It’s been that way since the 2nd patch I believe.
I am making some points concerning Fencer changes here, in the old Fencer now mixed with Doppel thread: Guide to Fencer / Doppel [PVE]
I am a somewhat early Fencer player since CBT and since then gave a lot of my attention because I love Rapier-themed classes.
The problem with the Fencer changes is not a problem of [Getting the same output damage]. IMC devs made sure that with this update pretty much every DPS build can achieve the sufficient damage you need. Or in other words, everyone is doing 555k damage, in their own way.
The problem here is that Fencer is a demerit based class. You lose common advantages in order to use the Rapier. Such demerits are: low synergy, low durability, low range (and therefore giving more risk), 0 to low AOE, non-shield demanding and focus on skills usage (in order to understand this, look at attribute Rapier:Aggression which is unchanged).
What is happening is that those updates are transforming Fencer in the specialized DPS, which would be OK if Spears wouldn’t do the EXACT same thing, but without demerits (or the majority of them). And not that, all swordsman classes can pretty much achieve the same damage without having any inconveniences, as their weapons can auto attack better, can be used with a shield without losing too much, etc.
And then comes the question that I find myself repeating: why the heck would you play a Fencer now, aside from you liking the class?
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On ktos is fireball still oversized and 1 hit only?
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I think the better question would be: What content available in the game currently discourages bringing a fencer over say, any spear-using class?
As you said, their DPS is there. You can build around having a fencer ‘carry’ as one of your DPS in ET, just need a falcon3 or linker3 which is similar to any melee DPS-oriented group.
I would argue that spear-based swordies are the 2nd lowest DPS option for an ET group, with the lowest being any form of Murmillo.
Epee Garde nerf was necessary so the class wouldn’t focus around that one skill.
Now Lolo/Solmik types of Rapier remain the strongest,but the gap to the 315 ones isn’t as bad as before.
Would not a Doppel, which pretty much is designed for PVE, be the only efficient option? (by efficient I mean healthy silver/DPS and convenience)
I’m not going to insert PVP talk here because GMs already informed that this will be the next balance project.
Epee Garde is already null because critical for swordsman is near impossible to achieve. Remember, in order to use Rapiers, the only buffs that we have that gives some crate is the barbarian cleave, which is pretty much nothing.
Epee Garde already lost its use with the update and now they nerfed it even more.
But, let’s put here the real issue, because damage is the wrong focus. The problem here is that Fencer is losing its identity. Before, making a Fencer was critical specialization which is something nice, because it was not the same critical. Now it is, and even less frequent. Or, in a more direct way, you payed demerits in order to have the strongest critical.
Now, they removed this strong critical, but we still pay the same demerits. See the problem?
As some said regarding other classes, Fencer needs a redesign. Maybe Epee Garde could give crate instead of damage? Maybe they could focus on what Fencing is really about, which is attacking and dodging/defending while cleverly hitting weak spots.
What actually proves my point are those side-skill buffs. They are trying to balance the demerits making the Rapier-skills more strong, which they will fail, because the problem is not on the skill damage but rather on the efficiency.
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Well…yeah but there has always gotta be a ‘best’ at something unless you want all the classes to be homogenized.
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fencer fix seems obvious to me, fix the defensive buffs. toucher is a horrible skill with a good bonus, and prep is horrible to use too. if prep worked better against multiple hits and magic. if flanconade lasted a little longer and had a hit count instead it’d be much nicer.
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On the other hand, we are aware that there are classes which rely on critical attack and we understand the value of Yellow Gems is important, which is why we added critical rate options to all the new Hunting Grounds 270 and 315 physical attack weapons, and we’ll continue to apply similar options to new items, skills and attributes.
They did say that they were being conservative right now on crit rate so there’s a slight chance in conjunction of the epee nerf, they will give us some attributes or crit rate increase on skills in the future. Or they could increase the 0.6 for everyone.
It doesn’t help that spears generally suck, too. Even the orange 315 spear is basically the worst of the 315 weapons to the point where I think the purple version might be moderately better than the orange. They have the classic problem of lower base damage in exchange for “bonus damage vs. medium/large enemies” which theoretically makes them better against large enemies and worse against small ones, except that bonus damage cannot scale with transcendence so they end up being worse against everything, which is yet another reason the transcendence system sucks.
Hope they keep changing, because currently Fencer is best at nothing.
I can’t agree more. Fencer should be a high mobility defensive class, like Doppel is an extension to two handed.
Or they could make Rapiers like the Ragnarok’s Katar, which doubles the critical chance.
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Well here is to hoping that IMC recognizes just how broken and obnoxious the trans system is, or works to give spears better itemization.
yes
still that oversized and 1 hit kill aoe firebomb
not really 1 hit kill, but yeah, you get the idea.
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For Fencers, what if:
Preparation is changed to a buff that guarantees critical attack for up to X attacks in some durations.
The multiplier should be fairly high given that it’s only piercing attacks + limited charges/duration + on decently long CD.
And it’d also make a nice contrast to Doppel’s DoV, where DoV is now just damage buff for also taking more damage, Prep becomes a move that you use when you’re about to go full combo.
I don’t have Fencer so I don’t know if it’s a 1 point skill atm or a max one.
If it’s 1 point:
New version could have flat amount of charges, with leveling just adding duration for how long you can hold the charges (like say 5+2s/lvl)
If it’s a max:
New version could gains more charges with level.
This is similar to the suggestion I made, which is making Epee Garde a critical rate increase instead.
Your suggestion would make taking only 2 ranks valid though, which would create some versatility, like a Corsair2>Fencer2.
But I don’t know if that would work with what the devs had in mind, which is versatility of builds, as a guaranteed critical attack makes the need of critical rate no more, which would make you pump on gems and equips that focus on damage only, or would give more freedom do Fencers be tank while dealing cap damage, which is kinda unbalances the class to the other side.
Not that I don’t like your idea, just trying to simulate what the devs response would be.
Maybe if we change guaranteed critical to critical rate buff instead? It could also be a Riposte mechanic, if you hit the Fencer during the channeling, he counterattacks with a guaranteed critical or gets a buff that highly increases the chance for a given time. (but I think that would be the same thing as it is now)
These combat changes are only a patch (ohh the irony…) the major problems, there are new balance issues now at kToS (like overbuffed Alchemist and Highlander) for classes that offer too much for their ranks and/or roles, these will probably be addressed later this year if not next year (probably after R9 release…).
It’s a shame that IMC didn’t went further with additional primary stats as they did to maces, that would add quite some expression to swordsmen, 2h wielders and future weapons (Monks fanatics could finally get knuckles) aside rock-paper-scissors.
Fletcher late game is the monster
demonstration solo damage 37:00 and 102:20.
First recorder 40F after combat changes
now you know how sadhus feel
Shinobi Cloned Moulinet.
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Now these are good changes!
ABE looks great. I like the sinergy with Kabba (i was already doing a character for Double Chance), the only concern is that we hit on the Double Chance hit radius, that is terrible in my opinion, you can see it in the video. But this is for other thread, not this one.
Possession was already the best thing you could get from Sadhu, now is even better with the changes.
Transmit Prana kinda looses the skill role, I would like to have the buff damage as an attribute instead of this way, but is another thing to convince me to go for Sadhu 3.
Good job IMC!! Now just give us something for OoB, like a damage increase (i read that the Transmit Prana buff does not work with spirit’s auto attack, is that right?) and/or some skills for the spirit to use and/or changes on the defense drop on the body while in spirit form (maybe keep only the equipment defences. Make sense?). With some of this, the class would be complete nice and viable my opinion.