I manage to get manamana recipe from DG200 Boxes. GG
So I’m planning to get a Xbow,
By the way,
Does a highly enhanced SKC can outdamage isbality when I’m fighting demon mobs/bosses?
If yes, maybe you can give me the enhancement ratio between SKC and isba (for example like +10 SKC is equal damage to +5 isba vs demon or so). I’m not planning to keep more than one xbow so for more general usage I assume SKC will do better than isba, obviously.
Thanks!
The damage bonus from refine would need to be equal to:
(255.5 * %C / 1.5) + (255.5 * %NC)
where %C is your chance to land a critical strike and %NC is your chance to not land a critical strike, both as decimals.
If you had 100% critical strike chance, you would need a 170.33 damage difference via refine to outdamage Isbality’s bonus, i.e: a +10 SKC against a +0 Isbality vs Demon.
+10 GG. I guess it will take sometimes until I have enough silver again ._.
Okay then, time to farm silver again. Lol
Thanks for always replying btw, very helpful 
Have a good day!
You’re welcome. I would personally use a mid-refined (+8 maybe) SKC until DGC.
I just tested out my fresh from the oven +8 SKC & Mana-mana in a mission run.
Why do I feel like I finish it slower than using my Maga Bow?
Is +8 SKC+Mana still lose to +12 Maga Bow?
If yes, maybe I should go +10 or something?
Maybe you want to make another spreadsheet about enhancement comparison also? Hehe,
*Ignore the spreadsheet request if you already include it in your previous spreadsheets, maybe I’ll recheck later.
Thanks!
Me too.
Against dungeon boss Guard Dog Cerberus (demon, x-large, leather) for example:
+5 Maga Bow seems to do 10-15% more damage than +0 Isbality + Manamana
I can post screenshots if anyone requests (haven’t played the game in a while but still checks on updates from time to time).
Upgrading Isbality to +5 would give me about 40 increase in weapon damage, but I doubt that would make using the crossbow + manamana be significantly better than Maga Bow.
Am I missing something here? No doubt xbow + manamana is the best for AA-ing at the moment, but for general skill usage to a certain point, Maga Bow (maybe even Khasti for Medium-below sizes) starts to come out on top if not on even grounds against non-flying.
What more against flying types?
I know right. I feel like my Maga Bow is better to use despite the fancy item Mana-mana.
That’s why I actually asked here in the first place, ‘Which will do better against a non flying boss? Maga Bow or xbow+mana’. Not that this thread give wrong information but as from what I tested, I do run slower compare to my usual Maga Bow run. And I really don’t care at all about mobs, it’s not my ‘real’ job (but doesn’t mean I do bad damages to mobs with Maga, I do really fine at least that’s what i feel).
As for Khasti I’m not sure, probably xbow+mana will win because of the lack of extra damage against the boss size. But who knows even khasti can win?
Need some clarification here…
Am I missing something here?
What you’re missing is that anvil upgrading a weapon to 5+ will mitigate the 10%/15% missile damage penalty against medium/large targets. That is probably the damage difference you are seeing.
That would make sense.
Does it work the same with both xbows and 2h bows? Sorry I didn’t really go through the spreadsheet and all the math stuff.
If so, I will try +5-ing that Isbality or a similar/better xbow when I have time to be online again and see how things change.
Thanks for the info.
Can you explain mine? I upgrade my SKC to +8, is it not enough? If not, I might gamble more to +10 ups maybe… sigh
+5 is enough from personal experience, but I could be wrong.
I’m not sure I could explain yours however, since I have maga bow, isbality and SKS all at similar anvil upgrade/gem levels and I have never seen maga bow outdps on anything that isn’t a flying enemy or flying boss with my skillset.
OK, had some free time to do some basic damage test (sorry forgot to run it using skills). Included screenshots for proof.
(Legend: “~” means “about, around, more or less”)
Weapons used
+5 maga bow
vs
+5 isbality + manamana
Note: xbow attribute is maxed (lv.5)
Against demon + large + leather http://www.tosbase.com/database/monsters/57719/
2hbow = ~950 http://i.imgur.com/UzWbNtB.jpg
xbow = ~1260 http://i.imgur.com/s5jJYRd.jpg
xbow wins by ~+30%
Against demon + large + plate http://www.tosbase.com/database/monsters/57714/
2hbow = ~1020 http://i.imgur.com/FPFZ9vn.jpg
xbow = ~1520 (1690 minus 170 from blessing, somehow got buffed) http://i.imgur.com/fkEKgCt.jpg
xbow wins by ~+50%
If I do some raw math and take the weaknesses (race and size) out:
Against leather
2hbow = ~760
xbow = ~920
xbow still wins by ~+20%
Against plate
2hbow = ~840
xbow = ~1180
xbow still wins by ~+40%
Conclusion: Xbow (upgraded +5-up) + Manamana is indeed current anti-non-flying BIS and even works better against plated enemies due to One-handed Bow Mastery.
4 Likes
Thanks for your actual damage test.
The reason why @byon_lee feels that his Maga Bow feels stronger that SKC is because its +12, and I think +12 above has 0% penalty from missile damage (I’ve seen it in FB thread, but cannot find real good source with this so don’t credit this one)
Lyralei’s spread sheet does not include upgrade, so it will just vary on your current weapon’s upgrade.
Also, 2Hand bow might win on some test as it has wide range of min and max damage.
Would maga bow be comparable to a viper bow?
So what about Karacha Dagger instead of Manamana?
Doing the maths, the dagger really doesnt come short much on normal hits. 316 damage from Karacha, 342 from Manamana.
This is assuming that the base damage from offhands is simply added together with that of the mainhand? If that’s not the case, then obviously i am talking BS. Can anyone comfirm this? [Consider EDIT!!]
And the other assumption, which makes me tend to go for Karacha dagger, is that elemental damage is not affected by the crit multiplier. I had asked that in /shout before and got people confirming it.
Now, when i have a crit build, Karacha is actually better, because it’s more base damage -> higher crits.
EDIT: Okay, offhand damage is completely ignored and just stats are added, thus Karacha is obviously worse.
Thanks for clarifying. I tested also on Mineloader Boss on Level 130 Dungeon.
It IS indeed doing faster (the SKC) than my Maga Bow. Not sure what happened but I’m doing really fine right now with my +8 SKC even in WB hunt, well for some wb I still haven’t trust my +8 SKC because I usually end up in a damage race with more than one Isba+Manamana user.
Not sure why my run is slower in my first try, maybe because of some kind of server delay or maybe the party composition since I’m auto-partying or maybe it is just me who not getting use of xbow (It feel a bit different from a 2h bow, not sure though, maybe just me).
Thanks for always answering my questions!
Glad that my confusion is now clear 
Have a good day!
EDIT: do to my curiousness, I try to take a look how much MA damage per tick to mineloader boss in dg130… Maga Bow did 3.3k per tick while SKC+Mana did 3.1k… I think It’s not min - max damage case? because I fired like 2-3 MA and did around that… I think the only reason I feel SKC faster is because the full hit of barrage (5 hit) while I’m using SKC, because I can’t get 5 hit barrage while using 2h bow. is this normal?
Mineloader is Lightning element and takes half damage from your Manamana’s elemental component.
3 Likes
is Superior Wreech Bow better than Khasti Bow?
341-512
versus
284-426
Wreech bow is +57/86
but khasti does have the +144 critical damage.
is crit damage 200% damage? So that would mean the wreech bow is just able even average wise on crit damage from the higher base damage and just slightly ahead on non-crit?
So for the budget pack and those who can’t afford manamana yet,
which alternative sub weap do you guys suggest along with the xbow?
Arde dagger of course.