’t stop.

Construtive feedback is plain different from brats whinning why to grind in a grindy game.

I would say YOU to stop rotulating people as white knights. I’m not doing such a thing, and if you read carefully, what i’m talking is exactly like this:

1- Play the game for ■■■■■ sake
2- Did you enjoy? Give your construtive feedback.
3- Did’nt you enjoy? Give your constructive feedback.
4- Still didn’t enjoy and nothing happened? Quit, nobody is forcing you to play.
5- Move on, try the next one.

Whinning all the time won’t help anything, neither make IMC prioritise stuff better. I’m a programmer, and what the brats needs to learn is:

1- You’re not smarter than the developers.
2- Developers aren’t dumb.

You might ask, why in hell some bad decisions or clear mistakes do happen?

First, people need to understand that IMC is NOT a big game developer. They’re just a small company, taking high risks with huge projects.

With that said, with such a huge game like Tree of Savior, it’s easy to lose track of something.

I find it disrespectful to call IMC a bunch of lazy people that is ignoring the Forums. Didn’t you guys ever considered they might be all focused on getting stuff done?

IMC, as a small company, needs guidance, not constant, brat like whinning.

Rest assured, they know that their game is NOT optmized, they know that their game have huge aumont of bugs, they know their game has lots of server instability, also, they know that they policies aren’t the best ones.

I find it quite funny to see people entitled to considers themselves above the designers, programmers, artists, etc.

If anyone doesn’t have anything better to say: Server is lagging, game is broken, game lacks optmization and the game is bad - be honest, taste a bit of reality check, you’re being just rendudant as everyone else.

I bet what IMC needs is anything that could guide them to solve things.

Why the game lacks optmizations? What could be done to solve this? What tecnology and technique could be applied to boost the game performance?

Why their servers are instable? What could be done in order to improve that? Which areas, maps, channels that are suffering the most?

Why their policies are wrong, how you think it might affect the game sales, and what could be done to make the TP shop fair to everyone?

See? You guys could do it better. What’s the use of brats constantly repeating themselves:

Pay2Win, Game is broken, unbalanced, cashgrab, servers sucks, grinding is bad in a grinding game, etc.

To me it sounds like useless whinning that won’t get you, neither IMC, anywhere.

Don’t expect IMC giving priority to whinning. I bet they would do for constructive feedback, that could make them think twice while doing something again, and help them to find the better solution faster.

And, like i’ve said - if you feel entitled to bash a small company like IMC, just feel entitle to quit and play something much better, from much bigger companies. I’m sure there are a crapton of good games out there.

They’re not working for free. Actually, good developers cost a lot of money, yet people thinks that the game should be free, easy, casual as ■■■■.
If you like the concept of the game and want the to see if IMC will deliver the potential of the game, give them a chance, support them and be patient. If not, just go away an let them fail for being just another developer that gives zero ■■■■■ for the players and their supporters.

6 Likes
#97

IMC seems to give zero ■■■■■ as well, considering they have ~0 income at the moment by neglecting to open up TP sales.

#98

Tree of Savior itself is not that bad, but the way it’s being executed is. Most of the problems that people are complaining about could be addressed better. This game has great potential.

I remember when Elder Scrolls Online first came out 2 years ago and it was horrible. But the devs fixed almost everything that people hated and now the game is great. There’s also practically no gold sellers because nearly all the gold sinks are things you can also optionally buy in the cash shop.

#99

Well we will see most mmos fail because the patience for a not working product is thin …
A lot of game with potential …