Tree of Savior Forum

Tokens Should Have NO Stat Bonus

kToS currently have +3 move speed associated with Token. (edit: just realized it was already officially announced for iToS)

This suggestion thread is to formally request to remove this stat from iToS tokens. If the base move speed is considered to be to low after this change, I recommend that everyone should get a +3 bonus to move speed, while having the stat removed from the token.

The reasons are as follows:
Link to TL;DR version below :point_down:

Paying to win

Tokens are exclusive cash shop items. Implementing stat bonus on cash shop items are considered pay-to-win (P2W) by most community standards. P2W are damaging to the game balance as certain communities will have no / limited access to cash shop items.

P2W is extremely discouraging to free players, because you are essentially asking them to overcome an in-game problem (in game competitiveness) with real life limitations (limited funding). In the end, this will hurt the community as a whole because less people will feel inclined to play in a perceived unfair environment, and subsequently leave. Even players that are capable of paying may eventually get tired of constantly paying to remain competitive. The end result is always destruction of the community and eventually the game itself.

If ToS is to be a game that lasts a long time, P2W MUST BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS. Successful and highly profitable game companies today do not implement any P2W feature as they understand the critical nature of this problem.

Please do not expect players to pursue in game competitiveness with real life limitations. It will fail with no exceptions.

Make people want to play the game, and not hate the game.


Setting a bad precedence

Adding a small move speed bonus might seem harmless now, but it is the first step towards introducing more powerful cash shop exclusive items with stat bonuses. If no emphasis / principle has been placed on the importance of cash shop strategy, it becomes too tempting for companies to entice the player base to pay using P2W features.

Make players pay because they feel generous, not because they want to obtain competitive advantages against players who are unable to pay.


It is unneccessary

Implementing stat on a subscription item is highly unnecessary. The move speed bonus is relatively small, having it on the token or not will not impact whether players will pay for it. Segregating the player base using move speed stat confers no benefit to the in game environment or to IMC games. It will however demonstrate that IMC games does not place heavy emphasis on avoiding an unfair cash shop.

People will be buying the token for faster in-game progression (exp, lower silver expenses etc), not for the stat. It will not hurt sales.


While not intended as a threat, this issue is significant enough that it has postponed my decision to purchase an exclusive access. If, and only if, IMC does not implement a P2W cash shop (which includes having move speed stat on the tokens) will I ever financially support ToS. I am determined to see this game become successful, and I will not support any actions that are deemed to be harmful to the game.

I truly hope IMC games take this suggestion in serious consideration, before the game becomes available in March 29.

And to the community, if you support or is against this suggestion, please comment below.

1 Like

I’ll be honest, there is a lot of text and I stopped reading when you started describing why we shouldn’t have P2W (I think that is obvious)…

But I agree with your main point, +3 movement speed should not be part of a Token’s effects.

You can’t just remove bonuses from Tokens without replacing them with something else though, or else less people will buy them.

I suggest replacing it with something like “Earn +10% more Silver from Mobs”.

1 Like

You got solid points.

+3 Mov.Speed is hardly the reason why i’m gonna keep Token bonuses always active. Doesn’t make a difference to me if this buff gets removed.

If the community feels like this buff have a significant impact to the point that it grants an advantage over non-Token players and want to see it removed, i’ll gladly support it’s removal.

I was expecting people who isn’t going to read the wall of text, to read just the heading.

Regardless there’s the TL;DR version:

  • It is Pay-to-Win feature no matter how small the stat bonus is
  • It sets precedence towards more powerful (unbalanced) cash shop items in the future
  • The bonus is unnecessary and will not likely hurt sales

Please comment if you agree or disagree below.

I completely agree with these 2 points.

Not with this point.
Since +3 Movement Speed is P2W, people will buy the Token because of that. Even if it is just a small bonus, it is a clear and obvious bonus over F2Pers, especially if the bonus applies to PvP.

I think if that bonus is going to be removed, it should be replaced with something else, such as +5% more silver from mobs (my original suggestion of 10% is definitely too high), or something else.

But removing it without replacing it with something just devalues Tokens.

(Also, just FYI, I did go back and read through your entire post)

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Making the bonus not apply on PvP would be a good solution as well. I don’t think people care about someone moving slightly faster on the field, they got nothing to lose anyways.

You will take that back when a Token user beats you to that Blue mob because he has +3 Movement Speed. :stuck_out_tongue:

Also people may care about the advantage a +3 Movement Speed bonus would give in the current GvG open world PK system, I wouldn’t, but since that is a form of PvP I could see some people caring.

Limiting it to only PvE is a better solution than we have now, but I still do not think it is perfect.

You got a point there.

Err is +3 speed really that much ?
As long as it does not appear in PVP I’m fine with it
It’s just like free high speed pet or unlimite teleport to all town for premium players in Terra
It doesn’t cause any uproar there, why would it here ?

Addendum:

Currenty both Market and Trading are basically disabled for F2P players without Tokens.
As of now with Token you can:

  • Trade 5 items on market at one time
  • Get only 10% taxes

Without Token:

  • Trade only ONE item on market at one time
  • Get a whopping 30% taxes

You also can’t trade 1:1 without Token at all.

Such system heavily cripples the entire economy and instead of incouraging it punishes players for wanting to Trade.

2 Likes

Unrelated but shake Autentist’s hand I just finished MGQ yesterday, awesome game :smiley:

1 Like

Personally I hate that premium token advantage stuff. On the other hand it is cheaper on me than regulary added cosmetic items. It is IMC’s decision how they do it and I think they will have a stable player base no matter what they do in the beginning.
I think they could reach far higher with lots more players and simple cosmetics as money makers but that would also mean having to manage even more servers something they have problems to begin with. Not gonna happen soon. Maybe one day as the player base starts dying because the token system is not up to date for international standards but then it is usually to late.

Let’s just enjoy the game as long as the hype lasts and move on after it died. With the big founder’s pack one should get about 4 nice months which is plenty of value. :slight_smile:

My suggestion is:
F2Players taxes go down to 20%
and EVERYBODY can trade 1:1. BUT the trade is limited, like 5/day (token users could get a bit more) and is only allowed in TRADING POSTS, inside city/vilages.

this way they could keep an eye on high silver amounts being traded, or high priced items been given away to strangers. and CATCH gold sellers