Tree of Savior Forum

KToS General Thread v3.0 LOL

General Discussion
#2185

I’m not saying it’s a nerf. I specifically highlighted the fact that the patch will probably increase the amount of viable builds. However, it’s drastically changing one of the most fun and interesting skills in the game into something boring. Frost Pillar is (was) the kind of skill that people see used in trailers or videos and it makes them actually interested in the game because it just straight up looks fun. A lot of my friends rolled Cryos because Frost Pillar and Snow Rolling looked fun to use (and were - thankfully Snow Rolling is mostly unchanged and is now even C2 which is good because it opens up more builds). In-game it’s also got a somewhat unique and well appreciated utility in the way it gathers mobs up. Cryo loses a lot of its character with this change as well as a lot of its desirability in parties as far as being a class that can bring something unique and powerful to a party. What it gains in return isn’t fun or interesting. Hence, it’s homogenizing the game.

Let me put it another way: They could replace Frost Pillar with a skill that just kills every mob on your screen and has 0 cooldown. Would that be a buff? Duh. Would it be an interesting or good change? Obviously not. The goal of game design isn’t just to make everything stronger. There’s no point to every class being strong if they’re all boring and basically do the same thing. At that point you might as well have a game with one class.

3 Likes
#2186

I feel you, man. I don’t know what’s on their mind, but ever since the R9 announcement, all interesting classes are losing their uniqueness. ToS really fell for the trap, it’s just a game of numbers now.

Concerning Corsair, they also added some buffs to dagger Corsairs:
image

But whatever, with Unlock Chest removed and Pillaging nerfed more and more, there’s no point in trying to be a pirate anymore…

They had the opportunity to fix the broken mess that Shinobi is, but they made it even worse instead. The gap between Shinobis and the DPS classes from other trees will only increase. Clerics and Wizards at least are good for AoE DPS, but what about Archers? If you’re not Falc3, you’ll just be a joke, because no matter how much you invest on your character, your damage will never come close as Shinobi’s damage. I loved playing with Hackapell in the R8 content, but there’s nothing for them now.

3 Likes
#2187

@SlyGoat

Welp, can’t argue with the fun aspect. Unfortunately most of fun skills are either impractical, too hard to balance or buggier than what they can fix…

Honestly i don’t know how big the magnet zone is within Frost Pillar, but if the new one can still freeze everything within the same area i think it isn’t that bad, it will still do the job but without gathering mobs (which can be done with other classes).

The issue here is that if you don’t compensate for the nerf it will be almost like a targeted stop (even if you can deal damage to them), knowing that a lot of builds take both Cryo and Chrono it’s quite a thing, ironically they made it into Flame Pillar ice version.

Paladin rework gave me some hope, from what i see it seems like they’re doing reworks as experiments (not that the new class/rank wasn’t) to figure out how to do it, seems like the stategy is to fix the major issues for now instead of preserving uniqueness (a dangerous move). It might be too optmistic of me to think like that tho, but they might change already reworked classes again.

#2188

Honestly the problem with this ■■■■ is IMC was way too ambitious when they set out to make this game. They’re a tiny ass company trying to juggle a stupid amount of classes. Any reasonably well managed MMO would have a small team dedicated to the balance of every single class, but since this game has so many classes and so few staff members they probably have one small design team trying to work on everything at once, which is just a disaster.

3 Likes
#2189

Well, now Fencer build will be 100% nobi path. Matador users (me) will be sad.

BTW, this artwork now makes tons of sense!

7 Likes
#2190

Don’t get me wrong I absolutely love frost pillar as it is I’d still like to give this new version a chance before judging it considering the freeze is a lot better. Also in all honesty cryo being solely a class for frost pillar was kinda lacking in terms of class usage. Not to mention current frost pillar is such a cakewalk.
Snow rolling change is the one that really shines considering the larger size and the amount of targets that you can pull (5times increase is huge) will be really high so cryo will most likely still retain a high grouping potential. Instead of pressing one button you have to do something instead which I don’t find bad at all.
In short, cryo might actually be a lot more interactive class with more personality and finally some more damage too.

I might be wrong too but I’d like to see it in action first.

Also all this ‘‘all swordsman will be shinobi, how can other classes compete’’ complaining. I’d like to see how clones fare in terms of damage after the nerfs before jumping into conclusions. Also if it’s too strong there’s a possibility it will be nerfed even further, these are not definitive changes.

Also isn’t pistol corsair users buffed too for hexen dropper and dust devil too? Not like they made pistol corsairs any worse or anything. o-o

Also I’m sure archers will get more rebalancing done, I don’t get why people assume(or are just way too upset) they’re just forgotten or something. Not to mention archer still have multiple great classes other than falconer 3. lol

3 Likes
Sorcerer Info Megathread
#2191

Not the point. Corsair is a weak class that needs actual substantive buffs, especially to its god-awful utility skills since it was meant to be a utility class to begin with. It’s like if they “buffed” Cataphract by giving them a new attack skill that only works with a sword, and also can’t be used while mounted. It’s just a random nonsense change.

2 Likes
#2192

The problem about Snow Rolling is that you need to move around to gather mobs and at the end of the skill they’re scattered around you. Frost Pillar was great to regroup them after using Snow Rolling. Magnetic Force only gathers a handful of mobs (could be good with the buff to its AoE attack ratio though + Circling) and Dimension Compression can only pull 8 targets, so it’ll be hard to find a good replacement.

The “nerfs” to Shinobi clones are meaningless. With all enhance attributes at lvl 100, your skills deal 900% (150% x 6 characters) damage. With enhance attributes not being applied to Shinobi clones, you’ll deal 650% (150% x 1 character + 100% x 5 clones) damage instead. Any Swordie player would be crazy to not pick Shinobi (unless they can’t, like Lancer and Dragoon 3) now. There’s simply nothing in the Swordsman tree that adds as much damage as Shinobi does to your build.

1 Like
#2193

Not that I don’t agree with the need of buffs to especially utility, I think you’re reaching so hard on your example tho. Corsair can use daggers with no issues and the rest of its kit works well with it. Whether dagger damage will be enough is another question to be asked but that could change really.

What if some players actually want to play a dagger corsair? :x

Pillar and rolling could still work nicely together due to the freeze.
A good replacement doesn’t exist I know that and it could be for the worse, but honestly an entire class based on a single cakewalk skill is silly. I hope it’s for the better.

It could be they are meaningless but before pulling any numbers it would be great to actually have the numbers, clones may not even have 100% ratio.

I do have to admit that I am concerned that it will be too strong and it would not even be nerfed but as of now it’s too early to say, better wait for the patch to hit ktest first.

1 Like
#2194

All for one circle investment, too.

#2195

Same garbage reasoning used for screwing with circling. Instead of fixing the crash bug they simply gutted the skill.

4 Likes
#2196

If it’s the same you give to yourself… It’s probably going to be good with full necro. If all the necro buffs come in that’s 10 skels with AoE ratio 6-7 and buffed up with swell left? Put on a full set of SPR/INT and that’s a hell of a lot of dmg. I’m wondering… If it’s just going to apply the swell left… Cause that’s what I’d really want… Then you could do the 2.2x dmg with shrink…

@Slygoat the kinos will likely be picking up the gatherer role a bit with magnetic force changes… But it does tighten the Wizard trees… I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kino/linkers either that just cycle the new Magnetic force -> pole/raise/gravity, and JP. It does seem like they don’t want more then 11 mobs being gathered at once though.

#2197

See you tomorrow, Savior.

#2198

Nice to see CryoChronos having to jump ship and actually think of a build xD

2 Likes
#2199

These changes suck. Lots are anti-fun, especially paying for materials to use skills, which discourages people from using skills and feels like a punishment for playing the game. Right now I cast sorcerer cats as cosmetics in town and people love kitties. Obviously that’s not going to happen at 2000 silver each. I won’t bother casting it inside easy dungeons, either. Chronos got it even worse. If I had a chrono, I’d just sit around without using any of my skills now. I doubt chronos will be casting haste and pass on me whenever they can, which means I miss out on some of the most fun buffs in the game.

Materials also add a bunch of weight, which is a real nuisance now that we’re constantly getting loaded with heavy equipment in challenge modes.

Balance-wise, they’re making things worse. Unique utility gets nerfed, shinobis will be the standard in common swordsman builds, and gameplay will be more homogenized.

“Personality” my **. The current frost pillar is unique, fun, and interesting. It’s one of the most high-personality skills in the game. It’s being turned into frost cloud with freezing, which is rather generic. As for damage, the video shows a glowing masinios staff and it still ticks for very little. There’s no way it’ll be competitive with the real dps-oriented class skills, and if it were, wouldn’t that be worse game balance than the old setup?

Remember when the combat system rework turned sorcerer damage into trash and you were defending that? And you said one doppel should do more damage than 5 sorcerers?

Clearly you’re a doppel worshipper who wants wizards to be gimped.

Snow rolling scatters the mobs afterwards and prevents you from using other skills while rolling. It doesn’t replace frost pillar. At least the bigger snowballs sound great, although they might get stuck in narrow terrain if the new casting bar doesn’t give us an option to change the size anymore.

Anyway, overall, this patch sucks and maybe we’ll need a classic ToS server.

3 Likes
#2200

These are not even on the test yet.
Snow roll with the new maximum level 10 will have 1 second fixed time cast at all levels and 50% extra pull size. We do not know if we can combo snowroll with FP’s lock to avoid the knockdown yet. Or if they have any class in mind that will use daggers in the near future to compliment the new corsair. Or a class with pistol.

Also, shinobi’s clones will not inherit your damage enhance attributes and damage buffs now to balance the changes out.

#2201

Not to interrupt your spat (I don’t care about PvP). But PvE wise… As a wizard you’re only giving up 1.2k matk to do SPR. When your base weapon alone has 4-5k matk it really doesn’t mater much… Tack on armor with some form of SPR + Int/Matk/Mamp/Con mixed, bless, sharpening, party buffs that 1.2k means even less. The leveling experience is different but the 350+ becomes more similar to Int/Con builds the longer you play it.

The best in slot support build for Wizard that fits with every party composition did get a nerf. The other 3 support wizard classes with vacuum skills will be filling that hole. You will have 2 weeks to figure it out and Koreans will have already figured it out months ahead. An unchanneled constantly refreshing vacuum effect with no AoE limit was a little stupid. So yeah you get ice cubes. Storm gust did the same thing and it was pretty damn iconic.

#2202

I love how delusional you are. :joy:(Where did I say one doppel should do more than 5 sorcerer?)

If you go so back on my posts maybe you should’ve checked that like a large majority of them are in the sorcerer thread where I have even said recently I main cryo3sorcerer3sage2.

Unlike you I just take what we get and I try to assess to the situation the best I can.

I’ve also stated multiple times that i absolutely love current frost pillar but the change might not be as bad for the class as people think.

I mean recent changes have hit my build hard with the sorc aggro nerf and now the cryo pull. But why would I whine about it before I get to even test how these changes work in actual gameplay?

So honestly really, before claiming something so utterly ridiculously stupid and ignorant you should at least do a little backround check. You just made yourself look like a fool.

6 Likes
#2203

Wrong. Val is clearly a fuzzy hedgehog who wants to talk about changes before jumping ship.

6 Likes
#2204

The forum says you’re replying to me but this doesn’t relate to the discussion, and nobody mentioned spr since your last post. In case it’s about the other thread I linked, you must have seen how the full sentence was talking about full spirit builds:

You’d also have seen how the discussion happened when the things you’re talking about didn’t exist, before the devs made several changes I was asking for, including armor that can have those mixes of stats and blessing without a hit limit.

Why is it stupid, because everything needs to be weakened until it doesn’t matter what classes are in the party? If they wanted mobs to escape the effects they could add mobs that reversi the tree or more elites that can fight through it. Never heard of storm gust, but it seems you’re saying the new pillar is a copy/paste of it? Even more generic than I thought.

I just quoted the place where you said that. Really ironic how you say “delusional” when you’re in denial over a quote of your own words with links providing context. At least that’s proof you’re completely dishonest. I hit the nail on the head.

Because once it gets released over here it’s too late, just like it was last time (which is the point of mentioning it), and the preview/testing period exists specifically to raise concerns like this. You’re basically obstructing the development process by telling people not to provide feedback until the process is over.

Val calls in Valkoria to add another reply a few minutes later, you can’t make this stuff up.

1 Like