Tree of Savior

[Legacy Guide] [Outdated after Re:BUILD patch] Hackapell & Rogue Class Lounge


#1375

Thanks for the answers.

Even though it seems to be expensive I’ll try it!
What is better:
Ar1 - QS3 - Rogue1 - Falc3 - Hacka1/2
Ar2 - QS3 - Falc3- Hacka1/2
Ar1 - QS3 - Ranger1 - Falc3 - Hacka1/2
?


#1376

Ranger 1 should be handy, but I think there’s a fat chance they’ll nerf ranger 1.

I’ll let others answer your question but I’ll go with

either of the two.


#1377

I suggest this
Ar1 - QS3 - Ranger1 - Falc3 - Hacka1/2
Include Ranger C1 anyway. There’s no sign in ktos of Ranger nerf. You’ll also get 5% missile damage.

Your invested weapon either Crossbow/Shield + Sword or 2h Bow + Sword. You need to know this class is not popular because it need decent investment but Falco3 should be fine to carry you.


#1378

I’m ready to give up 5 levels on another skill to put Hacka Pelle on lvl 10
50% sp reduction is too good do miss


#1379

@redwea as he’s a new player, would a1>qs3>r1>falc3>hacka1/2 really be best? with quarrel shooter you really do need masinios crossbow, which is an expensive requirement for a new player. he’s also not going to have access to crit rate gear all that easily to begin with. for both these reasons, would archer2>ranger3>falc3>hacka1/2 not be a better build for him?


#1380

Again thanks for all the fast answers and sorry to ask a lot of simple questions - I just want to be sure.

Hopefully last Question from me which is kinda the same as before…
So far I’ve decided that I want to go:
Ar1 - Qs3 - X - Falc3 - Hacka1/2

X could be the following “filler”:
Ar2 -> Swift Step Attribute for Crit (Always up), stronger Multishot
Ranger1 -> Barrage (Single/AoE), Critical Shot (+50% Crit Dmg on 1? Target), Steady Aim (More missle dmg)
Wugu1 -> Posion + 3xVelnia Monkey Card = +30% dmg, Wugong Gu (AoE + Poison)
Rogue1 -> Sneak Hit + 3/2xWerewolf Card = 40% Crit*0,3/0,2, Feint as Debuff
Appraiser -> Def. Debuff, Crit Buff, Off hand enhancement
Maybe even Fletcher1…

I just don’t know which one to take but I am leaning towards Appraiser (my first Choice) or Archer2.
Do you think an Appraiser would be useful or should I go with Archer/something else ?

PS:
Keep in mind I am still new but I don’t mind to grind a lot.


#1381

I don’t know what Hackapelle damage runs off, but I think Masi Xbow is a luxury. You really only need Didel Grand Cross if you’re just looking for the skill boost.


#1382

@SillyGuyWithSword ranger 1 gives you +50% crit damage against all targets, not just 1. it’s a buff, not a debuff. basically you get a buff for +10% crit damage every time you use critical shot. the buff stacks 5 times for a max of +50%, and critical shot has 5 overheat, so you can keep the 5x stack going constantly.


#1383

@ultimapi hackapell’s running shot would be based off your main hand weapon. it’s not like bullet marker where your sub weapon becomes your main weapon. didel grand cross wouldn’t be anywhere near strong enough, and your falcon damage would be simply terrible. masinios xbow feels like a basic requirement for non-bm quarrel shooters.


#1384
  1. About Ranger1:
    Wow, that’s unexpected but sounds super strong with enough Crit Rate which I may not have for a long time… So I understand now why its held in high regard by everyone but I think I won’t get to the point where it feels good fast.
    I just don’t know… I probably will sleep and decide tomorrow with (hopefully) some more opinions on that matter.

  2. About Masi Xbow:
    I think we shouldn’t worry about that too much.
    Worst case then I think its impossible to farm that much silver I just go Bullet Marker instead of Hacka… xD
    I kinda like to have expensive item(s) because then I can work towards it step by step and it will feel super good to finally get it.


#1385

He already has some playstyle in mind and ask the forum on 3 different QS variance. I won’t suggest something that is totally different than what he wanted unless it’s totally bad. I have many character that is not fully optimised for damage but it still has it use. As @ultimapi said, Masi Xbow is more of a luxury item than a MUST item and the bow is cheaper nowadays.

Lastly @SillyGuyWithSword
Ranger1 fix all Archer Dps problem. That’s how I value Ranger now.


#1386

A bit of delay between player and server. No effect on the skill. It deals 2 hits to mobs too. Decent skill now.

@leleconildo I dislike how mount-only buffs are lost on dismount & remount. I am not sure if the pain barrier buff is mount-only too. Will try it later.

@Bibsfirra it’s quite nice, especially after rank 10 patch reduced hackapel skill SP consumption. Players who enjoyed the buff for low SP consumption hackapel will like it more after patch.


@SillyGuyWithSword an old video (but skills are still up-to-date) explains falconer3 very well by tsai tom here<<<click

Hacka+falconer build requires a minimum of 2 weapon investments. Invested = anvil, transcendence, gems.
Falconer skill damage scales on Main-weapon (crossbow or bow).
Hackapel skills scale on Sword. The exceptions are cavalry charge (scales on main-weapon), and leg shot (scales with pistol). Cavalry charge is solely used for its debuff. Leave it at level 1. Leg shot is rarely used.

Weapon type investment options <<< click to read

Bow + Sword --> Main-hand: Bow (invested), and weapon swap slot: crossbow(just stats and gems, no anvil) + sword (invested). Keep attacking with Bow. Using hackapel skills automatically swaps to crossbow+sword to use the skill, then it swaps back to bow very fast. Advantage of bow: 50% bonus damage vs Flying mobs.

Crossbow + Shield + Sword --> Main hand: crossbow (invested) + Shield (may be lower invested), auto-swap slot: same crossbow + sword (invested). Running shot works with bow, however wearing a shield will allow you to block physical attacks. Missile attacks are easily blocked with quarrel shooter’s shield passive attribute. After rank 10 you gain a +10 movespeed boost for 10s (cooldown 60s) after blocking Missile attacks with quarrel’s passive.

.

Text about falconer3 <<<click

Falconer3 provides great utility&support for party, and AoE damage.
Roost+Pheasant is a 15-target burst. Falconer3’s Pre-emptive strike auto-casts the Sonic strike skill on the mob you are currently attacking. Sonic Strike becomes AoE once you invest into AoE attack ratio items. Falconer3 aiming enlarges mob size. Indicated by the purple circles.

Current Hackapel AoE hitbox size is low, and you might feel a bit bad about it after you reach hackapel. After rank 10 patch the hackapel AoE size will be buffed. For hackapel to hit multiple mobs you must invest into AoE attack ratio gear and cards. Edit: AoE mechanic is explained on first post now!
If you enjoy high-investments, it is optional to have another gear (&card) set for bossing.

Circling reduces mob AoE-defence ratio to 1. You will be able to hit more mobs easily with your AoE attack ratio during circling. Each 1 AoE attack ratio hits 1 mob during circling.

.webm below shows quarrel3 (rogue1) falconer3 hackapel1. Uses running shot to hit mobs on the move to lure mobs. Cast circling and use hackapel skills to easily hit aiming-enlarged mobs. The main equipped weapons are crossbow + shield. It auto-swaps to crossbow+sword during sword skills.



Ranger1 is the strongest option, once you reach a sufficient investment level for gear & gem for crit rate over 200 (after mob crit resist). A graph on this post<< shows ranger’s critical-shot buff beats all other buffs after some investment into crit rate. Even if your crit rate is low, the hackapel’s cavalry-charge applies a debuff which grants all physical attacks a true_35% crit chance on the debuffed targets. (formula for crit chance = crit rate^0.6)

Each time you hit a mob with ranger’s Critical Shot, you receive 1 stack of Critical-buff (max 5 stacks). At 5 stacks your final damage increases by x1.5 during critical attacks. This boost is extremely strong.
The duration of the buff is 15s, and the skill’s cooldown is 10s with 5 overheat. You will have a permanent damage boost for critical attacks for 1 circle of ranger.
Image shows critical shot buff on the character, next to aspersion and increase-magic def (bought at pardoner town shop).
image

Archer2 is the cheapest option and makes you feel stronger during early & mid-game until level 250~300.
Rogue1 sneakhit Lv5 is a very minor damage boost over archer2’s swift step, and requires more investment (werewolf card).


#1387

Thanks for the detailed reply.
It answered everything I wanted to know but now I have some new questions because a lot has changed from my original starting point.


I watched all videos in the guide and decided to do the following Build:

Ar1 - Ranger 3 - Appraiser - SR3 - Hacka 1/2
https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#31444daaa7.4525.1f21314f75.23324555.253f4f6575.15716151
For R10:
Skarphuggning 10/10; Hakka Pelle 5/5 and Grind Cutter 5/5

So far so good I thought… but after reaching SR I became unsure.
“Is it really worth it to go Hacka?”
A lot of questions kept me busy like does Hacka enhance the “hit and run” playstyle in anyway or does it boost the dmg on bosses…

So now my questions:
Q0: @greyhiem
The crit graph that you linked for Swift Step, Sneak Hit and Critical Shot does it take the full benefit of Sneak Hit Lvl 5 / 15 or only 0,3 / 30% (Werewolf Cards) of the original ?

Q1:
Is the attack speed buff from Hakka Pelle (C2 Buff) noticeable and do pistols benefit from it ?

Q2:
Is the first or the second Circle of Hackapell stronger for a SR ?
I would go “Ar1 -> R3 -> Appr. -> SR3 -> Ar2 -> Hacka (R10)” if the first circle is all I need. (Good/bad idea?)

Q3:
By how much does Cavalry Charge increase the likelihood of a crit ?

PS:
I don’t care about it being more expensive or less effective than X or Y or Z but I fell in love with the SR playstyle. I wanted to make sure what Hacka brings to the table and if its a good addition (WITH sword skills!!!) or if I would never use any Hacka skills for this build.

If Hacka just doesn’t fit into the build or if you think there are better alternatives please say so (with “short” explanation) and I will make a thread about my problem (I don’t like BM - lol) because it wouldn’t have anything to do with Hackapell anymore.


#1388

Q1: Is the attack speed buff from Hakka Pelle (C2 Buff) noticeable and do pistols benefit from it ?
A: I believe this attack speed can apply to pistol.
But I will suggest you to ignore this speed buff.
As we know, SR’s attack speed have some threshold.
If this buff doesn’t make the attack speed cross the threshold, then it will be non-noticeable.
If it can, then just invest more DEX to make sure you can always cross that threshold.

Q2: Is the first or the second Circle of Hackapell stronger for a SR ?
I would go “Ar1 -> R3 -> Appr. -> SR3 -> Ar2 -> Hacka (R10)” if the first circle is all I need. (Good/bad idea?)

A:
I’m not sure what you expect to get from Hacka1.
For me, I will say hack1 only give you movement speed increase and some crit-rate boost.
If that’s what you want, then just tack it.

On the other hand, Since we will have 2 high rank space after SR3.
So It will be a little wast for me to take low rank career like Ar2 at this position.
Hack2 is a better choice than Ar1 hack1(or appr1 hack1) for me.

If you really want to boost SR’s performance, maybe you can try something like A1>R3>WuGu3>SR3.
which can provide the elemental damage on SR’s skill.

Q3:
By how much does Cavalry Charge increase the likelihood of a crit ?

A: I’m not sure on this question too, need @greyhiem or other’s help.

After all, talking about play style, Hacka is very different to SR.
In short, SR have smooth damage curve but Hack have impulse damage curve.

When we design a Hackapell build, we will consider what we want to do during the gap time between impulse. from this point of view, SR is a choose.

But when we consider build problem from SR point of view.
First idea will be how to improve SR’s performance since SR’s skill set can fill all your play time.
Take Hack or not will depend on the requirement of impulse damage boost.

These are my opinions for your reference.


#1389

Werewolf card used for sneak hit simulation. When you attack 100% from the back, the boost will be a lot better but it is impractical during solo play because mobs will face you automatically. No simulation for 100% back-attack sneak hit yet.

I will mention about investment and bulletmarker choice. I read and understand you do not mind investment and you dislike bulletmarker. The mention about investment & bullet is intended for other players who read the message, so please excuse that part of the reply.

Circle2 Hacka adds the stormbolt, skarp, and grind cutter for burst damage. However you will indeed require a sword-investment and you must move into melee range to hit the mobs. Hackapel2 would add 20-25s bursts damage inbetween your SR skills. Whether you think this extra burst damage is worth depends on the power of your sword.
The hackapel skills require AoE-attack ratio items for mobbing. Without high AoE gear they will be weak vs large groups of mobs. Please mind SR skills do not scale on AoE-attack ratio items.

SR is buffed a lot by Rank 10 patch.
image
The chance for this effect to occur is 5%. It’s great with SR multi-hit skills. This attribute has been added to the game already.

The cooldown of SR skills were lowered too, so it is possible to cycle between 2 skills and use less limacon (allows STR reiter builds too). Limacon will not be boosted by the planned attribute:
image
(note: this attribute is not available yet)

These buffs were implemented on KTOS with the rank 10 patch:

Reiter retreat shot:
(buff) cooldown changed to 20s. (OLD: 36s)
(nerf) no longer affected by krivis melstis or squire’s basecamp.

Marching shot:
(buff) cooldown changed to 15s. (OLD: 36s)
(nerf) no longer affected by krivis melstis or squire’s basecamp.

It is also possible to go full SR. Pick classes to support your 3 ranks of SR. This prevents investment into multiple weapons, just require pistol (and crossbow for stats & gem). Use green gem on crossbow and red gem on pistol.
Please note the full SR play depends heavily on Limacon, Retreat Shot, and Marching Fire. All remaining skills are supplementary buffs.

Rank 9 & 10 options for your full SR:

Text<<< click here

.Bulletmarker1: silver bullet buff does not dismount. Silver bullet buffs increases your SR damage by 50% vs Dark element mobs (most mobs and bosses in-game). Additionally you get Tase and Full metal jacket, both available for mounted stance. Max silver bullet, tase, and then full metal jacket. The remaining bullet marker1 skills dismount. Bullet marker requires a quest-chain completion to unlock.
.Hackapel1: mounted-dash (+10 movement speed), and cavalry charge debuff. Cavalry charge does not hit a lot of mobs unless you invest into AoE-attack ratio items. Please mind SR skills do not need AoE-attack ratio items at all. Leg shot debuff works on bosses to slow them a lot, but it will not be useful for mobbing. It is possible to just use the cavalry charge & leg shot skills and ignore sword (stormbolt, skarp) on this build.
.Lower rank fillers if you just need their buff skills: rogue1/2 (sneakhit), archer2 (swift step),
wugushi1 (zhendu buff, but it cannot stack with enchant fire) and latent venom & wugong gu (if you use velnia monkey card). Wugushi includes an attribute to make their skills scale on secondary-weapon (pistol). Requires poison-pot resource management and poison cannot crit.


@mikeee

Adds 35% true chance for a crit.
Example:
Your current crit chance on mob = 20% (this equals 150 crit rate, because 150^0.6 = ~20%). This example assumes 150 crit rate after mob’s crit-resistance.
Formula for crit chance% = (your critical rate - mob’s crit-resist)^0.6.

With cavalry charge debuff: 20% crit chance + 35% from cavalry debuff = 55% final crit chance.


#1390

Rank 10 KTOS hackapel2 (qs3 rogue1 falconer3 hackapel2) challenge mode 5 solo:

Quick-cancel Grind cutter functions a bit again!


#1391

Ktos?

  1. He still can’t keep up sp consumption with just shop+alchemist potion. Prolly no SPR invested/gear.
  2. And look awkward with Pheasant. I would cast Pheasant then only Roost so mob won’t destroy it. Prolly new to Falcon 3.
  3. Why no Ranger? Is it changed or something?
  4. How much the new Falconer attribute cost?
  5. Falcon3-Hacka2 legit <3

#1392

Yes, rank 10 patch has already been on ktos for 2 days.

Pheasant -> quick roost is best. However this player is experiencing delay due to the in-game recorder causing some lag.

That’s falconer after aiming changes. Boss size is a lot smaller but it’s not a severe nerf.

This is just a build test, will probably reset and try more builds. Ranger was not changed or nerfed. Almost all archer include ranger1 rank, this one’s an exception. Besides the reduction for SP costs, and the addition of new skills, these are the important implemented changes of rank 10 patch: pastebin here

New falconer3 attribute is not available yet.


#1393

Ok, I see.
I will probably go with Bullet Marker (R9/10) for my SR.

So basic attack(only limacon?) and SR Skills are not affected by AoE-Attack ratio ?
Sorry, AoE ratios are still kinda confusing for me.

Does a list for what is affected by AoE ratios exist ?

Edit:
Out of curiosity why does nearly nobody take Rogue2 (in PvE) for 100% sneakhit uptime and ~3,33% Crit chance, Backstab(Burst + massive Bleed) and Lachrymator (What does this skill even do) or Evasion ?

Edit2:
Is it possible to have negative crit chance ?


#1394

Hi GUys! Im not very informed about archers its the only class i havent played Seriusly So il ask you guys since im interested only in hackapel…I dont like AA qs3 Builds…Is Ranger 3 fletcher3 Or ranger 3 rogue 2/3 Viable For Competitive Pve Dps in high end content?Also if yes Whats the benefits Of Rogue 2/3 and whats the benefits of fletcher3? I would like to main hacka he seems very cool but i have Other chars for general use if he can only be built for a specific situation (BossKiller For example) .Last question How Should i prioritize invested Stats and gear stats In a non AA build like fletcher or rogue DO i go FOr str Or dex And green gems or red?Thx in advance