Tree of Savior Forum

Official Class Feedback Thread Post-Patch

General Discussion
#1

As stated in this news post, IMC is relying on player input during this event to determine specific shortcomings and weakness of certain classes. This patch was about setting a new baseline for numbers and future-proofing classes, now the fine-tuning begins. All of you doomsayers, people WHINING about your classes (rather than just pointing out flaws or weaknesses), and “RIP class” sorts, please hold your tongues. IMC knows that this patch has hit certain players harder than others, and they have already stated they want future class balance to be independent of items or other non-character-specific elements.

So I ask that everyone contribute their feedback on classes they have tested over the course of this patch so that we have a nice, consolidated collection of input for IMC to peruse for future class improvements / balance changes. I implore all the trolls and usual cancer to keep their comments to an absolute minimum. Please post as much information, including subjective experience, regarding classes you have been playing with since patch day as possible. Users are welcome to discuss and even refute claims about classes, but PLEASE KEEP IT CIVIL. If someone says something you do not agree with, provide solid evidence to support your objection.

My hope with this thread is to cut down on the flood of threads in General Discussion with titles like “RIP class” and “Why did this happen?” and direct the conversation about classes in a more constructive, beneficial-to-development direction.

4 Likes
This update made my character really weak
Post-balance patch general balance suggestions
Tree of Savior became really difficult for me
Combat Update Exceeds Expectation
#2

I’ll go ahead and start with my limited observations on Pyromancers.

I’m noticing a lot of complaints coming down the line from Pyromancers, but it seems to me like the playstyle of the class has shifted slightly from “drop everything on the ground and auto attack” to something a bit more active. Flare is actually a potent skill now, and since it triggers off all the persistent damage effects of your other skills (Fire Wall, Fire Pillar, Flame Ground, Fireball Attribute Burn Debuff), it’s another quick surge of damage. This is similar to Cryomancer’s Ice Blast, in a way that makes these two classes feel more about “control and exploitation” of the secondary effects of their spells, rather than just relying on damage.

I cannot speak to the overall damage at higher level content, as I don’t have extensive experience with Pyromancers pre-patch, but I feel like some people are looking at the new Fireball in completely the wrong light. It’s a much more spammable, wider AoE burst of damage compared to being a boss-killer like before. You have plenty of other skills for grinding down bosses, Fireball need not apply. Fireball’s new strength seems to be killing trash and lighting big mobs (including bosses) on fire in order to facilitate Flare.

#3

Warlocks

I have also noticed that the debate between Pole of Agony and Mastema seems to have been settled, as even with fully attributed Pole and Mastema, Pole of Agony isn’t even remotely comparable any more. Before, Pole of Agony did a great deal of burst damage and lasted long enough to make it appealing over Mastema, while Mastema did technically yield more total damage over its long duration, making it more of a sustained damage spell.

Pole of Agony appears to have been significantly nerfed, not even appearing to do the amount of damage the numbers suggest it should, making Mastema much more appealing for boss fights. I’m not sure if this is intended behavior or not, but Pole of Agony isn’t even an appealing option compared to spells from your previous ranks now. Theurge is a given, but it seems likely Pole of Agony is going to become the 1-point skill now and give 10 points over to Mastema.

1 Like
#4

Fencer

Pros:

The damage is good but is more spread out now to other skills

Downtime when Epee is off isn’t bad anymore since the kit doesn’t revolve around the buff

Overheats give more venue for planning on how to spread out your skills which leads to more interesting play

Cons:

Survivability sucks. Low eva and non-scaling def makes life harder.

Epee nerf sucks since I considered it the saving grace of Fencer (IMO, it’s tied closely to the identity of a Fencer esp in regards to pierce damage)

Spread out skills means more movement required which will in turn move the monsters, landing skills especially in mobs is harder right now esp Fencers’ naturally low AOE.

The constant need for pots, buffs, and maint makes farming normal fields really expensive especially if you’re trying to long grind.

Overall, I feel Fencers do well in numbers and mathematics but take them out to the field and you can really feel the pain of playing Fencer.

Still waiting on a Blackhorn recipe, so it might change my opinion. We’ve always known that Fencers were a high maintenance class that required a lot of investing, but given how other classes can dish out as much for much lower…I feel the Fencer population will suffer as most will reroll to Dopp/Murmil/Lancers.

Oh well, we’ll see I guess. Also, I was highly optimistic about farming 315 Leather, but after seeing the drop rates, I feel lolo would be a more realistic option sadly. Problem is, as a Fencer main, having not much investment in other ET-viable characters, it’s like a catch-22…you have to have good gear to get good gear, if not, gear up another class to farm for your Fencer—getting a job to supplement your other job.

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#5

I’m relatively happy with most class changes (even if Corsair3 is still in a pretty fuckt place) so I’ll just speak more generally:

I want to see more skills that scale with attack speed or have crit bonus either as part of the skill or as an attribute to open up more potential for DEX builds, since crit rate stacking is gone. Fencer is a prime example of this - IMO almost every Fencer skill should either scale with attack speed or have a crit chance bonus attached to it, since they’re meant to be the DEX Swordsman. Also some skills don’t scale with attack speed that really blatantly seem like they should, for example Double Weapon Assault or Hoplite’s Stabbing. IMO any autoattack replacement skill (like DWA) or long duration skill (like Stabbing) should scale with attack speed. Maybe skills like Cyclone, Rush and Pouncing as well, though that might make those skills a little crazy in PVP (which shouldn’t be a big concern since PVP balance is still a big issue in general).

Defense reducing/ignoring skills need work. Since the damage formula has changed obviously we can no longer have 100% defense reductions, but right now all defense reductions are an incredibly low/pointless value like 5% and barely effect your damage at all. I think damage vulnerability debuffs were changed to a reasonable level, there’s gotta be a healthy middle ground for defense reductions too.

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#6

Shinobi

katon and mijin needs some rework.

I just dont see any use of these skills outside of PVP and it makes me sad that an r7 hidden class has these. i know for a fact that bunshin makes the class OP in terms of burst but god pls add more utility to the class it feels underwhelming having only kunai as its spammable skill jeez…

[NINJA COMMUNITY] Shinobi Class build, etc. (Updated as of 05/16/2016)
#7

Doppel’s cyclone is bugged. You could only move after a short while and you get stuck at one place afterwards.

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#8

Kabbalist

The skills are quite ok now, with Double Chance having a bigger AoE and Ein Sofs potential rose a lot. The CD times are unchanged, so very user-unfriendly unless he’s got Diev in his build.

Merkabah is still the problem child of Kabbalist.

The attributes of C2 are still very expensive though they are a necessity to make the skill even working (as the chariots get destroyed most of the times because they draw aggro and break in one hit).

The damage is abysmal. Nearly every Cleric skill has a higher DPS-potential/-output than Merkabah, even Rank 1 skills Cure/Heal. For the only attack skill in 2 whole Circles at Rank7&8 it is way too weak to be considered damage at this point. Even my OOB-autoattacks deal that much damage[as one chariot explosion does] in 1-2 seconds…

#9

Highlander:
Crosscut -> Skyliner combo deals a bit too much damage, in my opinion. Crown -> Moulinet is balanced quite well. Vertical Slash is good, but I feel like Skull Swing should be reworked abit.
While it does it’s job, Skull Swing has a 3 second effect and a 40 second cooldown. I feel like it should either match Vertical’s 25 second cooldown (because thats the only skill you have time to use within the 3 seconds anyway, and they’re a two-skill combo), or increase the armor break duration time.

Barbarian:
I feel like either Frenzy or Nature Stacks should be reworked, they somewhat oppose eachother. Frenzy is a nice buff, but requires you to autoattack an enemy 10-20 times. Nature Stacks require you to run around to gather stacks, but lose stacks if you don’t use a skill within 4-9 seconds of your last stack gain/skill use.
So if you get 5 Nature and start to setup Frenzy, by the time you’re done you’ve lost about 2 stacks and have to run around to regain them, shortening Frenzy’s bufftime.

Hoplite:
Maybe make Stabbing faster with Dex’s attack speed. It takes a fortnight to use.

Fletcher:
Lower sp costs a little more, they’re still pretty high for 5 overheat/10cd skill standards.

Dragoon:
This one is abit cumbersome…buff the damage for everything by a little. Lower Dragontooth’s charge time. Speed up Gae Bulg’s animation and maybe have the attack happen closer to the player. Soar is pretty ok (no clue why no one seems to like it though, I prefer it over Serp).

Sorry for textblock!! :tired_face:

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#10

Doppelsoeldner

Not really feeling the love on the changes to Deeds of Valor. I don’t know if C2 and C3 got a buff, though I can certainly see that Cyclone 5 in C1 got a damage and number of hits buff. I suppose it’s nice that Deeds doesn’t need to be stacked from damage taken anymore, though I would nitpick that on theming alone… Still, 13% bonus damage at C1? I don’t feel like this is comparable to the 50% Physical Attack of yore, and think that Deeds could stand to see a 4% or 5% per level scaling. This would put it at 20 or 25%, 40 or 50%, and 60 or 75% at the three circles. Maybe that’s too much, I don’t know. It just doesn’t feel as powerful at it used to, and it was a reckless berserker skill, so it was meant to feel powerful because you were sacrificing survivability to deal significantly more damage.

#11

Pyromancer

I like how Pyromancer is now but not Fireballs.
Pyromancer have many useful offensive skills with a very diverse of combo. I think players to choose carefully and focus on certain combo only. Else you will busy as hell due to low skill factor % to finish off mobs.
Hellbreath + Firepillar
Firepillar/Flameground + Flare
Fireballs zoning and lure mobs
Firewalls + Hellbreath (Push Back)
Firewalls + Firepillar
Enchant Fire is quite bad even at lv15, giving a flat damage on additional line of attack for 200+ and 600+ fire property attack with full INT is quite disappointing.
Enchant fire should also turn normal attack into fire elemental (same like enchant lightning), where teammate can combo with your Hellbreath. Enchant Fire could be INT version of Aspersion from Priest3>Chaplain build?
Pyromancer also should have attribute where all Fire Damage skills (include Enchant Fire Attack) will have 5% chance to apply burn effect for 10s to replace the fireballs attribute, or you can say same as Ignition and it will also stack with Ignition. Burn effect should increase to 50% matk + eatk, and applicable to boss!

Or perhaps, we need to think a better usage for Elemental Attack?
Instead of pure flat attack now

Sorcerer
Well, since IMC highlighted them in Dossier 5, i let him handle and see how.

Thaumaturge
So far I’m very happy with INT/SPR scaling, just that I’m not satisfy with C3 Swell Brain functionality. It now Matk scale with SPR… i’m okay but I also expect special attribute for this skill to make Thauma C3 a badass like increase Buff Count?
And the duration of Swell Left Arms, Swell Right Arm, Swell Brain buff are quite short and you have to constantly recast them.

Enchanter
I just hope Agility get fixed and Enchanter Bomb now 2500 silvers for 10 bombs not 1 only now, of course with larger AoE.
Enchant Lightning at lv5, well its C1 i expect special attribute at C2.
And, since they mention Rank7-8 class is off priority, i also don’t comment much first.

#12

Dex (and Frenzy’s own speed buff) do alleviate the problem quite a bit though. Less time spent stacking frenzy, less time wasted on Wild Nature. And you can always throw in a Cleave or something before you reach 10 Frenzy stacks if you’re afraid Wild will decrease.

My thoughts in general:

Barbarian

  • All skills are reasonably powerful or have very beneficial effects. Embowel’s insane stun duration, Helm’s quick low stun for Cleave, Cleave’s Crit + Slash bonus, Seism’s insane damage potential with Wild Nature, Wild Nature bonuses in general, Giant Swing is a legitimate nuke, Pouncing still as great a Concentrate target as ever, and Warcry extending EVERY debuff you applied; not just barbarian ones. Not a single skill in the entire class’s skill set is bad or useless. Even stomping kick is pretty decent, being the technically second best DPS skill after Seism, though it still suffers from awkward usage.
  • Speaking of which; Giant Swing is actually hitting mobs you swing the grabbed mob into, not only where the mob lands. I have yet to get a proper test on a boss like Golem but at the right distance you should be able to hit it 9 times with the swing, as long as someone else keeps aggro and you have a minion to grab. I’ve killed a quest boss like that with just 3 swings hitting into it.

Fencer

  • RIP Crit rate ofc. Epee is just a fancy ok skill now that sometimes helps but not reliably. Oh well. Everything else is really solid though, aside from the usual ‘Fencer’s AoE sucks’ issues. Esquive could use a lower cooldown and longer evasion buff duration though…
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#13

totally agree with this DoV should put doppel’'s one put foot on the grave however it doesnt seem like it , its too weak the trade off is not bad but at lvl 15(doppel 3) +33 /-19?, hope imc can at least make it +50 /-35

#14

Thaumas getting 2.2x more damage on shrunken enemies is awesome

Dex and evocation are still whack. Salaimon is super bad.

#15

In regards to Pyros, I’ll copy my comment from reddit since I see lots of other pyro-players saying the class is “dead” (especially ingame):

I have 4 Pyros and love playing all of them post-patch. (a chrono3kino3 with just C1, a thauma3 with C3, a cryo3/sage with C3, and even an ultimate elementalist shitbuild of Cryo2Pyro2Ele3 that I’m just having a huge blast with right now and might actually keep with that build LOL)

In fact, it was before the patch when I felt uneasy and ashamed with the absurd damage I was dealing with barely any effort…

Agny simply got the nerf it needed, I never understood why they put it in in the state it was…
Also, one skill everyone here seems to be forgetting, Enchant Fire now scales off of your INT. It’s not mindblowing, but it’s something :DD

EDIT: just realized, out of all the Pyros I’ve made before, the one combo I never touched was Pyro+Linker, which is the only case with serious loss here, so maybe that’s why I don’t feel like “pyro is ded” lol

#16

Chaplain:
Overall the priest-chaplain build feels well thought through and organized. They are fun.
I do feel, however, that Blessing scaling the way it does with spirit is a problem.

  1. It’s a newbie trap. The scaling causes Blessing to get really strong early on, and fall off only later. This already fools people into thinking that this kind of build is a really strong DPS build. These people will likely end up burned once their gear gets better, and complain that the class doesn’t scale. I already see people recommending this as the strongest cleric DPS build based on level 250 performance. It’s really not healthy for the class.
  2. It doesn’t scale as well. Since Blessing scales with spirit, and there is only a limited way of getting spirit, you can’t effectively increase it after it plateaued. You can get solmiki gear for some boost, yes, but that’s about it. In fact, the biggest increase to it at high level is a cash shop only item that is also time limited - the spirit bracelets. Not good, and makes it unfun once you realize how few pieces of gear you actually can get to improve your character.

I feel there would be a solution that’d make the thing scale in a more reasonable way. Simply make it dependent on weapon stat of the receiver. This would turn blessing into a damage multiplier for every skill, and would be equally relevant at all levels/gear, without being too powerful early on.
Something like "Blessing adds (Skill level / 2)% damage to a hit for X hits)

Miko:
Feels about right, but clap should either be fixed or clarified. Right now it does not work on several skills that it should work on according to its description.

#17

Exactly.
I’ve never made a linker so IDGAF
Pyro c3 Sorc since ICBT2.

And I’m full SPR so my Damage is even lower.
Still soloing these HG’s no problem with a flipping Malidoom staff

#18

Sadhu’s buffs

-Possesion’s area of effect have been at least doubled.
-Possession is not interrupted by everythign aymore. Only someskills interupts it now.
-Astral body explosion now deals dmg! (A lot of it)

Out of body deals similar dmg then it was before. I have not tested it, but you should be able to transmit prana in your clone now.

#19

Paladin
Overall class is still the same, except for barrier. Still need to test further.

  1. Smite: Damage is still pretty the same. Had a full dex pally before the patch and could almost hit 100% crits. The only downside now is that if you go full dex you’ll miss a lot.

  2. Restoration: Skill didn’t suffer any change and it still not worth. HP Recovery aura was pretty lame unless you went Aukuras+food combo. Now, all player have a larger HP pool and skill stats remain the same. Lamer than before then.

  3. Resist Elements: Need to test further, but with damage balance it seems promising, since it offer % reduction.

  4. Conversion: Didn’t test but it seems the same

  5. Turn Undead: Need to test further, but overall seems the same. Don’t know if they buffed/nerf the chance of hking mobs.

  6. Barrier: This is the new deal. Go for it, barrier shines. It now scales with player’s mdef (formula uses player’s mdef to determine final barrier mdef). It also will receive an attribute that enlarges it area.

  7. Conviction: Damage got buffed a little bit.Great combo with Inq God Smash.

#20

Looks like pelt took a significant nerf with the manual block redesign. It makes it so you have to wait 3-5 seconds until you can use it again which is a significant nerf in both PvE and PvP. And also you don’t have the 18% evasion bonus from guardian buff anymore, it’s a flat 150 more evasion which will get the worse the better your equips get.

Pelt c1 used to be one of the best designed swordsman classes, now it may just be among the worst designed.