Tree of Savior Forum

Paladin: Restoration vs Resist Elements

Class and Rank Cleric
#6

Pretty sure its not especially if they don’t know about the heal tile nerf. They thought about their build they just need a few tweaks if they feel like it. With that attitude not only do you discourage people in general it also discourages people to think outside of what the majority deem to be the “perfect” build forcing everyone to take the same builds over and over. Experimentation will sadly be frowned upon when what seems to work on paper isn’t always what works in practice.

I like that you are trying to help people with your guides and all but don’t be freaking elitist about it man.

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#7

Thanks guys, I did some changes, but I have some questions.

About Divine Might, it raises skill level by 1. But will it work if I already have the skill at maximum level ?

Is Fade good for and STR build ?

About Dievdiby skills. Is it good getting the three C1 stautes ? Or should I replace one with Carve ?

And about Plague Doctor skills. What are good for a Melee build ?

Obs.: For some reason it doesn’t show here, but I choose Cleric C2, Dievdirby and Plague Doctor now.

#8

Wurmheart gets asked a lot about stuff. You gotta remember his position where he’s the goto guy for info about clerics. Just giving a heads up, his words weren’t groundless either. Cut him some slack.

#9

It’s more so that this class system is very unforgiving tbh.

Experimentation can indeed lead to interesting new perspectives, but also to results that are far more disappointing then you thought was possible.

I tried out a priest3/sadhu/druid in icbt2 myself.
I found out the hard way that priests lack of skill dmg is horrible for int caster builds. That sadhu ignores most buffs entirely, that auto attacking enemies till r7 is bloody frustrating. etc etc.

Most people here are giving advice because we don’t want others to do the same, to waste weeks if not more on a character they’ll likely delete the second it hits max rank.

Ow and i’m just quite blunt in how i speak or address people.
I guess that factors in as well.

For most skills yes, but i haven’t been able to verify if boosts lvl 5 capped skills like resurrection or bloodletting.

Not sure what you mean with threat, agro maybe?

And you will want carve as a paladin since you only have 2 other phys dmg skills, so max it and ignore Zemyna or Vakarine. (your sp regen is already quite good due to restoration, and vakarine’s effect can be copied with ingame consumable warp scrolls)

From plague doctor healing factor is a must due to it’s insane healing power, bloodletting maxed is also recommended. Which you already got anyway.
Aside of that it’s up to you.
Incinerate is nice dmg even on a str build and probably the better option.
But later on you might want more anti condition skills then just bloodletting. Pandemic can be decent in groups perhaps.

I also need to see if conversion actually works in earth tower, if it does it might be quite good there. (if it doesn’t cause bugs ofc)

And you might to want take 3 points out of safety zone and put them into deprotected zone. Since safety zone’s c2 attribute gives a ton of block as well.

Maybe 1 into cure for early leveling rank 1 condition removal.

Everything else looks good, weird that the forum acts up though.

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#10

Thanks for your answers man.

Lol, I said Threat, I mean Fade.

Is Fade good for a STR build ?

If not, I’m gonna use those ponts on Deprotected Zone, like you said.

#11

Fade is quite good for pve as it’s a party wide anti agro skill. But it does end when you attack.
But for pvp it doesn’t seem to anything yet.

putting only 1 point into fade is fine though, i doubt you’ll use it’s full duration that often on a str build.

#12

I’m sorry but I agree with @Raven. You are discouraging creativity and you didn’t give any validation for why something is bad about a build.

But instead you’ve come up with a list of information that is mostly incorrect. Just because you read the forum doesn’t mean you know what you are talking about either. You shouldn’t be giving advice on Paladin builds if you haven’t got any experience with the class. Simple as that.

Do you actually have any basis for this stat distribution? Not to mention very vague with no description as to why you’ve shared this stat allocation.

This really isn’t that hard. GET BOTH.

15 Resist Elements
3 Restoration

About Restoration:

  • Level 1 Restoration applies a hidden bonus to your heal tiles and mass heal in the calculation itself. Any bonus from INT also applies this additional bonus. This is because heal scales with INT and INT is added directly into the tooltip.

  • Additional points in Restoration apply a flat bonus to any healing effects equal to the skill level.

Please do not jump to your own conclusions then since you haven’t even played Paladin. :stuck_out_tongue:

@lalakoboldslayer1 you’ve just been played. :wink:

The only issue with going Paladin in your build is picking it before Priest c3. PvP doesn’t even exist on International. When rank 8 is available you’ll have more options to pick and choose.

Priest c3 is a full-support and the key is to build your character with that in mind. You will be spending a lot of time healing and buffing.

It is the best support in the game for PvP and PvE. Usually most people will pick Cleric c2 at rank 5 or 6. If you are picking Paladin instead you’ll be invaluable to parties in high level dungeons and field maps because of Barrier.

Restoration will buff your healing potential with your 5 heal tiles and mass heal by A LOT. And Int provides a significant increase to your mass heal and heal tiles.

Priest c3 > Paladin c3 IS viable.

Priest c2 does not have the best results, you don’t have stone skin, you only have level 5 mass heal and revive so either commit to Priest c3 > Paladin c3 in your build. Or don’t go for Priest at all.

If you want same additional help I can give you tips on skill allocation, gear and stats.

Well good luck.

I apologize for continuing this thread. I didn’t realise it was over a month ago from the last post, I contemplated deleting my post a couple of times. But felt that someone might learn something, so I left it as is.

Sorry again!

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#13

I appreciate you having the patience to give some insight on the matter.

I made a build on tosbase called “Monk - After skill reset”
That means after level to monk C3, I took all the flat bonus buffs(Sacrament and Blessing) and realocated to % based ones so it can scale better. The problem is, it doesn’t help with DPS but it’ll sure get a lot of survival for me and my party.

After reading what you wrote I thought maybe I can do something similar with Paladin ?
I understand that Paladin is more defensive based than Monk, so it’ll have even less DPS, and my intent is to make a STR based Paladin character. I’m guessing that this isn’t viable.

Should I go Monk then ?

#14

Have you already started your character, if so:

what is your current level?
what is your current class path?
what skill distribution are you going for, a tosbase link would help?

As a Cleric you will always be a healer to your party members, it’s a hard life for a dps monk because you’ll often be criticised for providing bad heal support or for knocking enemies around.

However there are plenty of options if you are willing to consider them, check the FAQ and scroll down to the Dievdirby and Monk (STR) section. You could also take a look at the Priest Paladin Build for more info on stat and skill allocation.

Or read through it carefully. Especially about stats. PvP and PvE require very different setups. Or rather, there’s a little extra complexity for PvP and nothing is really set in stone yet until after balancing once they’ve introduced Battle League.

#15

Your selection is fine, ignore those who say to get Cleric 2 or whatever else. What you have is a popular build except for the last circle, you wanna replace that with Plague Doctor.

I play atm a C>P2>PLD3>PD. I use a Sword and Arde Dagger. I Gem for Crit rate, and cap my Con to 40, SPR to 25, and basically do per 10 lvs, 4 strength, 6 Dex. I constantly keep Monstrance up because of that Dex bonus and thanks to P2W accessory scroll enchants boosting my crit rate up another 20. I get crits often, im able to buff, debuff, tank hits, throw out heals, do good damage, everything. I am pretty much a DPS Support and can assist the heal-bot specced cleric in any group.

A lot of groups love this type of Paladin. That’s why so many is going for this particular build. Its also very viable in PVP due to how OP PD is even after nerfs thanks to beak mask, bloodletting, their regenerative heal, ability to spread debuffs to a lot of targets, etc. Hard to kill this type of build in PVP due to all the healing, buffs, the revive, and such.

Seen a lot of paladins value strength too much over Dex when you have Monstrance from Priest tree. Gear for crit rate, gem for crit rate, get dex to around 200ish and strength after bonus, rank bonus and gear to around 230+ and you will be powerful.

Also keep in mind, reason why you don’t need to bother with C2 cleric is because of +skill items, once you can obtain them, they will help you in getting those needed skill ranks.

Really depends on what you wanna do. If you wanna be a heal-bot, go for Int and low dex. However, int doesn’t influence your heals very much unless you get ALOT of it. Restoration will help you out tremendously though. But you don’t have to go Priest 3, be a waste compared to getting Plague Doctor. Least till the 8th circle comes out would you then want Priest 3.

Paladin Build Compendium and FAQ [Updated 29/04/2016]
#16

I didn’t start yet.

I’m thinking about going Cleric C3-Paladin C3-Plague Doctor.
It should provide all the heals needed for the party with 16 tiles of healing.

#17

You’ll want to read up all the discussion and the thread I linked as it’s very informative. Should help you a bunch.

#18

Heh, we have a similar build but mine ends with Kabbalist. Yeah, 32 Heal tiles per cooldown ain’t no joke. We’re the very definition of healbots.

#19

I’m well aware of what you think, and why you think as such.
Sadly it has more to do with your insanely low standards and failures to understand what others are saying then anything else.

Occasionally you’re even right, but your track record makes you simply untrustworthy and outright detrimental.

And i’d like to remind you of this thread: Paladin Feedback - NO BS Theorycrafting

Which is also why i now do have a int paladin(Link), and was trying to find out if more builds were indeed viable as well as work towards document of how each skill works.

None the less:

  • restoration does not double healing, the exact mechanic requires more testing and seems wildly different per stat build. 200-800 range found though.
  • restoration does not affect a potion’s initial healing, but does grant a 30% boost to the regen ticks afterwards. (without 336 initial & 67 tick, With 336 initial & 87 tick.)
  • resto’s hp recovery value, and thus higher skill levels, do not increase heal’s healing potential. (Or that of potions for that matter.)
  • Conversion % chance is based on a enemy’'s health, and it does not affect elite mobs.
  • Conversion bugs out a lot causing converted allies to get stuck in place or despawn entirely.
  • Resist Elements only debuffs enemies upon casting.

And i’ll be more thorough once i get to paladin3 and do more testing.

That was a direct jab at:

Which as we said, was debunked several times already. Just check my paladin link above.

Statwise for paladins:

  • Int provides a nice bonus to healing, but frankly it’s usually more in the overkill category. Barrier’s dmg attribute dunno.
  • Spr, why? only barrier scales properly with it. And we know teams are already clearing ET without that combo. Better of picking classes that offer more to spr builds imo, even if that’s pretty much priest/chap only atm.
  • Con, health yes. Always.
  • Dex, aside of you still not noticing the little tidbit about the crit formula, it does scale down with level and thus relatively flatlines. Not a bad investment, esp good in pvp, due to the evasion/accuracy bonuses.
  • Str, scales smite’s attribute, conviction+smite, conversion and scales ever higher due to the +10% rank bonus and regular stat scaling. Also helps punch past defenses better for those weaker skills.

Priest3/paladin3 is viable, it’s just a incredibly stupid option that gains next to no synergies or benefits from going said route.

Priest3 is notorious for how good it is in pvp, paladin3 is notorious for how many of it skills outright do not work in pvp.

Besides due to the restoration x heal combo you’ll simply have better healing as a cleric2/paladin3 combo since it boosts every instance of healing. (10 extra instances vs 2)

stone skin shines in pvp without spr, and is largely eclipsed by barrier in pve as long as you place it properly. It is incredibly hard to find a scenario where you benefit from having both skills at once.

The added dmg from sacrament/blessing also affects your auto atk dmg more then skill dmg. Despite paladin relying far more on skill dmg instead.

And frankly it performs tons worse then it’s counterparts:
A chaplain could go full con, rely on bloodletting for cc prevention and be severely more dangerous and sturdy.

A cleric2/paladin3 can grab plague doctor or kabbalist for pve, using heal factor or ein sof to keep their tank alive much better.

And sturdy builds for battle league aren’t as good atm due to the 1 resurrect cap per match.

Ow and keep in mind cleric2 or less optimally priest3 is recommended for Earth Tower, nobody cares about how well your healing performs in the easier content…

Especially when at that point people stop using secondary clerics other then dievdirbys to improve their odds at clearing the darn thing.

#20

Ranged attacks. Especially ones that can potentially one-shot you or deal 60~80% of your health.

Mass heal level 10 is 30% health of all players in the party and the flat bonus is decent. You still have 5 x heal tiles. Hanaming gem will indeed add +1 to your heal tiles if needed.

You are underestimating Priest c3 > Paladin c3 apparently. :wink:

As a Priest/Paladin you are a full support. You are providing enough support that missing out on Plague Doctor doesn’t actually matter.

Healing Factor only works on one person and has a fixed duration in PvP that is not increased with skill level. Bloodletting is no where near 100% uptime anymore, leaving you and your whole party vulnerable to CC.

Barrier magic defense (SPR) is relevent to a Priest c3 because you get SPR for cc-resist, mass heal, stone skin, aspergillum (chaplain).

Multihit damage is greatly reduced, so your party won’t get shreaded by pole of agony or icewall + pp combo.

Barrier magic defense is effective against % scaling skills like Meteor.

Resist Elements also helps in that regard, for elemental damage. Also has 19% chance to nullify elemental attacks.

Of course I advise always that they should choose that option if they want to.

However those who like Priest + Paladin skill have a viable class path, and can choose c3 paladin at rank 8 if they intend to play a full support Chaplain.

There is plenty of synergy with Priest c3 and Paladin c3 and was a meta on kTOS. For a good reason man.

Paladin is the much more defensive option than Plague Doctor or Oracle however it’s not the greatest at DPS. How you choose to stat your character doesn’t matter so much. As long as it has synergy with other class ranks and fulfills a certain role by choosing c3 Paladin.

You get 1 phys.attack and magic.attack per level, so enemy defense is actually not as high as you might think. Punching past the defense is already achieved by leveling.

I’ve explained the DEX formula for Cleric in the FAQ since I updated it. You need to have other sources of DEX and Crit Rate for the initial investment to be worth it. Archer gets Swift Step, Priest gets Monstrance, for example. So DEX actually has much better scaling with certain skills.

100 crit rate is needed to even have a chance to crit at high level, that’s with enemies that have 100 crit resistence minimum. an additional 100 crit rate is only +14% chance to crit at level 280, once higher levels are added that scaling will drop off further and you’ll become squishier against magic with a higher investment of DEX.

But Cleric is not very tanky and melee builds will suffer from low CON. All of these factors taken into account, you won’t benefit that much by spreading your Stats too thin into DEX. You are better off with higher CON for PvP and PvE so you can survive longer. It is the best scaling stat.

Archer benefits more from DEX because of Kneeling shot as it also increases your attack and running shot because it amplifies it further.

Also, why try to compete with Archer in DPS when you can focus on keeping buffs active and people alive.

#21

Restoration is not double scaling but applies an additional multiplier in the formula or alters the current formula. However it’s achieved you’ll see double dipping in INT with the Restoration bonus.

No need to be a pushover. The Paladin FAQ is there to be updated, if you are willing to provide some constructive feedback and comments on your build. That would help with making it better. I’ve already linked it above. Maybe once you are Paladin c3. It would be appreciated thanks.

This is a collaborative effort. I just apply what is known about Paladin and help people out with their builds. I’m not saying anything is wrong, you are. Your build is fine too.

#22

As far as I know I never commented in this thread, but for some reason I got notified about it? Can someone sum up what we’re debating here?

#23

Well, it started as I was getting doubts about which one skill I was gonna raise, but it was already answered.

#24

That was my doing. I editted out the quote as it was going off-track (something about you mentioning that restoration scales with the 5% bonus). Just wanted to clear up the issue with going priest c3.

To summarize:

Full-Support Defensive: Priest c3 > Paladin c3

Full-Support Offensive: Priest c3 > Chaplain > Cleric c2 > Plague Doctor

Both of these builds are viable?

#25

I actually did quite a bit of testing and now know how to reliably stop these bugs from occuring. Though its rather annoying to do.

  1. The ai break where the mob just stops doing anything and wanders aimless pretty much only occurs if they have aggro on a mob you just recently converted. Which commonly occurs if you either convert multiple enemies with one conversion, or if you allow your converted minions to fight a mob your about to convert. You pretty much have to ditch your converted mobs by either aggroing them on something else, or by outrunning them to be able to get a decent stack going reliably

  2. If the mobs you try to convert are from a player ambush they will always despawn upon being converted.

Also the whole can’t convert elite mobs is a bit misleading. You can convert many of the late game enemies that have 90k+ health and do 1-3k damage per attack. It seems to just be the enemies with the grey skull with axes that can’t be converted. Which aren’t even consistently stronger than other mobs in the maps past level 200

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