Tree of Savior

[Legacy Guide] [Outdated after Re:BUILD patch] Hackapell & Rogue Class Lounge


#1355

From my observation, I think if only 1 person shows rank, which always rank 1…that is bugged. I think this happened when party member dying around so dps rank messed up.

Normally if no one died, rank system is consistent imo unless cleric was paid to fade :stuck_out_tongue: I also never got rank 1 on my Debuff-Dragoon oriented with all party member alive. Normally only 3-4 with my +11 T7 spear. I know rank is overrated but it’s a good measure to know your DPS potential…if it’s accurate :frowning:


#1356

We know already hackapell have some serious issues and skillfactor is not enough to compete. If we had a 360 hard mode they would never be accepted xD
With archer rework you get 100 attributes every time you make a critical damage as long as you have ranger 1 (I doubt it’s intented so maybe fix * nerf later).
Let’s say your grindcutter does 10 000 damage, with no debuff and 0 critical attack you do 15 000, and now because ranger1 (bug?), 20 000 damage
On top of that ranger3 / fletcher3 does really insane damage so even with pied piper2 I would not be surprised about the “result”.
If we had a dps meter before archer rework, we could see the % damage from each skill, I’m pretty sure in the case of ranger3/fletcher3/hackapell2 without the ranger1 “buff” the % damage from hackapell would be really low.


#1357

Either IMC too generous or doesn’t know their stuff. But it’s been a while in ktos and I’m sure they got a lot of feedback from ktos player.

But then if solo play, you won’t have that much crit rate (unless Legend Marnox card) which makes the dps output way less than +50% overall damage. What makes the buff shine is when party play from many other class like -crit def and +crit rate.

Probably it was IMC decision to make archer/ranger as boss killer class while lacking aoe dps from low aoe atk ratio.


#1358

the +50% damage with the critical shot buff stacks is clearly intended. 1: it’s in the skill description. 2: they went through the effort of coding in a buff description when you hover your cursor over the buff icon - if it was meant to be a debuff to the enemy instead of a buff to yourself, then this wouldn’t be the case. i’d also argue that it’s not broken in the slightest. prior to this update, most of the archer tree was a joke, with only a few exceptions (bullet markers pull nice single target thanks to their holy property bullets, and falconers always welcome in CM, and a few others).

people have been crying out that it’s broken and might be fixed, but then the archer tree would be right back where it was. especially when you consider that the c2 ranger attribute isn’t that big of a boost over the base dps increase of steady aim (the +50% at c2 is 50% of the steady aim value, meaning steady aim is +15% at c2 and +22.5% at c3), as confirmed in the original details: https://treeofsavior.com/page/news/view.php?n=1361
without the crit shot stacks, all that fletcher and mergen get from investing 3 ranks into ranger is +22.5% damage which, while still nice, isn’t enough to make it a top tier dps vs bosses. i’m just happy that IMC finally decided to give archers some love with the crit shot stacks :slight_smile:


#1359

Agree with the above. I started Velco 1 month late cos I had bad internet but dps usually reserved to Warlock or heavy invested weapon. Before archer revamp, archer other Falconer3 and BM variant (and Musket maybe) won’t contribute much in Velco. Altho the way they implement it only with Ranger class a bit questionable but hey it worked out well for me.


#1360

Recommend to try it on your friend with friendly duel and ask to check def value. The highest value should apply first.


Archer is discussed a lot. Player Saka Exlimit made several simulations for archer skills.

Ranger’s Critical-shot-buff beats all

Ranger’s Critical Shot buff for crit is the best damage increase buff currently.
You need 200 crit rate (after enemy def) to make crit-shot buff defeat all other buffs, including maxed sneak hit. Final crit rate of 200 = ~25% crit chance.

This simulation shows damage increase (expressed as % difference from 100% base), and crit rate. Lines indicate the buffs.
Ranger Critical-shot-buff blue line.
Sneak hit max skill level, and low skill level (upper/lower limit), pink line.
Orange line swift step buff. The difference between swift step 10 and 15 is low, so it was averaged.

I put English on this graph for you to read.


Physical Attack vs Crit attack vs Mixed-increase: physical attack beats all

Regarding Phys attack vs Crit attack, it’s always stronger to have physical attack increase.

Simulation below shows equal phys atk and crit attack (8000) on character.
With 200 crit rate from gear + char level, vs 200 enemy crit resist.
11k physical def enemy taken for simulation.

Average DPS numbers are compared to find the stronger option. Higher number = stronger option.
A phys attack of 10k (+2000 from base of 8000) beats a big increase of +8000 (final 16k) crit attack.






Phys atk increase beats mix-increase of equal-total value too.


It is possible to correct for all archer cards/buffs/debuffs on the simulation but it does not matter which cards/buffs/debuffs are used, the result is similar: phys atk beats crit attack, and phys atk beats mix-increase.
For PvE damage you should not go DEX (crit attack) unless you need attack speed (quarrel-builds, reiter).


What are good budget-friendly non-support farm/slave builds in each tree? :ok_hand:
#1361

Hmm is the excel shared since it’s only based on low crit rate.

They are party synergy which almost makes all your attack crit just like Fencer’s video I posted above. Party has -crit resist from Masi bow+Matador+Chrono+Hacka, +crit rate from Chrono+Archer2 and +crit chance from Hacka.


#1362

-crit resist can’t make it go negative, minimum is zero


#1363

There is a shared one but in Korean. I am adapting it for iTOS.
Edit (a new version was published, so I have to redo it).


#1364

guys this is the best archer forum <3


#1365

Changes to infinite assault

Hi everyone, the infinite assault skill was changed (not on patch notes).
Now 2 hits (still Strike damage), 25s cooldown, and lower SP costs.
Target limit buffed to 12 targets (from 8).

image

OLD stats:
damage Lv5 around 1015%. Amount of hits = 3.
Attack type = Physical Strike.
Target limit = 8.


Rank 10 class info and discussion
#1366

So it was 1x3 fake multihit…we will see 2x3 fake multihit?

Imo this skill only created cos people complaining that Hacka don’t have much aoe skill. Aoe atk ratio easily resolved with gear or party play.

They coulda make the skill like Mergen’s Zenith plus Reti’s Blandir Cadena. Zenith if single target is godlike 13000% and Reti’s Slash/Pierce type. Randomly hit x amount of hit and dual or triple type of attack should fit the skill name more and the class multi weapon user.

New changes still give low damage%. Meh…hopefully more Plate type monster in R10.


#1367

So old is 1015% x 3 and new is 1789% x 2? 533% buff
Still a poor skill, but I guess since it’s just 5 points, I suppose I’ll still add it.


#1368

and @Zenigame
It is also buffed to 2 overheat (from 1). I would definitely take it.

AoE Size

Cavalry Charge new size

Also stormbolt enhance attribute was not added (or removed again).

And sapper/wugushi secondary_weapon attack attributes use Hackapel-sword to calculate damage. Sapper+mount is difficult but wugushi+mount is ok if you give up on jincan and gu pot. Tried archer2 ranger1 wugushi3 appraiser Hackapel3, sad about no-crits on poison but it works as a single-weapon (sword) investment build (no weapon swap). The other single-weap investment build is archer2 ranger1 quarrel1 rogue3 hackapel3, but AoE is very low. Equipping crossbow+shield and leaving crossbow+sword on auto-swap. Note: leveling these builds still requires crossbow or bow, but once you reach hackapel1 you may invest into 1 single weapon (sword).

Ranger3 Fletcher3 hackapel3 still (one of?) highest damage hacka build (bow main hand, and crossbow+sword on auto-swap).


#1369

great info :slight_smile:


#1370

New (current) (real-time speed, no speed-up)

Old:


Full offensive?
.Highest damage choice of hackapel skillpoint distribution
.Highest SP cost
.Drop storm bolt to 13/15 if you need lower stamina cost on pet-dash (take hakka palle 1)
.Enhance damage attribute on stormbolt does not exist (yet)





Hakka Palle buff?
.Melee evasion buff
.Attack speed boost useful on reiter and quarrel shooter
.Lowers SP cost on hacka skills by 50%
.20s immunity to knockback and knockdown with Hakka Palle attribute (for Hakka Palle level 6 & 6+), but cooldown is 60s
.Weaker than full offensive option
.4/15 Storm bolt’s debuff duration is on 100% up-time



To compare:
Hacka3 SP costs of maxed skills are around 250 per use (for stormbolt 13~15, skarp 15, assault 5, grind cutter 10). Hakka Palle 10 is highest cost, at around 350. Leg shot and cavalry charge are rarely leveled beyond 1 (lowest cost).
Archer SP pool base (no SPR or SP from gear) at 380: around 3400.
SP cost should not be a big problem if you are using pots, even on full offensive build.
Worried about SP? Options/considerations: get SPR on gear, or +SP on gear, party play: linker3 friend to share SPR stat through Spiritual Chain&Lifeline, squire food buff.


#1371

It is also buffed to 2 overheat (from 1)

Ahh then this definitely makes it a fairly decent skill. I wouldn’t call it poor anymore.

Why does the AOE screenshot have ‘1,1’ to one puppet but ‘2’ to the other?


#1372

I’d still max Hackapelle Buff,even if the Pain Barrier doesn’t last that long.

If you use any combination of Critical Shot/Glass Mole/Spiral Arrow it’s essential to not lose the burst timing, the buff is easy to use, on demand.Better than depend uniquely on Glazing Golem procs.

About Wugushi,it’s not that bad if you get an easy to use hotkey to mount again, the real downside is losing any buffs that need Mounted to be used(they simply get removed when you dismount).I can still use Throw Gu Pot on my SR,just gotta remember to re-use Limacon when u get up.


#1373

Hello and first of all thank you for the nice Guide but… I still have a few questions.
All questions can and should be answered with R10 Update in mind because it will take me quite some time to reach higher levels.

Q1:
Is QS3 - Running shot that good even in the later stages of the game ?
I feel like it’s not worth 3 Circles just for 1 skill.
Q2:
How exactly does Falconner work and is it even useful with Hackapell 1 ?
Can you sit on top of the bird ?

Q3:
How good is the AoE of an average Hackapell compared to other classes and is it good enough without heavy investments ?

Q4:
Would you recommend a Hackapell for a beginner (with lots of time for grinding) ?


#1374

Yes. RS is useful for luring mobs+AA filler. AA filler is actually very strong for end game content if you stack enough elemental damage+blessing+extra lines

Circling, Pheasant Burst, AIming (if Falc3>hacka1/2 on R10)
Can’t sit on top of the bird.

IMO it’s quite bad unless you have falc and aoe atk ratio gear. Also depends on your base build before hackapelle

No, two/three/four weapon investment class.