Tree of Savior

[Legacy Guide] [Outdated after Re:BUILD patch] Hackapell & Rogue Class Lounge


#1475

Nice, looking forward to your testing! Yeah now that you mentioned it, the critical damage being simply x2 instead of x1.5 of non-critical could be what they meant by increased by 50% (very poor wording). If this is the case, then remember to not max the attribute immediately. Lv 1, Lv 3 and Lv 5 sample would be enough to prove.


#1476

What I meant up there is

Normal critical: 162,489 79 attribute
Normal critical: 116,479 0 attribute

162,489 + 58239.
Attribute: 215,313

If you in Telsiai, we can test together.


#1477

With your test data, I think crit damage changed from x1.5 to x2 is most possible assumption.
Say in more accuracy:
original crit damage = skill% x (phy_atkx1.5 + crit_atk) x def_factor
GT attribute crit damage = skill% x (phy_atkx2 + crit_atk) x def_factor

If so, the damage increased will be
(phy_atkx0.5)/(phy_atkx1.5+crit_atk).

If we use your test data.

(1420x0.5)/(1420x1.5+52) = 0.325
162489x(1+0.325) = 215361, which is very close to 215313 from your test.

Take your previous test for verification.
low phy atk:
(7524x0.5)/(7524x1.5+1205) = 0.301
188kx(1+0.301) = 244k

4k diff may be variance introduced by min-max phy_attack

Is this make sense?

Maybe we can try your second test but increase the crit atk to 1k~2k to see if this attribute count crit atk or not.


#1478

It turned out got C3 Hacka now lel

Btw my test

Kugheri Zeffi

Test 1

Main Patk 1390-1408
Offhand Patk 1340-1344
Crit Atk 2109

5095 Normal
15561 Grind normal crit

23499 with crit shot

16214 lv1 atribute
16175
16201

17703 lv4 attribute
17718
17718

18262 lv5 attribute
18261

27276 lv5 + crit shot
27371

So what the hell is this…it’s way less % than Zenigame

K more test

Test 2
Main Patk 5068-5710
Offhand Patk 1340-1344
Crit Atk 3807

5216 Normal
22264 Grind normal crit
22248

33352 with crit shot

24769 lv5 attribute
24824
24784

37326 lv5 + crit shot
37371
37121

Test 3
Main Patk 1390-1408
Offhand Patk 5689-6051
Crit Atk 2328

45844 Normal
88935 Grind normal crit
92217
87433
90808

132477 with crit shot
134524

116813 lv5 attribute
116175

Overkill lv5 + crit shot
But safe to say from previous tests, 116175*1.5
174262.5


#1479

Let’s verify my assumption.

Test 1
1340x1.5+2109 = 4119

lv1 attribute
1340x0.1/4119=0.0325
15561x0.0325 = 505
15561+505 = 16066
Diff 16175 - 16066 = 109

lv4 attribute
1340x0.4/4119=0.130
15561x0.130 = 2024
15561+ 2024 = 17585
Diff 17703 - 17581 = 118

lv5 attribute
1340x0.5/4119=0.163
15561x0.163 = 2531
15561+ 2531 = 18092
Diff 18261 - 18092 = 169

Test2
1340x1.5+3807 = 5817

1340x0.5/5817=0.115
22248x1.115 = 24810

Test3
min
5689x1.5+2328 = 10861.5
5689x0.5/10861.5=0.262
87433x1.262 = 110330

max
6051x1.5+2328 = 11404.5
6051x0.5/11404.5 = 0.265
92217x1.265 = 116681

Seems reasonable.

By the way, do you have elementary damage about 100?


#1480

Test 1 was using Miki Set, lowest npc weapon and no other buff.
Test 2 using Masi xbow, npc sword and have like 340 elemental.
Test 3 using npc xbow, Masi sword and have like 390 elemental.

Target was leather type just to rule out if the Grind attribute part doesn’t consider weapon advantage.


#1481

the values you gave on the grind cutter part somewhat fits with the theory of Grind Cutter being additive to critical ratio instead of multiplicative.

I create some calculator, although it is not totally accurate but the numbers you gave is near what it solved.

defence is take tos-neet of 1026,
.9 is the exponent used inside the log 10 of the defence computation
crit% is where grind cutter could be affecting.
total multiplicative mod is where critical shot buff would be


#1482

Well both of you got the same idea and the calculation seems fit the numbers. It kinda suck but I’m settled with that. Pumped my attribute already.


#1483

Well, I totally misunderstood what redwea is trying to say, but this misunderstanding seems to turn out to be the correct answer lol (what is the chance of that?)

@BlackCat
Slight adjustment to your formula needed regarding skill and enhance (they should be bracketed together and truncated). Those who plans to use the enhance field should then use the non-truncated value for the skill field too (refer to tos neet).

Anyways though this GC C3 attribute isn’t as strong as wished to be, at least it’s multiplicative with critical shot buff (well, almost everything is). The OP thing about critical shot buff is really not its value, but how it further buffs every other thing due to where it is in the formula. If they were to nerf it, I suspect it will end up like GC C3 attribute, and the critical ratio will become 2.5 instead.


#1484

noted on the suggestions. I will try testing if the % ingame is truly truncated for the calculation of damage or if it is only truncated on the skill information UI.


#1485

Ahaha I just read back posts above it. I was wondering how you guys come out with crit 1.5x to 2x and it was from the misunderstanding.

I bet @greyhiem already figured out and waiting for us to solve by ourself :thinking:


#1486

so at the end, is hackapell 3 worth :prince:?


#1487

20secs of pain barrier+ extra grind cutter dmg+ infinite assault being decent at lv 1+points that can go for skharp.

I think it is.

“But infinite assault sucks for a C3 skill”

it’s a decent filler skill,has crazy range and it’s really fast to use(this is the most ignored important part ihmo).

Another deciding factor:
Can the pain barrier effect be increased by Melstis/Base Camp?
With Base Camp it would become a 100% uptime deal both for Pain Barrier and Hackapelle.

I have Rogue C3 (lil snowflake Hacka build) so that also brings Evasion to 66%% uptime. It’s a lot of melee “perfect evasion”


#1488

I tested Critical shot & hakka Pelle to see the different, seems critical shot + hakka pelle do 100% adding crit dmg in total on the boss
The other boss no crit shot or hakka pelle


#1489

My Grind cutter at 100% att


#1490

“But infinite assault sucks for a C3 skill”

Infinite Assault is strong and fast with high skill% factor
You can kill enemies in range and also escape from CC trap with it. So its very useful in PvP too


#1491

Hacka2 might viable with Falc which can solve well hacka’s problem
But for dmg hacka3 much better
You have:

  • more point for Grind cutter, Skarph, Storm
  • Grind cutter attribute adding 50% for crit dmg
  • Aussault as strong as grind cutter with high %factor

From those lines Hakca3 almost have double dmg in compared to hacka2

  • And Hakka pelle more points for pvp, with rogue2 you can get 55% more evasion that adding directly to your base evasion. 70% evase is possible that reduced lot of enemies’s dmg

#1492

It’s weird not from last crit dmg x50% but x2 on skill factor = w =
I have to test again but my crit with crit shot + grind cutter seems did double dmg, maybe i dint notice min-max atk

But how to explain my dmg on those 2 bosses?
Different type and armour of boss?


#1493

Grind Cutter: Cavalry Charge and Critical Shot boost depends on own buff to determine damage calculations; they are not debuffs. And cavalry charge don’t even have to hit an enemy to activate the 5s buff that will increase grind cutter damage.


#1494

We all know the answer. I have 5 archers but I don’t wanna play 5 musketeer :upside_down_face: