[IMC] How to fix the queue times and encourage team play. [UPDATED]

[SecondNoob]

Hello IMC and players! o/

I would really appreciate support from the community to address this issue. We have to stand together for change to happen (like the BETA plans) or nothing will be done to fix this. Likes, emails and messages to staff members from as many people as possible would be GREATLY appreciated.

If someone could translate this post into korean so that I may add it that would be greatly appreciated and help us get the message across.

Like this thread.
Leave a reply.
ToS Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/treeofsavior/
IMC Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/ImcGames/?fref=ts
Email them: urgency@imc.co.kr

I would like to acknowledge that yes, optimization is a problem but it is not going to be fixed anytime soon and doesn’t stop you actually playing the game. So please try to stay on topic and get IMC’s attention to fix this flawed part of the game.

I’ve decided to write this because I am on the verge of leaving the game after 1800 hours of game time.

Why?

The Queue times.

I spend over 50% (sometimes over 75%) of my game time QUEUED for missions or dungeons, unable to do ANYTHING.

I love the game, but the queue times are becoming unbearable, often over 1 hour of standing doing nothing and other times not being able to find a group at all.

These are my Idea’s and fixes for this problem.

A lot of them are just common sense that any MMO that wanted to do well would have had implemented at day 1.

This is a MASSIVE problem with the game.

The first 3 Fixes require very very little work for IMC to fix.

Fix #1: MERGE ALL THE SERVER QUEUES

Merge all the servers together for missions and dungeon runs. not for pvp

UPDATED VERSION OF THE IDEA

Give us the option to CHOOSE to play with lower ping or faster queue.

IE.

• Global Queue: Can get matched with players from ANY server on ANY regions dungeon servers. Reduced wait times.

• Regional Queue: Can only be placed on your regional servers with players from all servers. IE you have your low ping and also have reduced wait times. Players with ‘connection’ issues could use this option.

This option could be toggled in the /indun menu.

There could also be a 3rd option for xenophobes.

• Regional Only: Can only be placed with people from your region, with servers from your region.

Fix #2: ALLOW QUEUES FROM ANYWHERE THROUGH THE /INDUN COMMAND

Allow players to Queue from anywhere. There is absolutely NO REASON people should be stuck in place while queued for a mission’s or dungeon’s. It just causes frustration and means you are stuck doing NOTHING instead of PLAYING THE GAME.

To those who say it promotes community.

Sorry but no. It does not. In 1800 hours Ive ran into maybe 5-10 conversations being had at dungeon and mission entrances.

The rest of the talking was frustration that they were stuck there and why IMC doesn’t allow us to queue from anywhere or do things while queued and causing discontent (unhappiness) with the players.

Just to be thorough and leave as little for you guys at IMC to think about, add a dungeon button to the UI instead of the /indun command so players can more easily access it.

Fix #3: INCREASED LOOT DROP RATES AND RARE DROPS MOVED TO DUNGEONS.

Give people a reason to actually enter the dungeons.

Move items like Battle bracelet from Tenet church to the level 50 dungeon. Put it at as a drop chance (EG 0.5%) from monsters inside. The same way the ‘dark property’ bracelets and recipes are dropped from the lv145, 160 and 175 dungeons. Brandish from Royal Mausolium to the lv115 dungeon. Venier from recipe to the lv175 dungeon ect ect.

Increase the drop rates from cubes.

I’ve personally opened OVER 500 cubes from the lv130 dungeon.

I have never seen a peta recipe or anything but cards and talt. This is not an acceptable chance for loot drop when your dungeon entrances are limited per day. It is stupid design and needs to be changed.

If people do not have a decent chance at items they will not run the dungeons.

THIS LAST FIX IS BY FAR THE BEST OPTION.

Fix #4: RANDOM DUNGEONS QUEUES WITH REWARDS AND LEVEL SCALING.

It is simple.

• You can only enter the random dungeon queue once you reach level 50.

• EDIT* This could also work on requiring rank 4 or 5 to enter, Low enough that new players experienced the lv50 dungeon and high enough to now participate with everyone else for the 90+ ones.

• Add 2 extra SEPARATE runs per day for ‘Random’ Dungeons. Bringing us up to the 5 kToS have already.

• These dungeons would be scaled to level200 the same way TBL is now scaled for PVP.

• EDIT* Scaled in a similar way, your stats would also need to be scaled up.

• Players would be equipped with generic level 200 gear.

• Monsters would reward PERCENTAGE based exp similar to how Siauiliai misson bosses (IE 0.5% per monster).

• Players would be rewarded for COMPLETING these random dungeons at the end.

THE REWARDS HAVE TO BE BIG TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO PLAY TOGETHER AND USE THE RANDOM QUEUE, IF THEY ARE NOT PEOPLE WILL NOT DO IT.

As a rough example:

• 50% of your current levels EXP rewarded.

• A cube containing ONLY rarer crafting materials, lv5-6 gems and gem abrasives, silver anvils (rare) ect MAX LEVEL PLAYERS ONLY.

• Possibly a Cube containing a random card for max level players (cards shouldn’t be this hard to get anyway).

• A silver reward based on level. (IE a lvl50 would receive 50k, while a level 280 would receive 280k, very simple and encouraging enough for players to join). This also encourages people to use different builds and not be locked into ones that can ‘farm’ silver.

BEFORE PEOPLE SAY THAT WOULD MAKE LEVELING TO EASY

No. It would not.

This game is going to have over 400 levels, likely 500 or more. Getting a ‘free’ 1-2 levels per day will make the game more bearable and give people the feeling they are always progressing and getting better.

Even at 2 free levels a day it would take MONTHS to reach level cap this way.

It is simply a way to increase leveling speed for more casual players and ENCOURAGE TEAM PLAY FOR EVERYONE.

@STAFF_Amy @STAFF_Max @STAFF_John @STAFF_Ines @STAFF_Ethan @hkkim @TOSTeam @system @moderators

EDITS

• Option to choose which server to queue for, IE Regional vs Global. (Great idea Sciguma)

• Different idea’s on when people can join ‘random’ dungeons and the fact stats would also need to be scaled (mostly CON). (Thanks WanSage for pointing that out).

• Tomes would need to stop giving benefits while in queue (Thanks Gringe).

IMC are aware of the thread, so supporting the idea will actually help out!

[MayMay]

I support anything to reduce queue time frustration.

[WanSage]

Fix #1
Not just higher latency but this will cause more disconnections for people with shittier internet. So no

Recommendation: Give bonus exp for queueing at certain times in a day to encourage more people to queue at the same time (dungeons only); or
Add number of people queuing under indun for more visiblity

Fix #2
I think their original plan was to create a community while queueing like how the dungeon entrances are CROWDED for the first 2 weeks. Unfortunately, their servers can’t handle their ideal amount of players (‘dungeon instance creation is full’ errors).

Recommendation:
Have players ‘unlock’ a dungeon by approaching them (like warp statues) which lets them queue from a certain place (like fedimian mission npc).
As for actions while queueing, I believe IMC has some goals with that since they are adamant about rooting people in place while queueing. Proof: When they announced that they fixed the ‘opening a book lets you move while queuing’ bug. Ofcourse this didn’t work and only created the bug where party members are rooted during party scenarios.

Fix #3
I think there’s plenty enough reasons to queue so I disagree with this.
They also increased the silver/run, added mob drops on certain dungeons to encourage full runs, and on r8, instance clear vouchers.
Im not sure about your luck but I got arde dagger on my 9th cube (without token), opening 2 boxes everyday and an Aias on my 37th, opening 3x everyday. I actually like the hard mode on drop rates because it makes every non-talt feel rewarding and it is intended by the devs but I recommend

Replacing the godforsaken DPK mechanic. It’s bearable with high pop count but even RNGesus can’t help you farm for dandel gems without losing your everyday life. In a sense, I feel like it applies to cubes. There are days where you get talts, other days where you get a lot of cards and very rare days where you get the item you want, I’d believe more that this was RNG if the item drop rate was more spread out but I feel like this works on a different mechanic (Proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/treeofsavior/comments/5147yt/300_manticen_cubes/?st=ispcjgfi&sh=fc1d0f66 Look at the grouping of non 0/1 against other drops)

Fix #4
Im not against this but this sounds like an event. Remember, we don’t even get standardized equipments in pvp, I doubt this will happen. Higher level players will also have access to more base damage and more skills. What would a group of rank 3 newbies going to do to compete with a rank 7 even at the same equipments. This is the same argument why nobody in PVP wants to see a a build without con at the same time low level because the level bonuses just doesn’t matter when you dont have the stats invested or the class rank bonuses.

Recommendation
Good idea but wrong implementation. This would be better in fedimian missions to increase diversity in the runs and not just on the first pick, Siauluai.

Overall, to encourage party play, give more benefits to manually created parties.Right now, queue parties grant more exp but If they added bonus exp for class diversity AND another bonus for queuing with friends consecutively (like in DNest) or some other party benefits you know of from another game.

“Even at 2 free levels a day it would take MONTHS to reach level cap this way.” No, at 2 free levels a day, that guy that rushed to around ~270 in 2 weeks can reach cap in another week.

This post just caters more for what you call ‘casual players’. I think the niche group that plays this game (including me) likes the fact that it’s actually hard to get an item. If you’re already complaining about this, wait til you see the requirements for an ET and its corresponding equipments. Now this one will take actual months to get the full set. Also, I only play around 2 hours to finish dungeons and missions (hoping that my friend will be in the same instance) everyday and around 5~8 hours on weekends to finish map quests and kill counts.

Think of another way to encourage team play that you know of from another game. LoL had that IP multiplier for the number of players in a party, DNest had that consecutive dungeon bonus and I don’t think ragnarok had one aside from easier grinding in a party because kill counts are shared (Gramps TI).

[SecondNoob]

I really dont care about the drops, but without it people will not queue and we will have the same issues we have now. Also there are not even enough players on klaipeda during offpeak hours to form basic grind party’s, let alone levels specific dungeon runs. We NEED cross server, not just want it.

EDIT*

The random queue isnt for people to ‘compete’ but to work together and do content. Being rank3 or 8 may mean you do less but you are there to do it together for a common goal. Which this game severely lacks right now.

[SecondNoob]

I just wanted to make a second reply regarding latency and disconnection.

This content (leveling dungeons and missions) is not ‘competitive’ content. Having 50ms or 300ms has little to no impact on the outcome of this content. I live in Australia, we have some of the worst internet in the world and I can count on one hand the amount of times i have disconnected. If peoples internet was THAT bad they wouldnt be able to stay connected to local servers either.

How can people HONESTLY say they would rather wait in a queue for 45m-1h+++ or even not find a dungeon at all because they will have 150ms more than usual?

I’d take 24/7 peak hour 3-5 minute queues for content over that ANY day of the week. At least you would be playing the game, not standing there looking at a queue timer.

All the people are doing by complaining about latency for dungeons is forcing unreasonably long queues or making dungeons and missions impossible during offpeak times.

News flash, the 150ms more is not going to change the outcome of the content, just remove the queue times.

To put this into even more perspective, during offpeak hours on NA servers (Orsha more-so, but even in klaipeda this is an issue) we cannot even form grind party’s to level up, because there simply are not enough players online in the region, meaning these people who play during these times CANNOT PLAY THE GAME. You can watch on klaipeda on a daily basis, people shouting to make alemeth/evac/mavern/storage groups that never get off the ground after an hour of more of shouting because there are no players to join thier group, let alone players doing dungeons and missions.

Just today, 3 hours before reset I spent 2 hours and 30 minutes queueing and requeueing to fedi mission, while mega-phoning for players, with the same 9-12 players who also never found a matching group. Let that sink in, almost 3 hours of a queue timer to do content required to get through some leveling phases and we never found a party.

All the servers being merged for missions and dungeons isnt ‘wanted’ it is ‘required’ for many people to even play the game at all.

[Bald_Dad]

Iam a simple man, i read Fix i give it a like.

[liantis24]

PvP and GvG is only possible at certain times, and therefor more players are queueing at the same time, AND you can queue up from everywhere.

This could also be a simple and efficient solution for PvE

[Gringe]

Allow players to Queue from anywhere. There is absolutely NO REASON people should be stuck in place while queued for a mission’s or dungeon’s

Now there is

“- The buff duration for the new EXP Tomes will not decrease while in Klaipeda, Orsha, Fedimian or while matchmaking.”

[liantis24]

Now there is

“- The buff duration for the new EXP Tomes will not decrease while in Klaipeda, Orsha, Fedimian or while matchmaking.”

C’mon man. You can’t actually believe yourself that this would be a valid reason to let players put up with 2h+ queuetimes

[Gringe]

It doesnt matter what i believe. If the xp tomes dont reduce time while in que and you can que anywhere. It is a valid reason.

Also i usually dont have to wait more than 10 mins for a dungeon.

[eilanzer666]

ha i don´t even think imc know how to do half of the list XD
yep…i don´t have any hope for this game or any trust in imc capacity! I just play to have fun in the lil we have now till any other crap comes out with the same style…

[SecondNoob]

Try being someone who can only play in offpeak times half of the time. The game is literally unplayable.

[Uncatfuraball]

We defenitly got a problem with the matchmaking system and queue times.
The system we have atm works for a higher Population. I don’t want to brag about it but I believe we need some adjustments to it before we lose even more people.
I am atm trying to find some ppl at the forums to get my dungeonruns at all.

LFM for 190 dungeon Full Run 2/5

Since it is so hard to get full runs nowadays at our lovely Fedi-Server i'd like to look here if I could find some people. So me and my friend wants to start at 21:00 gmt+1 / 9pm gmt+1. This week, almost everyday (since we'll most likely only gonna do our runs during the week). We are chrono and ele. It would be lovely if we could get someone with heal and at least one more DD (and a Tank and and and.. but life aint no pony farm). We would even consider going as less then 5 ppl if we can't fi…

I will not sit in queue for 2hours for a dungeon run. This search is my last attempt to consider instance dungeons as a source of exp.

[SecondNoob]

Sorry to hear that, It’s the same for us on Klaipeda/orsha queues during off-peak times. Dungeons and missions simply impossible to get going, as well as grind party’s to actually fill in the lv200-280 leveling gaps

[c2gaming]

Anyone playing offpeak and not finding any players to Q with is not the game’s fault. What IS the game’s fault is further fragmenting the player base using the damage and xp penalties. Then there’s the issue of loot.

Penalties
If the player is good enough to group with other players 20+ lv above him then LET HIM. Let the difference between 2 players 20 lvs apart be those 20 stats between them and/or the tier of gear they use.

Loot
The loot that can only be spoken about in this context are CARDS and silver. Right now this adds to the reasons why solo Q (be it missions or dungeons) is so much better than doing any of those in a group. Solo basically means “less sh*t I have to deal with”. It also means any cards that do drop are MINE for sure instead of having RNGsus decide who gets em. That 1 night 90 dg dropped a boss card on 2/3 runs I did and they were sure mine. This also means all silver that drops is MINE instead of having RNGsus decide who gets em. I can clear 130 dg 3x at around 1.5 hrs (slow I know but that’s the fastest my QS can go). I can’t imagine having to split the 750k RANDOMLY (not even 50-50) just because someone else coulda been with me.

The only goal worth aiming for in a party is xp. Anything else is a conflict of interest.

So I’ll repeat, get rid of the penalties and people (bigger pool to pick from) will get to party. Make loot instanced and people won’t mind partying.

[Uncatfuraball]

I would consider 9pm as peaktime sadly

[SecondNoob]

You cannot honestly believe people playing at offpeak times in the INTERNATIONAL version of the game is not the games fault, it clearly is.

Not to mention MANY people do not have an option to play during peak hours due to real life. I’m lucky I can play roughly half my time during peak hours to do things, tons of people are not so lucky.

The selfish nature of people wanting to keep queues separate because THEY can play during peak hours is amazing. Because YOU can play the game during those times and can do the content, there is no problem right? Screw the people who cannot enjoy those parts of the game yeah?

Come on dude.

[c2gaming]

But ToS is NOT international. It’s REGIONAL There’s NA, EU, SEA (SA but … yeah). It’s pretty clear. Each has it’s own time zone and if you choose to play at off peak knowing there wouldn’t be anyone there, that’s not the game’s fault.

The game gives you the choice of what time zone aligns with your schedule best. You chose a time zone where your playing hours would be off peak. Not the game’s fault.

[Arkova]

Fix #1 and 2 are a no-brainer. It should already be more like this, considering queue times and population.

Neat idea for an instance across all levels, but this

50% of your current levels EXP rewarded.
A cube containing ONLY rarer crafting materials, lv5-6 gems and gem abrasives, silver anvils (rare) ect.
A silver reward based on level. (IE a lvl50 would receive 50k, while a level 280 would receive 280k, very simple and encouraging enough for players to join). This also encourages people to use different builds and not be locked into ones that can ‘farm’ silver.

Way overboard.

[SecondNoob]

Maybe overboard now, wait til there are 500 levels in the game and you want to try a few new classes or builds, then see if you still think that way.

The silver reward will be considered food scraps even with the rank8 patch (Maxing some basic attributes like murmillo’s helmit will put you back 20mil+++).

I would agree the cube idea is probably overboard and not needed to get people to queue, I put it there mainly as an incentive for max leveled players to actually queue up and participate while still getting something useful to them (The exp and silver scraps would not be). Maybe that part would be exclusive to players over X level near the cap.