Tree of Savior Forum

P2W Model Prevents People From Playing & Enjoying The Game

… It’s not about winning or losing. It’s a point of view / opinion. i.e. no right or wrong.

What is considered P2W varies between people. But most general communities will consider Stat on Cash shop exclusive items, a P2W feature as it cannot be acquired in game via drop / NPC sales, and can only be acquired with $$$ (hence the Cash Shop Exclusive status). And no just because someone will buy it for $$$ and sell you for Silver doesn’t mean it didn’t require $$$ to be created into existence in the first place.

I agree to your point. I don’t like RNG. It’s a gamble. Nothing else.
But the reason why the gaming companies had to come up with this is because they had to make money. Back in the days, all the online games were subscription based. Now people expect everything to be free and companies somehow need to make money somewhere. I am not saying RNG is a good solution but it’s both gamers and companies that caused it.

10 years ago I was a kid and I couldn’t afford the subscription with measly stipends from my parents. Now I just hope IMC would give me the reason to stuff money in their face without implementing a P2W cash shop.

Don’t get me wrong, I can pay for these P2W crap, but it hurts the community as a whole so I don’t agree with them. In other words I’m looking out for F2P players (i.e. myself 10 years ago :laughing:)

Whatever… P2W or not… It’s just a game. Just try it yourself when it comes out. If you don’t like it, quit. If you like it, play.
Good night :slight_smile:


Is it even confirmed that there will be such a thing in (international) Tree of Savior? If not, why are you making all of these assumptions and riling people up. You also are saying it’s not about winning or losing, but by the count of replies you have made, you are desperately trying to prove others wrong by (if assumed) baseless arguments regarding this game. Stats on cash shop items sounds like something that won’t happen in this game. I very much doubt it and all of this circle jerking is pretty tiresome to read. Regardless of facts, the hypocrisy in your posts is just mind numbing. While saying explicitly in your own post it’s not about right or wrong. I can say for certain that a community wouldn’t need someone like you to represent it. Riling people up when there is a lack of confirmation is just doing the wrong thing.


Token already announced to have +3 move speed. Move speed is considered a stat.

Magic scrolls, I’m not sure. I think it’s still conjecture at this point.

Making judgement calls not by the content of the posts but by the COUNT of the post…? I just happen to have a lot of time right now, so I reply to posts. Why is that bad?

Unfair advantage = anything wich benefits the paying player by far and cannot be obtained in game or only by a redicilous low chance (aka farming 1 month and its for 20 dollar in shop) - agreed

Advantage wich can be obtained by playing the game and on a fair droprate = not unfair

let’s say IMC sells stuff wich can be obtained in game - making this Item worth 1$ for 2 hours of grinding (on average) = fair advantage for paying players - so lets say those magic scrolls are being available in shop - IMC should balance the cost to 1$ per 2 hours of grinding - if people can obtain 1 per hour on average the item shall cost 0,50$ in shop - if people grind 40 hours a week a paying player should be able to catch up by paying 20 Dollar for said items

Unfair advantage: if the item drops once every 20 hours on average but the costs remain the same at 0,50$ per item - only way to balance it is not making the item more expensive but increasing the drop rate of said item so it’s balanced again

80$ a month for a game seems alot for many paying players already (some just throw in money for monthly token) - a few will pay for maybe 1/3 or 1/2 another few part will spend those 80$ to “be on par” with no life farmer - and another special group will spend as much on those until they get whatever they want out of those items on first day - sure theyll have a benefit but its in no way unfair at this point - cause grinder as well as mediocre spender can catch up (i still dont like magic scrolls just using them as an example)


The token isn’t even equipable is it now? I think you know about premium accounts in other MMORPG’s right? I assume it would be the same. Having a “token” slot however would mean there are other ingame tokens that could take a slot so a player should choose between 2 different token. If it’s similar to being premium for 30 days: Many games have that and are still widely played by thousands of people and extremely successful. I don’t see the true deal breaker here for people who aren’t getting a token. Wow, some other dude is running faster than you! And wow he is getting extra EXP! Is that truly pay 2 win, or actually just a system called freemium where you receive small non-game breaking benefits. Think about it.

You reply to posts, but the idea of your replies is to prove others wrong. You say you are not doing that, but there you are. Like I said before, the community does not need someone like you who riles people up. I say this because I’ve read your posts, it’s just you complaining about P2W based only a token that gives you premium benefits in the game. They do not grant bonus damage, free passes to every dungeon or item set early on. THat would be truly P2W. +3 move speed? Something that a mount would give you as well.

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Would appreciate if we stop bashing each other and try to be more constructive. Lately, every post on forum have been going off-topic for the stupidest reasons.

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Whether you can equip it or not, it still gives you that +3 move speed stat over F2P players. I’m not saying the Token is bad, I’m saying the token with the Speed stat on it is bad. Everything else about the token is fine (maybe that trading limitation is not but for the sake of simplicity, w/e).

Quote where I deliberately intended to “prove others wrong”. Sometimes people do not share the same opinion / perspective. All I was doing was defending my opinion / perspective of a problem.

It was a legit question I replied to.

Besides we have already concluded our discussion why are you interjecting it?


You are making out the issue to be way bigger than it really is. In fact, it’s a small hill. You people are also too worried over an existing model implemented in many games. But the fact remains that: It is still NOT known what other items will be available in the cash shop. This excludes: Magic scroll, skill reset potion, premium token.

Founders get a 30 day headstart regardless, and they benefit from the token. Only 50 dollar founders benefit for 60 days, which is a longer period but after that the token is gone. I doubt a majority of the owners of a Token will be max level or maxed out in the end game, though there is no doubt there are people who always accomplish these feats early in the game. People who compare numbers for the sake of “catching up” with others, consider a MMORPG which is an entertainment medium for a variety of people a leaderboard challenge only. Or at least, that’s what’s going on in this thread.


The +3 move speed is not a big deal, and you should try thinking about it in the long term. What makes that +3 move speed so unfair towards people without it? I believe mounts will also give move speed benefits. There might be buffs who give increased move speed. It’s your opinion that you believe +3 move speed will be unfair. The idea of having stats from items not obtainable in game is indeed unfair, I agree with that. But I think that’s why a token will ONLY give you increased exp % and move speed. Will there be items in cash shop that give game breaking stats? I doubt it, that would be real pay 2 win. And still that would only be true if it was realized or confirmed, which is both unknown and very unlikely.

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If the +3 move speed is not that big a deal, it should be a bigger incentive to remove it. Since it will not hurt anyone and has an added benefit of sending a positive message that IMC will do things differently from publi$hers.

Then we have come to an agreement.

For a more in depth discussion you’re welcome to comment in my suggestion thread.

But this is serious business…

Nah. Lets all just play at March 29. Or April for me if they don’t remove the move speed on that token. (See I said it was serious).

we gotta cover all players right? or you wanna say “competitive people got no right to talk about their wants and needs because this game is for fun only”

happened that we discuss it so i threw in some examples on how it might work in the future for all “competitive” parties if theyre f2p or paying players - not claiming it has to run 1:1 this way and that itll work 1:1 to make everyone happy - just an idea

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For my part, I don’t see any problem with the current shop items.
It seems at some point everything will be available in the marketplace if you have enough silver. (token, hats with stats, other?)
So I think it’s more Pay for Convenience. You want to xp faster, get gold faster, you pay. But if you don’t want to spend any money, you can just spend the time to level to max level hunt boss and materials, save up money and buy with silvers those cash-in items if you feel like they are OP… (token, hat or w/e)

As far as i’m concerned, if we’re talking about PvE they can sell even +100000 con items in the item shop if, even without that much of a stat increase, i can still play the game and not be knocked out of parties because i don’t have the stat boost.

The real problem with cash shop exclusives that rise stats will really be when good PvP is put into the game since that item WILL be an extreme pain to those who didn’t spend real money in the shop.

So the solution would just be to have different equips for both PvE and PvP like many other games and restrict the cash shop exclusive item’s usage to PvE keeping in mind that enemies should be killable even without it.

+3 mov speed is not a big deal. You can see it by yourselves, Diev statues does -20 mov speed, Trot gives +20 Mov speed at maximum level. The movement speed also isn’t applicable in PvP arena, it’s just convinient guys… You’re barely faster than regular players.


Granado Espada was published in several regions by different publishers and every single one of them was MASSIVE P2W. I don’t mean the “you’ll level a little slower kind of P2W”, I mean the “you’ll never be competitive unless you’re a heavy spender or nolife this game forever” kind of pay2win.

While some publishers were more of a money grubber than others (like iah), there is nothing a publisher can do about a game whose core was designed to be such a cash grab. Eventually they placed every item related to upgrading in the cash shop, pets with stronger buffs, very significant stat premium costumes, as well as several exp and drop rate boosts, premium areas to level up faster, rare in-game items and overpowered character and stances being sold directly in RNG boxes. Anyone that has played that game will tell you it was very obviously designed to be big a cash grab that only got worse every year. Yes, all of it was tradeable to f2p users, but if you’re okay with bypassing weeks of grinding for a swipe of a credit card then that’s on you. A heavy spender could buy everything you farmed in a month with as little as $30-40.

GE was a shining example as of why you shouldn’t trust this company with your money until results unfold.


All f2p game doing this at some lvl. What you want then to do money from? You want to have onlly one costume and all the rest for cash?
Looks to me you need a p2p game like wow or ff14.
If you want a game where you play for free and have as much as some one that pay then there is no game like this. Or you think imc works for free?
Please tell me why imc need to care for f2p players more that for the paying one.