This is sadly a lot of people. A lot of the level 100 people are talking like they’ve even experienced the near cap grind.
Yay guys I’m finally lvl 599 !!! Here, a mob ! Yay I killed it !!! OMG GOT 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% xp. Fine, only 20 years to reach max lvl.
Have you ever had to grind out mobs at .01% gain for years just have to restart your char all over with a 3 times the exp needed to level the first go? Or how about grinding a mobs that have insanely low spawn rate, insanely low density for an item with a .01% drop rate? Ever spend days grinding out mats required to level up a gear on improvement from +6 to +7 to have it break? This game is easy mode. The fact that you can even say you’ve hit 175 in this beta proves that.
or those days you farmed guild dungeon for an hour for your 1 or 2% to lag and die losing your daily gained experience.
There is no trans reset, gear is easy to farm, mobs give huge exp, and gear doesn’t break when you upgrade.
1 Like
What you seem to be forgetting is this. Almost everyone in RO botted.
Do you think people botted because they enjoyed playing the game and grinding so much? No, they botted because it sucked. ToS already has a botting problem, and it’s not even out of closed beta. Fact of the matter is that people just do not like to grind. Especially when the grind is as unfun as it is in ToS.
Which I totally understand and agree. But that is off topic from my point; which is that ToS isn’t hard nor that grindy in comparison to many other games.
Yeah, been there, done that. Are you saying that RO-tier extremity is somehow a good thing? It’s pretty ■■■■■■■ boring if you want the game to become like that. Grinding should be a fun and enjoyable experience
I don’t want to go into a huge debate about RO vs TOS, but RO had a huge number of bots to farm 0.01 cards, and eventual better maps/classes (Bio3, TKM etc.) to speed up the leveling process. Again, I think grinding is fine, but if you want to make it as hard (and honestly fucking stupid) as 0.01%, then that in no way adds value to the game at all. People will just be stuck at demon prison doing the same, boring, meaningless thing for about 10-20x the current time they do.
So bringing your suggestion to its logical conclusion yields no benefit nor adds value to the game at all.
And people still think it’s too grindy. Grinding games aren’t popular anymore, they rarely get made anymore and they never succeed. Because people do not like grinding.
Do you want to know how much people hate grinding? To be in the top 10% of players on Gabija server right now, you need to reach about level 30. You can do that in an hour or two. There is to my last count 80,000 characters created on Gabija, less than 10% of those got to level 30 or above.
This is not a good sign. If something isn’t done, ToS is not going to succeed. It’s going to be another MMO that fails and has almost no players after a few months.
Indeed.
I don’t advocate for catering to the ‘casual’ playerbase, but if you want a grinding game to succeed, the grind has to be rewarding, satisfying, interesting, memorable and meaningful. It is not.
If TOS could have something like Biolabs3, which gave good exp while being suitably challenging (until people found the most efficient way to exploit it), thus allowing you to have a challenging but not unduly slow grinding experience, that would be the best.
I think from the sound of it, leveling needs to be balanced so that monsters need to provide more experience and from my playing experience there definitely needs to be more channels and higher mob density.
I think if they lowered the level cap, you would have to make the game exclusively focused on regular updates and large amounts of end game content.
This game seems like is going to be more about the growth process, which means grinding. If they stick with the long leveling process, there needs to be regular events and other non-combat content to keep players entetained between questing and instances.
Eastern mmos tend to focus on the journey to becoming powerful and western mmos seem to start with the endgame. I don’t think the end game at the moment is the emphasis
There are mobs in ToS that are stupidly hard. As in if you pull more than a few of them, they’ll just nuke you dead in a second.
Problem is, despite these mobs being significantly harder (and requiring a party), they don’t give any better exp. This is because mobs don’t have unique experience values, they use a formula to determine how much exp they give, and the growth is linear. A level 1 mob is 5 exp, level 2 is 7, level 3 is 9 and so on. If there wasn’t an exp penalty for killing lower level mobs, the best maps to grind on would be the low level ones with lots of mobs (like tenet chapel) because these mobs don’t give much less exp but spawn in much larger groups.
Would they could do, is lower the level to 200, compress the world so all the maps fit into this level range.
Then when they release new updates, increase the level cap. First major update might set the level cap to 250 and add a bunch of new areas between level 200-250 and so on. 600 levels is too much given how little there is in the game. Maybe if they had another 5 years to work on it level 600 would be fine, but they’re releasing it next year, they don’t have enough stuff in the game for that many levels.
So generations.
I don’t mind that, but there has to be more to do besides just grind. I quit sky forge after getting into the first few betas because the grind was EVEN SLOWER than ToS and less fun because you didn’t do damage on most classes unless your impulse meter is up.
I think ToS has a solid foundation to be a successful game, because it’s fun to play, but the publishers need to be active with the community and events
I are you mentally handicapped? Re read this whole thing. I talk about how easy the grind is in ToS. You go on to say ToS is a hard grind. Then you turn around and agree with me that RO is a hard grind in comparison to ToS (making what I said originally true).
So bringing your suggestions to its logical conclusion yields to you being huge douche bag. I’m sure you are making people proud.
“EASY” lol theres 400 more lvls to grind after you reach lvl 200. just imagine the time you need to invest to reach the end game. you prolly need 2000+ hrs
It is not quite that bad on Laima, but still pretty bad.
At level 30 I have 3300 adventure rank and am Rank 27888.
The average is 2270.
The top 10% is 9500.
I expect by about level 70 I should have a rank of 9500, which kind of makes sense because I can see most people stopping after the first major grind wall.
1 Like
The main problem is that the saw like exp progression that becomes easier after 46-86-136-186 makes that all players end up clogging around the same spots because of the exp penalty system.
You do realise that mob exp is at 0,01% already before lvl 100.
Assuming exp curve is linear(wich it ofc isnt) that is ~16,7% all exp needed to max lvl(probably more like ~5% with the real numbers and thats optimistic).
With the Monster lvl/exp rate scaling so badly as it already is have fun grinding at 0,0000000000001% at lvl 500.
If you ask me the fix is: more Maps, more channels, more density. Remove quests, give more Options to grind and drastically increase moster exp.
Basically the Problem I see why mob exp is so low is because of quests. Its no suprise that such a DeadZone exists with the disparity between MobExp/time and QuestExp/time.
If they say remove quests and then scale up mob exp, to match the Speed it currently has with quests, there will probably be no pitfalls(or ones that will be easily fixed with balancing Mobs strenght a bit).
Sure ppl will Level a Little faster Overall but they will be happier, have more freedom and get to the FUN part of the game(3-4 ranks in) faster and probably stay longer because they are now insentivised to try out more builds.
Also I dont subscribe to the notion that monster intended to be farmed in thousands in a grinding game have to be “challanging”. The challange in a grinding game is is basically if you have the endurance to make it all the way.
No one chooses mobs that are challanging for grindig. They delibaratly choose monsters that they can kill fast without much problems or mobs that give so much more Exp that it is worth the effort to concentrate on each individual mob(of wich this game hs basically none).
Monster exp seems too formulaic: This mob has lvl X so it should have Y*X exp, done. Not considering the avg. time investment needed or avg. dmg taken by the player etc. This mnakes stronger or tankier mobs undesirable because they take significantly more risk for insignificantly more reward.
The system is bad designed, I agree… But not that bad designed for some classes. The biggest problem is, that not all classes get the “OVER KILL” bonus exp.
Now, it is linear, and it sucks. Yes, I agree to that. This game has let me down so much in terms of PVE mechanics that you have no idea how many times I’ve considered not playing it and going back to Ragnarok. It is not the same case in terms of PVP mechanics, I think they are fun.
I could write a bible about the topics above discussed… But I’m so F tired because I’ve been Solo-grinding with my monk 175 until I see the sun in the same freaking map for about 3 days with tons of other morons who didn’t knew they had to save up the cards to overcome the shiet leveling design. I mean, only 1 channel, and not all classes have the Overkill bonus or party, now sum it up the linear boring part… Damn, I’m off to sleep before I consider going back to work and forget about games for a while.
i´m 185 and i´m not happy with the rates…AT ALL! it´s painfull as hell!
1 Like
You could also assume with such a wide range of leveling area’s and peoples levels that competition for leveling spots will be more spreadout due to the fact groups of people will be leveling at different paces. I think alot of the leveling issues could be fixed by merely increasing the spawnrate of mobs in all area’s. Just feels like the higher area’s just lack mobs in general. If all area’s had the respawn rate of say… Demon prison district 2, i think alot of the problems would fix themselves. With such a huge level range (1-600 on release), I think IMC’s intention was so people wouldnt have to compete for grinding area’s, however the lack of mobs in all these zones cause the problem of not having enough viable grinding spots. Though tbh i didnt have many XP grind issues till i hit 164+. And even then its not that bad atm, just needs better mob spawn rates tbh. Maybe even make blue mob spawn rate increase but reduce the amount of XP they give, or make special miniboss mobs that give good xp or something. Other than that i think the games progression is okay for now.
Also more of those unusual side area’s would be nice, Legwyns family area, with its unusual puzzles broke up the grind, and the grinding there didnt feel as grindy because you were actively trying to figure the place out at the same time. Same with the Second Demon Prison. More optional area’s like those to level and explore in would make this game better. Gives you optional places to get XP/Loot and provides World bosses to do (both of those area’s have a common worldboss spawn) AND makes the game less linear. A good thing for this game to have more of.
1 Like