Stop fixing on SP consumption at all.
The problem is the gap between new players and veteran players, rebuild have made wider. Its not the SP problem, its the problem that people without trans late game gear dont do any damage. Having not enough SP is a consequence, not the reason.
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Oh, I 100% agree with you on that, I’ve been saying that it depends on class and gear since my first post.
But this topic is about SP consumption and I reckon that without proper gear its management is really tedious.
You know, sometimes sympathizing with players having problems instead of telling them to sit on a bonfire or roll an alchemist helps.
A thing that I noticed the very first day trying to do saalus with an alt with a +16 trans 0 primus weapon, hence I said “hit like a wet noodle”.
Edit: let me add, that’s why I said that 1313 more atk is abyssal, it could make the difference between dealing damage or not.
Yeah.
But fixing on SP consumption rates can lead to (not that I believe that whining on this forum can led to any changes, due to iToS being just a localization and all decisions are made on kToS) simple SP costs fix. And that will not change the core problem - undergeared players would still struggle to kill anything, its just that they would not have to spam SP pots every 30 seconds.
Edit: let me add, that’s why I said that 1313 more atk is abyssal, it could make the difference between dealing damage or not.
I have a feeling that the difference begins after 4-5k difference now, but I may be wrong.
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And I agree again with you, but I think that everything should be toned down, not toned up further, so a little tweaking of SP consumption would make sense.
They’re not really good at balancing the game, every time they try, they fail miserably so it would be wiser to opt for a tone down.
Someone in another thread said that he wasn’t dealing damage in ET with 9k+ atk and started dealing decent damage with 10.9k.
1000 attack may seem small, but every bit adds up and may make the difference.
Someone in another thread said that he wasn’t dealing damage in ET with 9k+ atk and started dealing decent damage with 10.9k.
1000 attack may seem small, but every bit adds up and may make the difference.
Hooo. Thats amazing and not very self-explanatory. Like… why??
I don’t know, I was trying to find the thread but I found another with similar issues:
Edit: my bad, the post was about Gliehel Memorial. (even worse, from my pov, since it’s a field map)
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You acknowledge that you can avoid using PES for SP conservation, but then say to play with PES on and you’ll see SP issues.
PES specifically isn’t an SP issue. It’s a skill issue. It uses twice as much SP as pre rebuild and does like 75% less damage than before. This isn’t an great example for the “SP usage issue”. It’s an example for how not all classes are tuned properly and skills/SFRs are not great. Which I have talked about in multiple threads that those are the items the devs should be focusing on.
I’m not saying get good or quit, look at all of the examples and suggestions in this thread outside of buy potions. There are multitudes of way to either conserve sp or not have these sp issues everyones talking about. I’m more inclined to think that people are just spamming skills like they are pre rebuild, or just not understanding game mechanics like using costly aoe skills to kill single mobs.
Everyone says its bad at low levels but I’ve been leveling an alt scout, and its at level 124 and I have yet to experience any of these issues.
What part of this you missed?
And you keep proving my point by saying these things: SP management is tedious with some classes and/or if you don’t have good gear.
You can read the discussion between me and @nfprivaron to understand why it happens, but it’s OT here.
I think I know what you’re trying to say, but if it uses twice as much SP while dealing less damage, wouldn’t the problem still be an SP issue to an extent? After all, we’re saying the SP cost doesn’t match the damage of the skill. If the skill dealt the same damage but cost 1 SP (theoretical scenario) then people would claim it was decent damage for practically no upkeep cost. Similarly, if the skill dealt as much as a Sonic Strike but consumed like 2000 SP per second (extremely exaggerated and not that great of an example, I know) then people would be fine with it, just like they were with Shadowmancer dealing huge amounts of damage for huge amounts of SP pre-re:Build. They’d complain about the skill having little practicality sure, but they’d recognize that it’s supposed to be used for very short periods of time now.
It’s more prominent with certain classes, just like balancing issues are more prominent with certain classes. On my BM and Alchemist I usually forget to even activate pots until I’ve run out of mana like 5 minutes after the start of battle, but my Musketeer has to drink a mana pot off CD or run out of SP shortly after. Which brings me to my second point:
Certain classes are designed for skill spam. My musketeer actually has just a tad bit more SP consumption post-re:build than it did before, because I usually take full advantage of my CD reset skill to burst out all of my high-damage skills. You can choose not to do this of course, but the skill is there. It makes more sense to take advantage of it than finish a full rotation, find one or more of your skills is almost off CD, then use the CD reset anyways. In other words, I’m being incentivized to skill spam. Another example would be Oracle. Oracle’s Death goes off CD once the mob is killed. In Challenge Mode you can practically spam the skill non-stop with the volume of mobs constantly being killed. You can choose not to use it as much of course, and you should be smart about using it (don’t spam it on a bunch of mobs you just Death Sentence’d), but your average party won’t thank you for it. Instead the average party will be super grateful if instead you chug down SP pots and other things to spam Death Sentence on every single mob you see because that way you’ll have made the run go faster.
I know you’re probably using this just as a random example, but even ignoring the fact that mobs tend to come in packs in this game most classes have invested their skill and attribute points into mobbing skills because those are the skills you need for raids and CM. Hence it makes no sense for a Wizard to spam level 1, 0 attribute Energy Bolt when they could just use their level 5, attribute 50 Magic Missile. There’s also the fact that players with poor gear will take significantly longer to take down a mob, which extends their SP usage and makes SP management problems more noticeable. Players should be rewarded for investing in their gear, but it’s not fair if well-geared players claim there is no SP management problem because they’re not as affected by it.
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A crappy skill proves your point that sp usage is insane? There’s a combination of things why people don’t use PES as often as before because its a crap skill in rebuild because of how trash mobs are scaling now, it scales off of your SS which we’re already having skill point issues maxing it, and it has horrible SFR. The current cost of it isn’t why people are shying away from it, if they fixed/tuned these other issues, people will be gladly to use it.
I still dont understand how you can keep missing the part that PES doesn’t have a SP problem, it horribly designed in rebuild.
You realize games change over time and mechanics and things change in games or meta things come out. Before, the developers thought skill spamming was all there is to it and resource management was not important. But with the balance, attack, defense, and hp changes, making resource management an actual mechanic in the game is an important aspect now. Things change, learn to adapt.
See above for the reasons for PES that are not an SP issue.
I play both a ranger-falc-merg and musk-falc-piper. The only time I actually use many pots is on velc and cm7 and raids for my musket. I understand you’re saying take advantage of reset skill and burst…but you realize how easy cms are nowadays and how quick mobs and the boss dies. You don’t need to spam everything.
Yeah I threw this one out as an random example. I don’t think people are saying there is no sp management problem, its that now we actually have to sp manage. I remember pre rebuild I spammed all my skills, having 1 pointers in everything to fill OH gaps. And you replenish so fast with potions, it’s a different game now and outside a few niche spots (Bernice) I don’t think you need to be piano’ing your keyboard to play this game.
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You still don’t get it, do you?
It doesn’t matter if the skill is crappy or not, it matters that using it drains your SP.
A new player that doesn’t read the forums doesn’t know about it, reads the description, tries to use it thinking “wow, my hawk actually can attack on her own, cool” and sees all his SP gone in a few seconds.
That player will eventually get frustrated and led to quit.
If that skill didn’t have that stupid SP cost, many would still use it.
Yes, it’s bad design but you are delusional if you want to deny that SP consumption of that skill is absurd.
The same SP drainage issue comes, as @nfprivaron said, with end game content and not having good gear with other classes too.
Yes and I’m saying, like many others, it changed for the bad, but you seem to have comprehension problems at this point.
There we go, get good or leave. I don’t even have SP problems, but I can understand why some people complain.
You just want to drive them towards the “quit” door.
The problem with PES is not that it uses 99 SP every 5 seconds, it’s that it uses the SP even if you’re not actually attacking anything. So you have to toggle it on and off constantly. Basically you’ll only put it on for bosses just for the blinding effect if you don’t want to be sucked dry by it.
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I think its silly, once im done casting all my buffs, half my SP bar is gone, and thats before countdown at 330 dungeon is done and lets us kill the mosnters (rip 2k SP)
The very least IMC should do is increase buff duration to 30 minutes/1 hour, (only for buffs that has 100% uptime anyway that is) Example Free step, 5 min duration, 1 min colldown, costs almsot 200 sp per cast.
Now imagine a new player that doesn’t have good gear having to use more than one rotation to kill a pack of mobs while farming or doing CM.
The SP costs for some skills are stupidly high, but SP draining it’s also (and principally for most classes) a consequence of lack of good gear with high trans.
The usual 2/3 people here suggesting tedious workarounds can’t or don’t care to look beyond their small garden.
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Ok, after equipping (almost properly) my main characters i gotta say the SP is manageable.
1 - Assassin - Shinobi - Enchanter: has a good AA so it leaves plenty of time to potions reset CD. Also it doesn’t spam skills like crazy. Shinobi is kinda lacking right now so it is only usable to burst damage into boss.
2 - Outlaw - Corsair - Linker: great AoE skills but high CDs. It has some time walking around and positioning to do so it can maintain SP usage on check.
3 - Cryo - Kino - Pyro: she is thirsty BUT has great CC. CC means time, time means more SP pot to use. She is the one that uses the most sp pots of all my characters. It is tricky, she uses a lot of pots but it is worthy. This is my favorite build so far.
4 - Oracle - Druid - Sadhu: This build has HUGE sp usage, but Arcane Energy makes up for it. You can use all buffs, debuffs plus some damage burst and restore mana to it’s original point, it’s just great. It just needs some practice to use. I rarely use mana pots with this one.
Overall i think SP usage is high, yes. But we can manage it. The one thing that is HORRIBLE is SP regen. Lord have mercy! Why even bother having this stat in the game if it is that bad? Wizards should have base mana regen super high as they are the casters. On that note Swordman class should have higher HP regen as well. The other classes falling in between wiz and sword.
This awful regen we have should apply while out of combat, period. When on rest mode it doubles or something.
I don’t swear it doesn’t exist. I am glad that IMC stuck to their guns and didn’t nerf saalus due to people like you who can’t adjust to new content, so they whine about it instead. I hope they don’t take a different stance on basic SP management.
You keep parroting this. When I posted that topic the population was in a tailspin because we needed content. Keep harping on it though as some absolute.
Perhaps you should explain to the people in this thread why you don’t have SP problems (as we have been this entire time) so that the whiners can learn.
Your fiasco deserves to be remembered. Until balance patch, rushed as you wished, the game had not less than ~3k players average, after it kept “overachieving” going as low as 1.2k.
You made deaf ears to everyone that told you that rushing a patch w/o proper QA would have lead to bugs and problems of all sort and now you’re doing the same mistake but you’re too stubborn to acknowledge it.
Because I have gears where needed and avoided heavy SP draining classes on less equipped alts, like I already did on balance patch.
This problem is nothing new for old players, but I reckon that new players may suffer it.
The only thing you do is to tell them “get good or leave” (summing up your tedious workarounds).
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You are being accused of being a toxic troll because you were being a toxic troll. Your tune has slightly changed throughout this thread to not be as accusing and damning, so kudos for that.
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Such a fiasco that only you remember it and are using it as a point to attack me. Grats.
You reckon incorrectly. Look at pokart’s video, this whole thread is built on a foundation of incorrect information and concern trolling. I plan to make a level 1 soon without any help from my mains after Boruto calms down, I would recommend you do the same.
I have good memory mr. “overachiever” and the 1.2k CCU, final result of the balance patch, is something that everyone has noticed.
That’s how thoroughly you think before suggesting something.
Keep going Remiri, we have been there already. Read the posts of @nfprivaron, he has got the point correctly, you and your 2 cohorts can’t see beyond your noses.
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