They were easy to farm because the percentage was high, not because of the system
just imagine now, that all items on tos will be as hard as the cards.
Sorry did i say this? i obviously understand that top-down dpk give us better chance to get the item. But, you have to understand something, now none is gonna be worry about other people farming in your map. If someone farm twice fast than you in other chanel? how much do u see your chances of getting the desire item cut?
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If someone farms twice faster than you, it still increases your chances too. With pure RNG there would not be any increase at all. It would be harder for everyone. You seem to think its a DPK system. ITS NOT. Itâs RNG + failsafe.
Why would removing the failsafe be an improvement?
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all items, have a percentage to drop.
the thing is, that under curretn system, the % increase over time. and guarantee to drop
If tos adopt pure rng, and the % became fixed at the lower point, aka current 1/DPK %
you will still waste days without dropping the item.
We dont need to change the system, just increase the drop rate
Assured drops is worse than it being simple random chance. I doubt if IMC makes every drop be by a % chance that they would make, say, materials for the orange weapons be as low as 0.05%. No way. I donât believe IMC would be that retarded.
But even if they did, those Phadaâs sure still get made despite that mob type being unswellable and having a âmere low chanceâ of 1.14%.
https://tos.neet.tv/items/645695
I can assure you that Iâve farmed well over 100âs of these things without an issue, plenty dropping per hour. While farming for items like Caro Antenna on an empty map on a weekend for over 3 hours and then getting one or two, unless some guy decides to join in on the map, get the drop and then I spend another hour building up towards another drop with fractions of a chance to get it before itâs DPK value. Not to mention the awful spawn mechanic on this mob being scattered all over the map.
DPK isnât bad because it doesnât allow multiple drops to occur at once. DPK is bad because itâs a gimmick mechanic that resets and is shared by everyone. Itâs not much different than pure RNG anyway, except with DPK you can literally get griefed while with pure RNG thereâs no chance of that happening.
- RNG: Someone got lucky with a drop on the same map as you? Grats you lucky bastard!
- DPK: Someone got lucky with a DPK drop on the same map as you? Might as well just call it a nightâŚ
I think most of you who praise DPK have no idea how probability works and youâve never played games that have had probabilities as low as that.
Bottom line is âdrop down countâ or whatever they are branding it as is a bad design by itself. It shouldnât exist and IMC seems to be aware of it. Look at the recent changes to HG cubes:
They drop in fragments. You can build up towards the cube now, slowly. Not slaving away for 10,000+ kills (OR NOTHING) or 400 - 600 kills (OR NOTHING) without any being able to stop farming, because if you do all that building up a random stupid number counter for an increased chance that leads into an eventuality of it dropping was for naught.
Itâs the type of mind fuckery that I think this game doesnât need. Rid of it. Replace it. Remake it. Itâs terrible. As soon as itâs gone, IMC can start to adjust drop rates as needed.
Please donât give me any crap about RNG âbreaking my thaumaâ or âthis breaking my kabbalistâ. I swear the sole reason people defend DPK is because kabbalist cloning is a thing and they couldnât care less about it being a proper drop system rather than this garbage we got.
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Do u know read? I clearly have stated that you can farm thousand and not get nothing, but in average the drops are more consistent. And more important now you donât have to worry about other people in your map. Anyway, u can think whatever you want and the system will become to us. So you can quit or keep crying
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You actually did;
You really donât seem to get how the current system works compared to RNG from your answers. Like I said, this horrible feeling of having you effort âstolenâ doesnât come from the Top-Down DPK drop system. It stems from the absurdly high DPK parameter IMC set, making it so average luck people can only expect to drop something once youâve worked out more than 90% of that DPK parameter. Once again, I even gave you a numerical example to make it more didatic earlier.
If someone farms twice as fast as I do they deserver to have a twice better amount of loot on average, whatâs wrong with that? That will happen (now truly according to the Law of Large Numbers by the way) whichever system we are considering, be it RNG or our current one.
Iâll stress this point out once more and for the last time, RNG system is worse for similar drop parameters, pity most people donât seem to get that point.
If drop rate is set in the new system to be similar to the one we currently have, instead of having your effort stolen by another player, you and that other player will likely have your efforts stolen by RNGezus and this time indefinetely.
@celgaming this also applies to you. Really, you claim [quote=âcelgaming, post:65, topic:364940â]
most of you who praise DPK have no idea how probability works
[/quote]
When your statements sound incredibly biased and unscientifc in terms of Probablity Theory (which yes, Iâm no newcomer to thanks to my PhD in Economics). Meh, sorry but felt like I had to go there after being told âwe know nothingâ by someone whoâs clearly presenting wrong info 
@Patsch2 @a.jean89 @articusuno Good job keeping up the right info in this thread 
Dude⌠you are asking for a reduction of the drop rate⌠Do you even understands what you are askign?
WE DONâT HAVE A DPK SYSTEM. Is it that hard to wrap your head around that?
We have RNG + map wide Failsafe
You currently can drop 2 caro antenna in 2 kills.
A typical RO gear consists of top headgear, mid headgear, armor, mantle, boots, weapon, shield and 2 accesories.
Thatâs about 8 cards and between 1~4 extra cards for weapon, each card has a 0.01% chance to drop.
Not to mention the chance to actually get the gears, most of the better ones that didnât drop from bosses were pretty low rate too.
Also, not to mention that you needed more than a set of card + gear to tackle different content, since a thara frog card wonât help you killing brute enemies.
Itâs funny how you assume that IMC will do the right things when it fits your cause
Either way, if IMC wonât buff the droprates for pure RNG everyone will be worse off, youâll be permanently in the state of
"Might as well just call it a night"
Right now if something has 500 âdpkâ, someone getting a drop would make you have 0.2% to get that item on the first kill but it will just constantly increase the more monsters are killed
Now we can have the scenario of IMC making it purely RNG and setting that exact same item to 0.2% flat
That is not an improvement in any way, am I wrong?
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Until the actual percentages that IMC decided are known we canât say that what weâre getting is better than what we have. As it has been stated before, a simple reduction of DPK numbers wouldâve been a good fix
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They are just clueless and salty because they did not drop an item they wanted at some point⌠THey donât seem to understand what they are asking will reduce the drop rateâŚ
The only items that might be pure DPK are cubes as of now. And that comes from very very low amount of data on the matter and tehre is no way to prove it.
Basically, since people want to bring math in this, the negative side of the statistical bell curve is removed by the top down method. Remove the failsafe, allow the negative side of the bell curve to happen. You all might not have a major in math like I do but crap itâs not that hard to understandâŚ
edit :
Ok I lied, I only have a minor in math <.< but my major also had a bunch of different maths.
Given the DPK parameter of 20k, being pure DPK and being top-down DPK will be hardly indistinguishable from one another at any time really. Especially now that kill count doesnât reset anymore after a server/channel reset, weâve lost the only way to test it in simple terms: farmign right after maint and waiting for a cube to drop, if it does youâd have proven itâs not pure DPK. if it took thousands of kills though, weâd be back to not enough data to prove either oneâŚ
That actually just make it obvious why people hate the current system and think RNG would be better, they likely canât say whether itâs not pure DPK at all. Reducing the DPk parameter would be such a better idea really, I wonder how little faith IMC has in their own (for once good) ideas that theyâd change the entire system to please a mass of players who donât really seem to fully understand whatâs going on.
Either way the problem is that IMC supposedly implemented pure rng on the test servers
Thereâs nothing that can be done about it now, unless you want to drop to the same low level of the whiners who were crying about (nonexistant) dpk in the first place 24/7 on the forums
We can only hope now that the dropchance will be increased from their old âdpkâ values because thinking about farming gems with 0.01% droprate makes me want to puke
Iâm sorry, but if person Aâs chance to loot an item is determined by person B, C, D or however many people are on the same map, and someone else drops the item instead of person A and person Aâs chances drop again, person A may feel robbed of a higher chance to get the item (which is pretty much true, because after the item drops the counter is resetting to a much smaller percentage, which everyone has to tick away at again to increase the chances of the item dropping).
Top-down, DPK, whatever you want to call it, doesnât change the point that people still feel robbed when their chances are constantly determined by other people and that chance becomes abyssmally low when the item does drop for someone else and not them, despite their best individual efforts.
This was the point I tried to explain. Regardless of whether or not it is or isnât actually stealing since everyone always has a chance, people are going to feel as if their higher chances of dropping the item are stolen away when the item drops for someone else.
This was already proven in some later posts of this olde topic that a reasonable amount of people found a shared system frustrating to deal with.
It was already explained by an abrasive personality earlier.
Please donât make blanket statements if you want people to take your arguments seriously.
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Im kinda worried this may make some items really hard to obtain.
I also just read a bit of this thread ⌠guys we DONT have dpk for a good while already, topdown drop system is way different and its actually an easier RNG system that its gonna get changed to full RNG.
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I understand what you are trying to say,but removing the topdown would just reduce the amount of drops. Would you rather have an increasing chance over the time, or just always sit at 0.001% ? Basically, what you want to avoid would be far worse in a pure rng system.
Would you feel any better in a pure rng system if after 9000 kills of hanaming you see someone pass by, kill a hanaming and gets the gem in front of you?
At laest right now, you know that until a drop occurs, your chance inceases. Hence why you get âexcitedâ the more you kill a monster. You want to see that increase removed. It sucks seeing someone ahve a loot in front of you, but it sucks a lot more farming for 10 hours straight alone without having anything because RNG â â â â â â you
It sucks seeing someone have a loot, but there is no way of knowing if it was a failsafe drop or not. You probably always assume it was, but most likely it was not. You seem to forget that there is still a 0.001% chance that someone come in, kill 2 monsters, get a loot and leave even if the topdown was at 1/999 instead of 1/1000.
isnât iToS the testing tool lol
It looks like IMC is trying to make things more progressive. Itâs possible that instead of just cube fragments from 320 HG, we may get other fragment types like Monster Gems and anything else that is top-down DPK related.
If they go the fragment route for all top-down DPK items, they can afford to make the drop rates higher / more common. If the shards can be traded, that would also be great as there would be an economy for them.
But we donât really know what rates IMC is going to use for these items, or if all top-down DPK items are fragments or not.
Fragments are confirmed for cubes only, which are MAYBE the only real DPK items in the game right now. All the other items are RNG + failsafe as of now so it would make no sense adding fragments.