From fedimian mission only videos they honestly both look pretty balanced. If that’s actually the case then the answer to your question would depend on what armor type the class is up against.
Pretty much not enough info is out yet. Give it a day or two and there will probably be enough videos from both classes with end game gear to make a solid decision
thank you for the complete answer
With the new updates to armor reduction skills, even if they currently do not provide much benefit, can coquille and skull swing stack now? It causes somewhat of a redundancy issue now but hl3 might be an extremely good pick for fencers in the latest ktos update, especially if skull swing and coquille can work together instead of cancelling each other out.
Man … just play what you like more.
Nerfs/Rebalance will come and go.
I dont like Rapier/Fencer so i will stay doppel (Fits me way more)
And R9 is commig soon.
Some people determine what they like more based on DPS? There’s really nothing wrong with that.
Welcome to different people having different mindsets
What, this thread became a Doppel mixed thread? The ■■■■ Lostac had in mind.
Anyway, I gave a time and returned somewhat a month ago. Though I did not visit the forums till now.
I decided to make a case here after the clarifications in the recent Q&A concerning fencers and critical rate. I will say sorry because it will be a long text.
Ahn, at first I thought it was like “Fencer are going to be screwed” like some people was thinking. Well, this is wrong even without the videos, for a specific reason.
Fencer skills are working the exact same way as the other classes in terms of output damage, so it will have the same merits and demerits, with the only difference being the damage style (which is single target damage).
The only thing that I’m noticing is that critical chance is not something that you can count on anymore. I mean, if at least there were sword classes that were giving some critical rate in % like archers have (and as far as I looked on ktos base, there are none) it would be fine.
My conclusion is that Epee Garde will not be relevant at all. I though this skill would be remade to give more critical rate, but no, it still gives the crit atk bonus.
Unless there are some way of dealing critical strikes frequently, nobody will be making that anymore for Fencer. I mean, they will, but that will be like, a bonus.
I know there will be items that will make for it, but for what price? Fencer already pay a lot having 0 synergy with everything else. I heard that they want to Fencers to autoattack, which demands a change in Rapier Aggression, otherwise it will be dumb do autoattack with Rapier, even if it has more durability.
And the last question, aside from you loving Fencing, why would you do a Fencer now? Frankly, if spears were a strong pierce damage option, now they are the only efficient option. Just put it on paper, there is no reason to use a Rapier now, aside from your preference.
One thing that could be different is changing the damn defensive aspects of Fencer skills, giving more of the effect of “cleverly defending and dodging while attacking in the weak spot” which Fencing is about.
Anyway, sorry about the text wall.
Well ist definitly true that we cant reach 100% crit chance, but given the current formula its easy and with good gear it possible to reach ~ 50% Crit chance which is still fine. We might not need Venier or Lolopanther Rapier cuz +2 Fencer skills isnt that strong anymore.
Also we dont have 0CD Skill on Attaque Composee - which means we might need other DPS Classes to fill in on our rotation. -> Which further decrease the value of Epee Garde. (We dont have 100% Pierce Dmg only Skills)
Atm im thinking of changing back to my Highlander Fencer i made back in those days of R7.
Something like Highlander 3 - Barb1- Fencer 3 might be very good for a DPS option. (This is definitly what i wanna try when the patch hits us)
Also Fencer was never screwed - only because we just saw some guys with white weapons on ktest dealing 0 Dmg means its that way… We all know Fencer is a class which requires a lot of gear to work.
I definitly think this patch will bring in Fencers even more. Its not that boring Gameplay with Attaque Composee all day long. We might have some interesting combinations of classes which works together.
Back in R8 Epee Garde and 0 CD just killed any diversion in builds, cuz it would be perfetly fine to be just Fencer 3, nothing else was required.
Also it looks like Spear Type classes are not that strong anymore. Stats on those weapons are far inferior to the nw orange Fencer rapier…
45-50% critical chance is absolutely within the realm of possibility for end game players, and most people are “fortunate” enough to have that right now. Epee will be fine
The price is really only two things: Using full leather armor (which a LOT of fencer players already do anyway) and switching to green gems. New practonium rapier not really worth it depending on the threshold of crit chance you’re currently at.
Auto attacking with fencer is actually not as bad as it may sound, especially depending on your class build. This update actually gives MORE synergy to with every other class build. In fact this update forces fencer into being not a standalone class anymore.
For example, an auto attack heavy dex build will give amazing synergy with frenzy, and new frenzy seems really good. Also, highlander2 and above combined with fencer has amazing combo potential right now. DPS of this seems a bit lacking, but without armor penalties being an issue anymore, I think highlander and fencer is an extremely viable combo now too - this update just makes sword3 a lot less viable because you have a lack of offensive abilities with that path. I am fine with this.
Because fencer is actually still extremely high DPS, and the skillcap has gotten higher as well with the potential for comboing with previous circles. Honestly fencer seems a LOT more fun to play now compared to just doing nothing but casting compo.
This is true. I haven’t seen many players using it, but I believe esquive toucher is one of the high skillcap skills I’m referring to now. It is one of the few skills left that still scales defensively with a percentage, so using it at the right time with the right stat build can potentially be life saving. Also, if dex affects flanconnade attack speed (The patch notes don’t say anything about this, but videos make it seem like it does) then the invincibility buff flanconnade provides suddenly becomes humanly timeable and viable.
I thought about highlander but the hit box is kinda meh atm on my highlander. I might stay on hoplite or barb.
What made them strong were not the weapons, but their mechanics, durability and IMC blessing. I mean, they still have free crit chance, free AOE ratio, free range.
This happened not because of Epee Garde, but because Fencer is itself a bad class. Back on R7, Fencer was a masochist choice, high SP cost for mid damage with high risk, as you can’t survive in extreme situations, because the only thing a Fencer could do was killing a single target enemy with low efficiency. Epee Garde and full dex saved Fencer in the meta, making its cost equivalent to the damage.
But all of that can be countered by crit resistance equipment. The class must have something to add to make the difference. Maybe Balestra Fente would suffice, but I don’t know how efficient that skill will be in the new scenario. If it gives an equal boost as archers are having, then we could say that there is a hope
And there is also the magic stomp issue. I don’t use leather today because if I don’t use cloth, I can do nothing to counter it. Of course, the idea of that combat system change is to make damage fair, but frankly, from the damage tables and formula and the damn fact that we still don’t have NOTHING to mitigate magic damage + the fact that SP cost will be hell now, are you sure leather armor will be an option?
Pardon my pessimism, but I can’t see quite well this revamp working for critical damage based non-spear swordsman.
I’m not saying it is bad, it may be feasible, but there is no advantage in doing it. Like I said, unless there is something that makes it equal to auto attacking with a spear, doing that will be dumb.
I see no advantage in auto attacking with a 0 AOE attack ratio, rangeless and low durable weapon type.
I hate Barbarian in a Fencer build. Though it is not a problem here, just me being childish.
Well, that is one build, which is the high STR. But a high STR build fits more a 2h sword like Doppel, not Fencer. There is nothing in the Fencer build that boosts with STR directly. Maybe Epee Garde, but criting is not that accessible anymore.
All the numbers shown in videos are from STR builds, I saw nothing related to Epee Garde. And I’m sorry, if you are just pumping damage and using the skill% and no more, you’re no different than a Doppel, which does this job a lot better.
Epee is there to be used and to not use is to not be a Fencer. At least as the class is now, with poor defensive skills.
Does this imply you’re speaking in terms of PvP only then? If so I apologize because I was talking about everything strictly within the scope of PvE
Same thing here, sounds like a PvP problem. In PvE, at least for me anyway, I have never touched cloth. Not before the gem update and not after. Of course, after the gem update, magic def becomes pretty easy to obtain a large quantity of. I don’t have any issue with magic damage, so it sounds like a funding issue here then. Unless of course, you mean PvP in which case I’ve got nothing still. SP consumption is not an issue either. Having a larger SP pool from my testing does not make much of a difference once you have a reasonable amount. This makes sense too because as long as you aren’t overfilling your SP bar potions are already accomplishing their effective maximum potential. SP recovery is almost entirely useless because it doesn’t work while in combat. Unless you’re sit cheesing (DPS loss), it won’t amount to much. I’m not worried about magic doing too much damage either because ALL pieces now give def/mdef. So not a PvE issue.
[quote=“migliole, post:6731, topic:300257”]
I see no advantage in auto attacking with a 0 AOE attack ratio, rangeless and low durable weapon type.[/quote]
uhhh 1v1? Bossing? In my opinion, and also the reason why I chose this class, is fencer is designed to be a 1v1 class. As far as range goes, I also have to say it doesn’t matter. You have to effectively use all of your skills to play fencer properly (especially after the update). For example, this includes one of the most important skills (currently), coquille. Coquille has almost no range. This still sounds like its within the scope of PvP. In PvP yeah I can see how this would be an issue. PvE? Not so much. So apologizing in advance again…
Durability isn’t an issue with squire repairs. I can run multiple ET sessions with one venier and still have durability assuming I don’t die.
That’s true, but you can make the same argument for people who run dex doppels now. There’s nothing in the doppel tree that directly scales with dex, yet there’s plenty of doppels who go full/high dex. Not because of how their class mechanics work, but just because it’s optimal in general.
It’s important to note that it’s not like they are 100% full strength. They have a lot of points invested into dex as well, and the meta is still currently being figured out. For me personally, I am probably going to go full dex or a few reasons. Primarily, your stats don’t really influence your damage too much anymore; it’s mostly based on the weapon equipped. That leaves room for stat balance. Which again, is what this update aimed to achieve. Instead of it being optimal to pump all your stat points into one stat, the goal is to make them distributed in multiple stats (depending on the class being played of course). As far as epee garde, one reason they aren’t using it isn’t because it’s bad, but there’s a couple reasons I can think of
Their gear isn’t acclimated yet. These guys still have to transition from likely red gems over to green, as well as get new gear in general. There are a ton of people with solmiki and lolopanther leather. Give it a week or two in kr and you’ll see these guys hit many crits.
The videos are so short that there’s no need to use epee. Maybe just showing off their non crit damage for fun.
I find this to be incorrect. I think they’re both rather balanced in the current ktos version. Just one is more inclined to do AoE, and one is more inclined to do 1v1 damage. They can both accomplish both if built and played properly though. Depends on players personal goals again.
Absolutely true, but them not using it should make you think why they aren’t. They have it hotkeyed, they have plenty of buff slots, and it takes almost no time to cast. They still crit as well, it’s not like they don’t crit at all. I’m sure they realize what they are doing.
Although I am indeed adding PVP here, PVE is also a point I make. Though I would say PVE is not an big issue, as bossing is not that competitive as it is woth some other games. But I will focus on PVE then, after all, the GMs said themselves that TBL balance and such is going to come after this update.
Fencer being a 1v1 class is true, I won’t deny that. But when I put AOE into account is not that I want to smash 15 monsters with the same hit. My point here is solving tasks. You know that there are a lot of quests that you have to protect something and then comes a horde of the worst type of monster to be a horde of, like those 100k HP, when your combo only deals 30k per CD. Any AOE class solves this by just using its kit. Now, a Fencer can’t do that, so he has to use his 1v1 potential more strategically. And I think this is cool, it reminds those samurai strategies of how to deal with a horde of bandits. But that strategy is not that possible, because you can’t even kill 1 of them quickly.
Well, we could say that the Fencer can now, but we all know that IMC can create this toxic scenario again. And Fencer will suffer again.
Durability alone is not an issue even today, I agree. But with the other issues added, it, well, adds.
Concerning the videos, I agree with you, there is a lot yet to see. Although I am still pessimist, because there is nothing that is increasing crate for swordsman (I don’t see barb as a good option yet).
Well, I would say that for this particular game, Doppel is made for PVE. And he was, is and will be forever good with both STR and DEX. But I don’t think Fencer is at the same state, because of what I said till now. If we are talking about PVE pierce damage 1v1 boss killing, I again ask why would you pick a Fencer, aside from you liking it, if you have a spear path that is specialized at doing EXACTLY that, with more convenient mechanics.
I’m not saying that it is not possible, I think Fencer will stay as a good option. But the class is so high cost and high risk that it makes me think I’m stupid for playing Fencer. And you know what I mean, leveling one up to rank3 now is hell for a casual player (I am a casual payer nowadays btw). When I play a Catagoon for example, I can’t stop thinking how dumb is to play with Fencer, because in the end both do the exact same thing, except that Fencer cost millions of SP pots and is a hell of a class to level up.
My point is, if we can’t make efficient use of Epee Garde, what those demerits are really for?
I do hope this class get a remake sometime.
So what I’m gathering from this in short is that fencer has low versatility compared to doppel (and other classes)
In which case I also agree with that
Yeah, we could say that.
We can also add that they now are trying to force versatility on everyone, which does not fit Fencer very well. So, they either remake the class to fit this new design, or make something to take this specialization to cover up all PVE. Like making Rapier Aggression be instead of a 15% damage increase, be a X crate increase or something like that.
The two doppels I had (the other one was deleted because I needed more slots for experiments and couldn’t afford attributing both) were stronger than my fencer and I had several people asking in my PM about it so I made this guide into a multi-class guide instead of a fencer-only thread.
It’s quite a good decision since there were also several fencer vs doppel threads so it helps…or maybe helped since I stopped updating
but hey people are still actively debating/discussing so that’s nice.
Is it possible to upgrade redel’s multihit attribute while still at c2 redel level 5, but with divine might buff to get it to level 6, due to multihit attribute requirement is only redel to be level 6?
Are you planning to updating this guide when the stat rework comes?
I already quit for now, so I can’t really update it anymore,
but:
Hoh, don’t worry, I was just joking :3
I also played a Doppel and I agree with you, they are a lot more convenient.
These two don’t seem to be too far apart in gear yet performed way way differently (aside from the obvious class choice difference of Peltasta).
VS
So… hurray player skill (actual gaming sense)? 
Edit:
First video appears to be the generic build, is it not that good at handling tons of mobs as it appeared to have before?
Second video has Peltasta, is this adviseable to [replicate] if I have nearly as good ping (not Korean level ofc), but very low?
Edit2:
The Fencer 3 dream?
@04:14, he hits 555555 with Attaque Au Fer without Preparation!