Tree of Savior Forum

Improvement to the Attribute learning system (with pics ^_^)

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#1

Hi ToS Dev team,
I wanted to offer a suggestion for improving the way attribute learning is handled. I found the simple countdown timer was rather unimaginative and the “learn times” were annoying to be honest. There are a couple of ways I think this system could be improved to add to the game experience.

Convenience.
First issue is that I feel having to come back into town to learn individual attributes every 10 minutes is annoying. I would prefer the system to be, (rather than learning the attributes from the class masters directly) the class masters sell portable (non-tradeable) attribute scrolls which would go into your inventory and enable you to consume the scroll in the field. This would allow you to buy a few at a time and be able to use them as required throughout your levelling.

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Fuller gaming experience.
Having a timer counting down until the attribute is learnt is a pretty boring mechanic.
Similar to how the EXP cards give you a little bit of fun control over how you level, I think a similar system of giving the player some control over the time it takes them to learn attributes is more engaging. I’d prefer if there was an attribute EXP bar (instead of a timer) which required using the skill the attribute applies to in order to learn the attribute. Not only would this give the player some control over the speed with which they learn the attribute, but also if they were to play as normal, having attributes level up periodically would come as a pleasant surprise and an additional feeling of progression to fill in the long empty grind.

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@_@

Links to other beta posts:

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[Review] Aries' thoughts on International Beta1 (Final)
[ My Whole iCBT Feedback Experience. ]
Removing time restrictions on attributes
#2

How about armor attributes? How will learning that be progressed?

Also it might be another thing to grind? Base XP, Class XP and now Attribute “XP” lol.

#3

I duno. level while wearing the type of armour? Equip a full set of the armour type to gain the mastery? for higher masteries maybe equip a full set of higher lvl gear of that armour type, similar to the “Get Epic” achievments in WoW. there would be interesting ways to do it.
I don’t really see it as another thing to grind, more like you have a massive base level grind already, why not do things like this in tandem to give some interesting things to do while doing the big base grind and fill the long empty distance with a few things to break it up a bit.

#4

I suppose so, nothing wrong about that if implemented decently. Kinda makes intuitive sense too.

#5

Your idea sounds nice, however I have to say that I like how they handled the attributes and wouldn’t change it.

Right now it works likes this: You run to your master, buy the attribute and learn it immediately or have to wait whatever time it takes. This means you are able to only buy a certain amount of attributes a day (let’s just say every attribute we want to buy takes 30mins to learn). This means, even the hardest 24/7 hardcore gamer can’t have all attributes at max level after one week of playtime as he could if he could buy those attribute scrolls and level them on his grinding journey. Of course hardcore player will always be higher or better than casuals however this way there is a ‘barrier’ for them to stop them from becoming too fast too op.

Secondly, the attributes get more expensive the higher their level is, because the master looks at the current level and determines the cost depending on that. That means, it’s not possible for the NPC to determine the cost for the next scroll because you attribute level is still the same.
So let’s say you are still pretty low level but have quite an amount of money (via friends or nice money managment etc.) what do you do? You buy a good amount of attribues because they are still very cheap. This way people who have money while they are still low level have an advantage compared to beginners or other players without alot of money.
The only way to counter that would be that you have to get the attributes for free from your master but have to pay for them when activating them. And this encourages laziness and semi-afk grinding.

Also playing this game as a ‘first generation player’ without rich friends or money in the bank i have to admit i never had enough money to buy more than one to three attributes at a time in the beginning. So there wouldn’t be much of a difference if I have to go back to town because I have to buy a new attribute or to buy a new scroll.

Another negative point is that you have to use skills in order to level the attribute. So you are forced to use them even if you don’t want to because other skills are better for specific grinding, quest or killing boss monsters. I.e. I played Archer and Ranger and so I used multi shot for questing very often and didn’t use kneeling shot alot. When i was grinding it was the other way around.

So overall it’s a nice idea but I don’t think it’s good for the game.

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#6

There is no reason to gate attributes behind a timer. The cost is plenty.

Also you should probably use kneeling shot when farming because it’s amazing.

#7

Sorry but what do you mean? At the moment there is a timer ingame.

That is exactly what I said.

#8

What do you not understand? Making me wait 30 minutes is stupid if i can’t afford the next level of the attribute. Making me pay silver that rises exponentially is already a sufficient gating mechanism that makes me have to farm and sink silver into it. Even if you had 1 million silver and started an alt. that’s enough silver to get one attack to level
50. Great now get out there and kill monsters and get more money. Why punish the players for playing and making money.

#9

I agree with the scrolls, that’s a nice idea.

I prefer the timer however for actually learning a skill. Otherwise people will just burn to max armor attributes (takes 25 hours in total, plus more since I don’t think anyone will hit the button 50 times exactly every 30 minutes)

#10

Why is that a problem tho? Who cares if someone else learns skills faster? Why does that impact your game experience?

They also need a ton of silver to do that

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#11

Sure, they need a ton of silver, that’s right.

At the beginning, with your first char there wouldn’t be a big impact.
There would be no difference in waiting 30 minutes or to farm 30 minutes to earn enough silver to be able to learn the next skill.

But think about what happens if you already own a LVL 200+ char and you earned around 5 million silver. Now you create a new char and you are able to trade enough money to instant upgrade most of your skills as a “newbie”.
As i think, with a higher LVL you will also get more silver out of a deafeted monster in your lvl range, so it’s not just easier for you to get enough money, but also have the advantage to not have to wait, so your instantly overpowered on low lvl maps and that isn’t fair compared to new players and that’s one reason why Ragnarok Online did not get new players after a few years, because everyone already had the “best” equipment and enough money to gain some new for a new char. Most of the new players just quitted after a few weeks because they had no chance to reach their equipment lvl.

You have the advantage of knowledge after playing this game for a while and that’s pretty enough in my opnion. To be able to just learn a maximum amount of level of attributes a day gives new players the chance to really play with the “old” ones.

#12

It doesn’t really, I’m just lazy tbh

#13

No offense here just wondering.
As of now there is no way to transfer a money or item to other character in same account otherwise you have a friend to help you trade that money and item.

and why should I care other player that has more attribute level than myself ?
it doesn’t matter to me at all like @GamingWithGB have said.

#14

it doesn’t even matter anyway @Flotitan . The attributes can still have the approximate similar pace to learn. watching 10 mins count down on the clock isn’t much different time wize over figuring out how many monsters it takes to kill in 10mins and making the requirement that instead… The main difference is the attribute would level up from your normal levelling process and so be tied with your progression in a meaningful way instead of an arbitrary one. As for the cost to buy more than one at a time… each level scroll can be made the same price as the different levels of the skill cost now. no realtime calculation needed…

It’s just a suggestion for IMC anyway, if they were interested in looking into it, I’m sure they could figure out any number of implementations.

#15

I think this way you are capable of leveling much faster and do things alone more efficient than with other newbie players and that’s what a community shouldn’t evolve to.
To trade something isn’t a problem at all.

Ok let’s say the amount of time would nearly stay the same.

So if I understand you right, you mean that the scrolls itself get a lvl? So I can buy a lvl 1, 2, 3, 4… scroll for each skill? Or do you intend that the server saves the amount of scrolls you already bought of each skill?
If I’m right with one of my thoughts than there would be a huge programming effort, but ok as you already said it’s a suggestion I just intended to understand it.

#16

it wouldn’t change anything. you buy a lvl 2 cure enhance for 20cents now. or you buy a lvl 2 cure enhance scroll for 20c with that system. no programing or calculating >_<

#17

Oh I see your point now, but it should not be a problem this game need to be in party all the time for efficient leveling.
Even duo is faster than solo.

#18

Yeah but what if you want to buy a lvl 2 and a lvl 3 scroll at the same time?

#19

I know you think there needs to be some calculating in here. but trust me, there dosent man.

Whatever the prices for the various levels of the things are now you can put all those values onto scrolls >.<

lvl1=20c, lvl2=22c, lvl3=25c. no problems.
I think you might have seen the cost on the attribute button being replaced by the next cost when u bought a level and thought it was calculating something, but there isn’t anything to calculate. you bought lvl2 for whatever amount, and that opened up the next level that was slightly more expensive. there’s no issue with all those costs being on separate lvl scrolls. you could buy as many as afford lvl1scroll, lvl2scroll, lvl3scroll in one go if you wanted.

and the scroll way of implementing it is just my suggestion, the main idea is that coming back to town was annoying for me so I wanted to do it in the field. any way that does that is fine. don’t even need scrolls >_<

#20

Ok now i got it. Thank you.

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