Tree of Savior Forum

Missile Hole Balance Discussion/Suggestions

Class and Rank
#1

Let me start by saying, I think missile hole is actually a good idea. Something like it that prevents the long-range oneshotters from mowing down literally everything.

In practice though I think it’s unreasonable, given that it has 100% uptime, and the last great hope (gohei) does not remove it. This completely (literally) negates an entire class tree and most of its subsequent branches and has effectively removed its future in PVP/GVG.

Some suggestions:
1.) Rather than reducing missile damage to 1, why not simply halve it, or quarter it? This is still difficult to deal with but does not say "yeah ■■■■ you, reroll out of archer."
2.) Change the hit limit to be a damage limit. For example, if I have missile hole up and eat a 50k snipe, missile hole is gone. If I’m just eating QS autoattacks, let it stay up until 50k’s worth of damage is absorbed or the hit limit is reached.
3.) Prevent 100% uptime. Increase the cooldown or make it im-Passable.

I personally switched gears from my musketeer to my sage for other reasons, and playing the latter is a joke. The skill ceiling for musk, given the netcode as it is, is already prohibitively high. You never even see them anymore and I have no doubt plenty of them reset to other classes. I’m happy to see that cannoneer is being reworked, but I think that there are better ways to balance it and the other archer classes down to a reasonable burst damage level without completely removing them from the PVP equation with a single, 100% uptime sage buff.

The idea of support wizards is interesting, and I’m not suggesting to completely nerf the class to the ground, I’m just interested in PVPing on my musketeer again at some point, ever, with the feeling that I’ll hit for more than 1 damage.

3 Likes
Missile Hole Discussion Compilation
Petition: Nerf Missile Hole. A single Rank should NOT make entire classes from Rank 1 to 8 useless
#2

As an archer main, MH is really broken in PVP. Those who say it’s not broken have not played archer. I think IMC will go with option 3 like how they made some Priest skills like Revive, Stone Skin and PD skill Bloodlet half duration in PVP.

#3

Fun fact, broadhead’s bleeding is still works.

1 Like
#4

I think my only issue with this is that fletchers are the optimal PVE archer right now. Being the only decent archer in a PVP setting too is unreasonable, especially for those who went a deliberately dedicated PVP build.

Technically wugushis are fine too, until you factor in antidotes existing.

#5

Archers here will come crying because they will be cloacked 24/7 while they can barely kill if there is a sage in the other team.
Cloak is a cancer itself without much counterplay, while with missile hole you can still bleed/poison and some other states.

For your information using missile hole before buff time expires won’t refresh hit count but skill will be on CD, probably a bug IMC won’t do anything about.

But hey, broken skill, don’t look on cloaking, ausrine or fletchers one shoting x)

#6

No, not barely. Not at all.

Cloak is astonishingly easy to counter, as a wide variety of things from a wide variety of classes can knock you out of it.

Less so with cloak + ausrine, but the problem there is fundamentally ausrine.

If you lose to cloak + any combination of archer abilities, the response is simply “get good.” If you lose to missile hole, the response is “reroll.” These are very different problems.

#7

Of course is possible, rogue, fletcher, wugu and even a SR can kill a sage pretty easy.

Is easy as long as player in stealth is in a melee position, which won’t happen in this game since the job who can get cloaking is a ranged one.
Losing cloak because the time expires is just a matter of walking to a corner and recast it again. Every single wizard is really limited as soon as there is a scout-rogue in the other team, not to mention that rogues can one shot pretty easy since almost each one of them are at least quarrel shooter 1 and throwing stones will stun for 2 secs (¿?).

#8

[quote=“neith720, post:7, topic:343406, full:true”]

Rogue damage is far too low to kill anything in PVP, it’s why they all rerolled.
Fletchers can, okay, sure, see previous comment though, that’s not an argument.
Wugus are countered by antidotes.
SRs can’t kill a sage because missile hole has 100% uptime (and can’t be dispelled).

So you have fletchers. Which are then the best PVE and PVP archer class. This is not balance.

#9

It’s a good suggestion but you know, doesn’t matter what we say here, doesn’t matter at all, IMC only take care of suggestions of korean players. Missile hole is in fact stupid unbalanced as many others skills in this game, but my friend, we can do nothing about it.

#10

Cloaking has too much counterplay already, a single Hunter or C3 Scout makes it completely useless.

All the strongest PVP classes have cloak counters(Catagoon/Warlocks/Kabbalist/Inquis/PD).

On the other hand,if they ever nerf Ausrine/Rx7 we may start seeing Archers drop Clerics,at least it seems that was the way IMC tried to make it very loosely balanced(Swordie>Archer>Cleric>Wizard>Swordie).

#11

Dafuq, I don’t know about your server but in Fedimian there is always a high leveled rogue in top or 2v2 whose strategy is waiting in cloaking until someone lands any cc skill or just throw stones to backstab people, and yea, those backstabs deals about 25k damage, 50k damage every 10 secs while they have a point and click long ranged stun.
I’m pretty sure you aren’t pretty used to PvP or people in your server are only clerics.

As said, fletchers can deal with anything, wugus are easily counterable but not SR since almost every SR is QS and again, they can just stun until the end + they have enough rapid-shoting skills to take the whole missile hole buff while stun is still up.
And yea, I’m a sage since r8 was released doing PvP everyday and I’ve seen everything.

Try better.

Removing Revenge Sevenfold will greatly improve the balance in pvp
#12

2x2 is baby league.

Almost no one cares about 2x2

2x2 is like the shitty grassfield where all the kids that aren’t good at sport do their PE while the kids that are good(Clerics) play at the good one(5x5)

#13

You are right, scenarios where 5 cloaked people vs 5 other players fights are way easier.

#14

2v2 is rock paper coursing and you’re talking about the single server you play on, I’m talking about PVP on the whole.

Again, regarding SR, missile hole has a 100% uptime. This is not speculative. This is objectively true. It does not matter if they’re a QS or not.

#15

I’ll quote myself since you haven’t read me or forget it at least.

So yea, it is, bugged as ■■■■ so in order to refresh it you must wait a minute or until someone blows it up. Probably you won’t be counting hits until the exact moment it goes off to cast it again tho.

If you can’t refresh it, then isn’t a 100% uptime.

#16

This is actually not true in practice.

Alternatively, pass does in fact refresh it and fixes the bug for the remainder of a TBL/GVG match. I can test later.

edit: Haven’t been able to test since I could not PVP on my sage cause I can’t log onto it due to the Klaipeda shenanigans.

However since so few people were on and the one char I could play was my musk, every other match I had a sage on the opposite team. It was literally the difference of several orders of magnitude of damage.

When he simply existed: 500 damage for a whole match
When there was not an enemy sage: 300k-400k damage, for a whole match

I am a max level class, designed for PVPing, and my damage is as close to 0 as possible because of a single buff. How in the world is this balanced?

1 Like
#17

Another of the reasons Missile Hole needs rebalance and rework is how the skill scales with next ranks:

With Lv.16 Missile Hole (Divine Might): 49 hits for 3,5 minutes. Cooldown: 31 seconds.

#18

Assuming the skill gets past lv5, which shouldn’t be the case as it is atm.

2 Likes
#19

It does in next ranks. Agree that it should stay capped at Lv.5 though (16 hits is already too much).

#20

1 Like