Tree of Savior Forum

Lord Stormakov's General Feedback

Gameplay Feedback General Feedback
#1

Let me start of by saying all of the information below is of my own opinion and based on my 7 day experience in iCBT in which I got to level 106.

These are in my opinion the largest issues with the game currently

  • Boss Damage, HP & Scaling
  • Monster EXP Difficulty vs. Reward & Density
  • Skill Explanations
  • Diminishing Returns on Status Effects
  • Class Power Disparity

I’ll go into detail with each one of them now:

Boss Damage, HP & Scaling… This for me is one of the big ones if not THE biggest, the only time I was not enjoying playing tree of Savior was when I was mindlessly slamming my face against my keyboard waiting for a boss with a million HP to die. At some point during the leveling process (starting around the Crystal mines) boss HP shot up like a rocket while my damage stayed abysmally low. To make matters worse, for the most part the boss animations were slow as molasses and even when their attacks did connect with you they would do such insignificant damage it was almost not worth trying to dodge them.

The solution is very simple and obvious, but getting it just right will most likely require a lot of tweaking - simply Boss HP and HP scaling with more players needs to be toned down. Boss attack animations, if at all possible needs to be increased and damage, especially for long telegraphed wind ups need to be much much stronger.

Monster EXP Difficulty vs. Reward & Density… Currently the most effective way to level is to find a mob with low hp, a weakness to your damage type, and a high density - anything else is vastly inferior. Because per mob exp is scaled linearly there’s almost no penalty for fighting stuff a few levels lower than you with practically no hp so you can just constantly mob without any downtime.

There are two fixes to this, per mob exp needs to not only be based on it’s HP but on how difficult the mob is - things with CC, homing missiles, status effects, high defense rates - should all have a boost to how much exp they worth because of the additional difficulty factor added to them.

The next thing is density - if you’re going to have a zoned with large areas but only 4-5 mobs in it, these mobs need to be tough to kill but highly rewarding - higher class exp? better drop rewards? etc but just over all more rewarding. The other solution is to just increase mob density overall - just add more mobs, it can really be that simple when done correctly.

Skill Explanations … This one is pretty self explanatory - but the descriptions for skills; what they do, how they work mechanically, etc is absolutely dismal - this is not just from poor translation but just a general lack of information.

Solution is to go over each skill individually and explain it properly and thoroughly.

Diminishing Returns on Status Effects… This is a bit of a weird one, because it has always been a bit hit or miss in my experience - I will use the minotaurs in Mausoleum Floor 5 as an example. These mobs have an ability that will damage you and petrify you for 8 seconds - yes, 8 god damn seconds of petrify but wait here’s the kick, they can do it to you again…and again…and again…and then not again? It seems that attacks can reapply a FULL duration status affect a few times creating a perma-stun effect but then suddenly can’t?

Add diminishing returns for reapplied status affects - it’s simple enough, halved durations for every reapplication with complete immunity for 30s after 4 applications.

Class Power Disparity… This one is obviously the hardest one to fix because it comes down to balance - however here’s the issue - there are too many useless classes, ranks & abilities in the game. This forces people even more so into “cookie cutter” builds so that they can feel viable and enjoy playing the game, creating a very limited and boring feeling game without any diversity.

Rather than seeing things nerfed, I would first like to see weak classes buffed - the game is always more enjoyable that way. Find interesting ways to shorten power gaps with utility rather than just givings things a flat % damage increase, etc.

There are some other minor things, but they tend to be isolated individual glitches and bugs rather than overall gameplay affects.

12 Likes
Please don't listen to the casual players
#2

Adding DR is such a slippery slope, it adds another element of balance that is difficult to manage in a team-based game for both PVP and PVE. I would rather see them keep it in and force party involvement with cures than have DR be added.

8 seconds is a bit much though to begin with, maybe reduce overall CC times in pve at least.

1 Like
#3

Thanks for you feedback agree on every point you made…

#4

I’m agreeing with you in most of the points. I just have to add one thing. Dodgeing the bosses skills sometimes was pretty much of a necessity for me because they almost one hitted me and i played archer class.
But you are right there has to be an upgrade and a balance especially when fighting them alone or in party.

#5

That’s where the single target burst dmg comes into play. If you were playing a Pyro/Psycho and always kept your equip on par with your level you would think the complete opposite compared to other classes who might struggle in killing a boss fast enough. Pyro/Psycho does insane dmg and you feel how the boss HP bar is melting down. People who think diff even with these classes were clearly underleveled/undergeared or picked the wrong talents first. And sometimes people are too afraid to go into the fights offensively (i have watched enough psycho videos on youtube where the psycho does nothing but jumping around for 5 minutes…when he could have finished the boss in less than 90 seconds)

Same as other games you see people with the same level same class and same gear doing 50% or even less dmg than you do.

Totally agree - they nerfed the fun parts in many classes and kept the weak classes weak as they are. Instead of nerfing the fun out of others they should balance and improve the gameplay of other classes who are “useless” until now. I have seen many complains about Archer classes being too weak in terms of raw dps. Let’s take the example of a Cryo mage and his ice blast - one of the fun skills before it got nerfed…i was so excited to use it and got slapped in my face because it’s completely useless now. That’s not a balance that’s more of making a class less enjoyable to play. Good luck to all of the cryos who wanna go for Circle 3 - you will not enjoy the boss fights at all. (going back into the boss section xD)

1 Like
#6

i was fighting bosses 10-20 levels above me and it never took me very long. did you upgrade your equipment to +5 and have it slotted with upgraded gems?

#7

I’m not sure what level you got to in the game, but I was playing a Barbarian… I was critting consistently for 2.5k+ around lvl 50 normally - but Bosses had such insane defenses this dropped drastically.
And yes my weapon I was using was always +5 AND I had +5 weapon swaps to make sure I was fighting the Bosses weaknesses.

Perhaps maybe it’s not the HP that needs to be adjusted but rather their physical defenses?

It’s an issue, maybe you never experienced it, but it is there, trust me.

Cleric soloing bosses using this
#8

[quote=“dafuzzykoala, post:7, topic:35348, full:true”]

[quote=“sephi4321, post:5, topic:35348”]
That’s where the single target burst dmg comes into play.
[/quote]I was critting consistently for 2.5k+ around lvl 50 normally - but Bosses had such insane defenses this dropped drastically.[/quote]

Of course you were clearing the trash mobs faster than others - Barb depends highly on crits if the crit resist of a boss gets too high you won’t be able to drop it as quickly as you might think you could or should. Adding the Slash resist and other things it’s normal that you can’t kill it like a class wich exploits the same bosses weakness could. Lets say it got a high phys res and crit res on top of slash resist - you are dealing 25-35% of the dmg that you should on “trash” but same time the boss got a weakness against fire so a pyro gonna melt it down in no time - would be hilarious if you could do the same thing even the boss was “strong” against you. But again thats the weakness of your class - you do immense dmg against trash mobs but you cannot melt down bosses like you think you “should” - kind of a balance i might say. And i am pretty sure a Barb was able to clear trash mobs faster than a circle 1 pyro/psycho could. At least “pre patch” idk if the rumors are true that barbs are getting nerfed to the ground - if they do get nerfed then i would understand your concern cause they gonna fall behind in dps pretty fast.

And after all it’s a MMORPG people should team up with peeps who compliment their own classes. For example i play as a wiz>pyr>psy and gonna choose psy>chrono>chrono next teaming up with a friend who goes clerc>clerc>clerc>pal>monk>monk This way clearing trash and grinding is fast and easy + bosses hp bar melts down as soon as hes hitting monk. (about the time where i might struggle to kill them fast enough solo - depends on the skills a boss is using and my window of opportunity to deal some serious damage as a psy)

1 Like
#9

Sure, I agree - but that’s no excuse for a boss who’s weak to slash to take over 10-15 minutes to kill solo (this number is NOT an exaggeration), especially when you run into Bosses on quest progression extremely often.

And it’s not like I’m saying this is the only thing that needs to be done, I also highly suggested the increase in animation speed and overall damage that they do.

Having Boss fights last 3-4 Minutes and making them visceral and engaging is the ideal solution, fighting something for 10-15 minutes while you just stand there and tank and spank without even dodging seems so horribly dull.

Also it should be noted that trying to Group while questing is a nightmare unto itself, unless you were with a static group from the get go, trying to find people on your exact step can take forever.

#10

10-15 minutes? That’s quite some time - feels like doing a field boss solo. it’s been a simple Quest Boss? Did you go all out DEX or more points into STR than dex? Making them more challenging sounds good - Heard they dropped the bosses difficulty and they gonna improve in the future?! Idk if thats true either or just a rumor again. Even tho i would love to see that - dropping bosses even faster would be nice. The only thing i have done was setting up firewall + fireball + spamming pressure - considering the “lazyness” of some bosses they fall pretty quickly on that. I really don’t know how fast other classes can clear them i only do know that circle 3 clerics got a pretty hard time. And i always hear how weak Archer classes are.

CBT bro CBT - things gonna change in the open beta (if they won’t whipe it) or after the release. Most people are far too lazy to stress themselfs into higher level during CBTs - the people of our raganrok guild are singing the same old song “we only wanna play when its released cbt is so boring and chars are gone” So you get some people to scout the game and update with needed info of classes exp rates good spots and so on. If we are still in contact i could invite you to my grinding group too - even tho i prefer going as a group of two - less stressful and you wont have to wait for others - real life kills in that point xD

#11

Yea, this makes a lot of sense, fair enough.

These were Quest Bosses between 40 and 80, My Build was 1:1 Str/Dex Ended up with 80str 80dex 14con

#12

Im here to say, 10-15 minutes is correct depending on your class.
I went 3/3 archer 1/3 wugushi and it took me 10-15 minutes to kill a boss, :slight_smile: but then again Archers (From what i think) were definitely the weakest class/tree in the game at that iCBT. And if you’re talking about wrong stats… eh… i ended up with 75 str 85 dex? Something like that.

Edit: Personally i don’t have an issue with bosses taking awhile to kill but i do agree their attack patterns and animations are slow as sloth. The game should feel more “Action-eee” but it just feels boring when you fight a boss for 10-15 minutes haha.

#13

Based on the videos of higher level bosses (and personal experience of the lv 50+ stuffs), they do get faster compare to low level ones, some even getting new attacks.

I think that if the boss you fight still have its red danger AoE indicator (assuming no Oracle obviously), it’s still just intro fights.

#14

THIS. I got chained sleep in one map while mobbing 7-10 mobs that can use sleep. Luckily I have summon otherwise I would have died from the 25-30 seconds comma.

#15

I don’t think so - at least i did not feel this way - i got a huge window of opportunity at level 50+ Bosses ya even 10+ seconds when i could go ham on them while being stationary (i went for 2:1 con/int) and at some bosses i didn even get hit once before they died - never felt any so called challenge once - but then again as i mentioned in another thread wizard type classes got a huge “bonus damage” on their skills and dont rely on int as the other classes rely on dex/str - i mean i had low int and bosses still die pretty fast - while other classes take up to 15 minutes for same bosses and investing points into dps stats? sounds unfair

#16

Not getting hit is possible .- . I mean there’s tells of ‘I’m gonna attack now’

I don’t know if it’s the same in your case, but certain bosses do have this sort of enraged attack where it’s more intense than usual (like Stone Whale doing 3-4 set of lasers instead of 1-2) but afterward they’ll be tired and you have a long time to beat on them.

And seeing as my cleric could get some 250 odd damage swing at 50+ level with barely any Str investment, that ‘don’t rely on stat’ doesn’t apply to just wizards.

Heck my last-day-made Highlander didn’t invest any point into Str (a few points in SPR then the rest DEX) could still one just things with crit/damage type bonus.