Tree of Savior Forum

How to force IMC to improve Tree of Savior!

General Discussion
#44

I don’t and won’t bother warning or not, I will say how things work of course, but whenever someone come here and ask “Is it worth play this game (now)?”.

My answer will always be the same, be ToS or any other game out there, try it yourself and don’t rely on other’s opinions, why? Because what might be or not worth for others could be worth or not for you.

We aren’t ants.

Also, yes, the game is flawed, any game is, but in ToS case, it’s too much, and even more the people behind it.

But that doesn’t mean I will be quiet if I find it offensive or abusive on their side.

They are busy, I get it, but they don’t respect the customer, they don’t talk to their customer, unless is something about money issues, AKA TP buying problems.

Anyway, it’s their work to do what is right, it’s their name or reputation or pride or whatever they have, IF they have any, that is damaged.

2 Likes
#45

There are two ways of enjoying Tree of Savior:

1 - Prioritizing playing the game for the game, because you find the concept fun and you want to make part of it. You just want to have fun with the systems created, and might have some interest on the artistical aspects, or not.

2 - Enjoying Tree of Savior as a project. Although that does not exclude playing the game for the game, it is also required that you want to follow the process of creative production of the artists, the research and methods of the game designers and being a fan of some concepts that are niche and only exists in this game (like the retro graphics, a class that you like and does not exist anywhere else, OST, art, etc).

People of number 1 bases their enjoyment on gameplay, which requires good administration, service and a healthy mmorpg environment. We could say ToS lacks a lot in this specific area, which makes people of number 1 really pissed, as the only thing that makes them have fun is flawed, broken.

People of number 2 can enjoy and love Tree of Savior at any moment, at any circumstance, even if the game is bad developed. Why? Because they have a lot more reasons to like the game and many more ways to enjoy it.

An example, based on my case:

My case

There are a lot of reasons that make me play and follow Tree of Savior, which are having a passion for the Rapier user classes, loving the art made by Maggi, the intention of making retro graphics, love the music, love to study the game design, love the story.

Now, concerning the gameplay, I have had my problems, but I don’t prioritize gameplay. That is, the game malfunctioning (although I have less problems than most average players) does not make my ToS experience a bad experience, because my experience is far more diverse than only playing a game. I enjoy Tree of Savior project, I don’t simply play it.

I believe most called “white-knights” fits in case number 2 or at least are near it.

And I also believe that most called “doom-knights” fits in case 1, and I would affirm most of them do because their post focuses entirely on gameplay and bad administration. They do not complain about the artistical aspect of the game, that is, to them that would be only a minor issue.

I think everybody who has problems with the game, be it because the engine is ■■■■ with some computers (and I know they might be, it is not with mine though) or there are serious problems with hacks and other abuse the developer just doesn’t solve, I think those people have the right to complain.

Being from case 1, I can understand how bad your experience is. To me, it would be like making Fencer something completely different, and therefore destroying its concept. In this case I would stop playing immediately, and badmouth IMC forever.

My conclusion is, most people who got disappointed already left. But there are some people like @akiraleir42 who actually fits on case 1 that are still here. I don’t know if those people are just making hate posts because it is fun (which is ok, you have your right of doing that) or because they hold an enormous grudge because of an incident in the game which I might never experience or know.

Either way, I believe most people like me who fits at case 2 should just ignore, as those people are not the same as us, they don’t actually like Tree of Savior. They are only gamers who want a good game to play and got, I don’t know, traumatized by an incident.

#46

So your argument suggests that players… of a game… must not expect it to work as a game… but have hopes that one day, TOS may finally deliver what they promised 4 years ago? Interesting you are in the right way of creating a religion for tos.
The game is completely dead, and you insist in blame the players who complain in the right spaces for the situation of the game. Maybe one day tos will have 10 players online, so you can finally realise that you are being fooled all this time…

2 Likes
#47

You know that is a lie. My post has 0 suggestions concerning what should someone do with concerning the game. I even said that it is your right to complain, to question the developer. I even said that those players are right. I don’t think it is of a religion to accept being questioned, not even agreeing with its prosecutors.

If you did not understand, my objective was to describe the most common types of players and to address the problem of those who don’t like the game as it is and to try to stop the useless conflict that everybody here on the forums seems to do.

I have no commentaries regarding if IMC is wrong or not. That is for those involved (you players with a bad experience) to judge.

2 Likes
#48

I don’t think I fall under the “bad experience” category, I have some issues happening when I play or simple left the game open (only in cities).

When stuff start to happen I simple close and go do something else.

But I won’t say ToS satisfy a “how a game should be presented”, not the concept, but the execution of the said concept.
Too many things are missing, many things where broken, some things where changed and ended up bad.

I could accept it, honestly, but I don’t endorse what the company does, or act mainly.

I find lack of respect to who is helping them, not only as customers, because without players, the game is done for.

1 Like
#49

Look luna, im one of the only 5 players who got the solmiki weapons on Itos"before the Event: Certified Trick-or-Treater", please check this ->[Feedback] Event: Certified Trick-or-Treater and Weapons Solmiki for Free?, IMC gave 12 weapons solmiki in a event, do you have any idea whats the need for get a solmiki weapon? What game have you played, where are the game’s best weapons is given in an event?

have you seen the company’s attitudes this year? you saw the post from @leader.jj ?
@GM_Francis why my post got UNLISTED 3h ago ? Can you gave me a reason?

I think the behavior of IMC is unacceptable and protesting against it is our only tool since IMC does not usually listen to its community,if someone teaches others to protest, I do not see how this can be seen as a post troll.

I believe it is important to teach players that they can demand the company for attitudes and not just wait or have faith without doing anything.

If you disagree after having seen my point of view, could you elaborate how we should behave in order for the game to improve?

2 Likes
#50

I actually agree with you and also don’t endorse what the company does. I think it is not honest to assume they are imoral, but I agree they have the obligation to change and make a good service, even if I am satisfied with the rest of their work.

I also agree with this statement, and everybody has the right to use the method from OP.

I believe the discussion was if it was a legal act (legal act being what the ToS allow to do). I think I understood what OP said and I’m not against it.

But the possibility of it being interpreted as a negative review spam stimulation is also plausible, so it is good to make things clear, which is what the refuters here are aiming to do.

4 Likes
#51

Hmm, I wouldn’t say immoral, but non professional in fact.

I know there are companies that act like IMC, don’t talk to their consumers, but at least, they fix and pay attention to what we say.

#52

  1. I know IMC does bad decisisons. No one is denying that.

  2. I saw the post from @leader.jj and his post was deleted with a good reason.

Let’s be clear, if you’re breaking the rules and they took action on you or your doings, accept it - that’s expected. IMC doing it always or not.

  1. Yeah, sure. Protest, complain. But remember:

3.1) Other forum users did nothing wrong to you. If you’re being offensive some people will be offensive back to you. If you’re abusing something some people won’t accept what you’re suggesting.

3.2) You don’t need to complain about the same thing on every thread users are discussing other things. If you go into the art contest thread to complain about in-game bugs, you’re just being annoying. If you go into an unrelated thread and start “hey, white knight, stop giving suggestions to IMC, complain instead” or even “here, make fake reviews”. Seriously, you’re just being a troll.

3.3) If someone doesn’t bend to your will that doesn’t mean they don’t listen at all. Pokemon event is still a struggle but it was already changed many times. An example of how IMC listened to players was about limiting the Diamond Anvils to x3 only.

3.4) Although I agree that IMC keeps doing some mistakes. They seem to have a rigid position of “If I said I’ll do it.” instead of cancelling things entirely - even if they fail or don’t follow it. But sometimes even if they listen to you, they might not change their decisions at all but they know they messed up, especially with the Solmiki Selection Box.

3.5) As much as it’s important to look at the past. Some events were fixed either mid-way or later on. As much you can’t revert the damage already done - action was taken even if poorly, it wasn’t complete silence.

3.6) Abusing review systems isn’t protest. If you start doing shady stuff in real life making it seems as protest you’re gonna have problems anyway.

One example of how you can make IMC listen to you being polite, clean and organized - without resorting to any bad methods:

Of course it won’t work for everything - But if they don’t listen to you with a good well written feedback in their official channels, sadly, they won’t listen to spam in alternative channels.

8 Likes
#53

One thing that is interesting, I had this talk some time ago with my friends, and we concluded that, of all things that we talked, the lack of professionality was the most evident aspect of IMC. We thought of some possibilities, and the most prominent ones were:
I-the fact that it is a new company (an immature company, makes bad decisions)
II-the fact that they lack funds (which is kinda evidenced by Nexon buying a part of IMC)
III-the fact that they are just milking ToS.(which would be the immoral theory)

I believe I and II are the base of what happened, being III a consequence of Nexon coming to the play (my hypothesis is that most changes that make ToS look like p2w recently are their fault).

Anyway, whatever the reason it may be, the only thing I can do is wait and see.

1 Like
#54

Actually, that is the Asian culture’s fault, any game from that region, at least all the ones I’ve played, use this kind of stuff, be Gachapon or gear or any kind of status that give advantage to who pay.

I won’t say Token is a P2W item, we can buy it from market tho, but I’m against stuff that help speed up the process.

I also don’t endorse EXP boosters, it take the fun of playing while learning, then again, ToS don’t have solid content to learn much, except what skills work and what synergy with what.

I will wait to find an interesting game in the years to come, I still play ToS, but I can’t handle 20 mins in, I seriously fall asleep and when I wake I notice my char is running against the wall.

It’s really sad.

1 Like
#55

I’ve logged in just to say that you are right saying that @kamaroo really doesn’t know how to talk without memes(that’s pretty childish tbh)
This is a bit annoying since this is a serious conversation (and not a fucking huehuebr group), but if IMC can’t even remove prehistoric bugs it’s pretty impossible for them to remove images from posts…

#56

In the example you mentioned there was no IMC feedback or advice, if the company did not hear you? what do you suggest ? have faith ?

I would like to you show at least 1 positive feedback where there was a response from IMC. I’ll show you a well-written and clean text where the IMC’s response could not be worse.

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In my opinion what is IMC does goes beyond bad choices.

1 Like
#57

Does this counts? If not, why?

image

As for what you posted:

  1. Where’s the well-written clean text?

  2. Read my previous post, item 3.5.

It wouldn’t be smart to give Diamond Anvils to compensate the event wrong announcement, that would trigger side effects and we all know where it’s going. They messed up and they know it, nothing much to be done at that point.

#58

there is no IMC response in this Diamond Anvils break the game and should not exist if you have no response or feedback you cant say that IMC is listening to the community.

you did not understand the problem, the IMC instead of take responsibility into Active Player Event: Elite Hunter (diamond mistake) IMC suggested to change the diamond anvil for a gold anvil, which player would like to make this kind of exchange? anyone with a minimum of intelligence would take the blame and take action.

The IMC did not assume anything in this incident, and even suggested to make an exchange of an item of higher quality for a lower quality, IMC did not understand the complaints of the player.

Like i told you, what is IMC does goes beyond bad choices.

1 Like
#59

The response is obviously in the fact that they altered the trade in to be capped at 3. While I can’t say my thread was the direct result in causing this, it had to have helped.

1 Like
#60

@Remiri im not talking about tamer event, lol

1 Like
#61

Why does it matter what the event is? I thought we were talking about general responses from IMC.

1 Like
#62

@LunarRabbit and @Remiri well, I am talking about the right of the consumer to complain and demand a better service, and how this can be done in a correct way.

If all options have been exhausted, using slightly more aggressive options like a negative review is not wrong, it’s a player’s right.

2 Likes
#63

Tell me how much players don’t have a bad experience with the game… the question is that the ones who had problems playing is the majority, and is absolutely normal that people complain… I don’t understand why others still bother so much with complaints here… the game is not going to shut down because of complaints, is going to shut down due imc incompetency… complaints are not the origin of the problem, it is only a sympton that the things are not fine… understand?