Tree of Savior Forum

Have they already ruined guild wars?

General Discussion
#61

Yeah, see the wasteland of generic mmos out there?
Thats where your “system” regulated concepts lead.
Have fun with every form of customization and theory craft removed from your games to the point you dont even have to sit in front of the computer because the system will play your character for you.

Remember when you could at least pick what skills you wanted via talent trees without an unlock system you have zero influence over? Remember when you could distribute stat points on your own, without a system to automatically level you? Remember how mmos used to be before everyone and their mom whined till the sky caved in and the developers removed every and any form of inconvenience you could encounter which would actually make you stop for 10 seconds and use your head?

Yeah well, slowly neither do i.

2 Likes
#62

its not good to say that way. i mean nothing is wrong if he thinks that way, but he needs a workaround solution.

#63

Then lets talk about work around solutions INSTEAD of removing complete feature sets EXACTLY because we cba to talk about work around solutions.

#64

let us hope iToS does not include the consent friendly-GvG mode in the release :smiley:

we are in different community, right? most of the iToS players will agree with the one way declare GvG mode.

1 Like
#65

I hope our version will not have this consent thing for GvG, I agree with your points and I really think that o player driven regulation on these matters can be much more fun if the game has a good number of players.

BUT, if they plan to add the consent thing for GvG, the best option i can think is to add a “flag” where guild with the flag on would “auto-consent” and have some benefits for having the flag on or guild with the flag off would have penalties, idk (and the flag when turned on would need a 5~7 days cooldown to be turned off so guilds couldnt exploit it)

#66

Anyone who is stupid enough to click “yes i want to join a guild” without thinking twice about it …

Has nothing better earned himself xD!

Don’t join random guilds, end of the discussion.

Or give people a 24 hour timezone where they can leave, even while being in a war.

#67

I think the consent thing it’s the best compromise. People that don’t want to pvp can avoid it without being penalized for it, people that want that kind of experience are free to have it, and people that want open pvp just to gank unsuspecting people just don’t get their way.
And i would guess that many of those that are whining are part of this last category. Sorry, no cookies for you.

#69

Is this a joke post? There are reasons to join a guild beyond pvp. People should have to pass up on unique minions, group chat, guild raids and harvesting just because you don’t want to put up with your ■■■■. Are you that entitled?

People crying over this need to git gud. Arenas still exist, and it’s not as if no guild ever is going to consent to war. All that’s gone is the ability to gank people that don’t want to fight back. Like really? Y’all are so bad you don’t want to pvp without a massive numbers advantage?

2 Likes
#70

I wasn’t sure if I should comment on this thread but I’m seeing too much typical PvPer nonsense:

1.) Can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen (people who don’t want to be guild pked shouldn’t be in guilds)

2.) Players are an actual threat (I assume all people are out to get me and will be hostile even to non-aggressives, even if, or ESPECIALLY IF, my group outnumbers them)

3.) I’m only interested in fighting other pvpers anyway (You’re not and you probably think people with no desire to fight will still somehow “git gud” from being repeatedly harassed in the middle of questing)

My first MMO was Ultima Online and where I got my first real taste of open world pvp and you know, even that far back they knew better than to allow open world pvp to be the ONLY option for people who wanted to play the game. I don’t know where the lot of you come from that you think “care bear” policies have only been recently implemented in this genre. Options are important and most of you are having none of that if it might give you fewer targets to kill.

Which is why no one will propose IMC create separate pvp and pve servers. Because(and big surprise here)the pvp server population will most likely be but a fraction of what the pve servers are.

1 Like
#71

Those problems don’t have to be set forth by the players around you. These problems can be set forth by the game and it’s mechanics and still require player interaction to solve. It’s a different type of game, but take Wakfu as an example. There are several bosses in that game which require teamwork and planning beyond “stand on X, use DPS rotation Y, wait for phase C”

People will generate drama and get their panites twisted over literally anything. I’ve never seen diplomacy work unless there’s an explicit diplomatic system implemented, and from what I’ve seen in recent-ish MMOs that people don’t WANT to be social outside of their little group of 10 to 20 people.

With consenting GvG there will still be drama, with no guilds at all there will still be drama.

I also like how you seem to have switched your argument from “consenting GvG is going to kill ToS” to “Over-convenience killed the MMO genre” which, unlike your first argument, is something I can actually agree with.

I don’t see how adding consent to GvG completely removes GvG from the game, as opposed to it being a solution to being able to do nothing about your guild tower being destroyed while your guild was offline.

3 Likes
#72

I don’t give a damn about Arena.

Harvesting and group chat are casual elements of the guild, it’s fine to have them, but please, spare me doing this all the time instead of fun, dynamic massive PvP.

Right back at you. You actually need to git gud, because you must be ready for what’s to come if you join the guild not oriented with casual elements. Massive wars is what made this game still fun, even with boring repetitive dungeon runs, now they took it from it.

#73

Exactly. if you join a guild not oriented with the casual elements.

If you do however, join a guild oriented with the casual elements, then the consent system is in place to let you enjoy that in peace.

Also I don’t give a damn if you don’t give a damn about arena. Because neither myself nor IMC give a damn about your refusal to give a damn to people who wan’t to want to play with a group of friends without getting ganked. You see how things can keep getting circular like that?

You talk as if there are going to be no guilds that are going to be pvp oriented. Mass world pvp isn’t dead. Griefing is dead. Deal w/ it.

2 Likes
#74

There’s nothing fun about having a 500 man guild declare war on a “guild of friends” and getting ganked while trying to collect 500 monkey butts to craft your mana-mana-mana-mana-arde-pistol-dagger before you even have a chance to ask why the hell they want to fight you, then being forced out of the area for a week.

This is what I see open GvG as, because I don’t WANT to be a part of a large guild where I become a potion vendor or a meter’d DPS instead of a person.

From the looks of things, you support being able to opt out of open GvG (which, in a way, is the same as consenting GvG, just less specific).

[quote=“Autentist, post:72, topic:144771”]
you must be ready for what’s to come if you join the guild not oriented with casual elements.[/quote]

Conversely, someone like me need not be ready for that because I’d be joining a guild which is oriented towards those casual elements.

1 Like
#75

@OtterTamer

@Qualna

I already said that Guilds with casual elements are fine. However, earlier massive world PvP was more dynamic since it had the sudden factor. You joined the Guild, you were ready for serious business. Growing crops and chatting can be done by every player in the game.

==>Griefing
Only if you were at war against somebody. And for that, you should have been ready, it was your own decision.

==>Deal with it
No.

==>500 man guild
Good numbers out of nowhere. Maximum capacity is 35, by the way. It’s not ganking, you are at war with them. It was YOUR decision to join Guild, why the hell are you complaining? Are you basically a PvE crab or what?

#76

I believe that enabling world gvg or pvp is set by the game and its mechanics, but well, i understand what you mean, however, that is not possible.
Certainly you need to socialize and work together to overcome the limitations of a game’s engine, but in the end, nothing the game will throw at you will be on the level of human interaction.
I mean really. Would we have bot guilds which interact like humans and are indistinguishable from players? Sure, i give you 100% right and count me in on the fun.
However, we are kinda far from anything like that happening. Arent we?

Maybe im getting old’n all, but i cant really understand what you mean.
You’ve never seen diplomacy work unless there is a system for it?
What…?
Like… how about communication between guild leaders? I mean i literally dont understand what you are on about here. The original ragnarok online had absolutely no diplomatic systems in place. All you had was your keyboard and the ingame chat. Go and talk it out.
I might add: surprisingly enough, it worked perfectly well.

Drama without a reason is stupidity and nothing more. Sure: “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.”, but with that being said, i dont see your point.
Yes, people bish and moan about everything, but only interactive systems inside the game will contribute towards your experience.
i.e.: Someone crying on the forums that he got killed and wants everything nerfed with his class being buffed is not the same as getting a healthy amount of mad at an enemy guild which now you intend to crush.
One contributes to your game, the other (even in best case scenario) has nothing to do with it.

Ragnarok online had that issue solved with guild castles (towers if you wish) being targetable only during woe times. See, there is one example of talking about possible workarounds without damaging the system itself.

#77

If this is all you took away from my posts you clearly has selective reading as i proposed alternatives that would protect those that dont want to pvp and dosnt ruin the system

No one suggests this because dividing the player base in more ways is stupid and has been covered in many topics you can find via the search function

#78

You realize your arguments here are in support of the consent system.

Then let them be.

No. NOW If you are at war with someone it’s your own decision. Before, and with the system you’re arguing for. People could declare war on any guild they wanted and they people on the recieving end don’t get a decision. It’s happened in the KTOS server and there’s even a thread here about someone wanting to make a guild and declare war on everyone.

“What I want to do in a guild deserves priority over what Qualna wants to do in a guild (even though I can still go to war with people)”

1 Like
#79

Except now its not a war. Now its a friendly request to challenge, i preferred the self policing system we had previously.

#80

It’s not much of a policing system when it causes more drama than it prevents.

1 Like
#81

I think it is a good decision since not every one is into pvp, I mean I agree about add a PK system where you can change to PK mode and fight to any one you see bc that means that any one will be able to attack you too, but I disagree with this GvG mode where high ended guilds declare wars againts casuals, new players. How is it fun when they can’t even offers resistance? It is not different from kill mobs if they can’t fight back.

Now, I think this game needs a pvp event, similar to WoE in RO (don’t hate me, it is just an example), Alliance in Tera (without all the bugs and stupid auras). Something where you can go, do pvp and win something for it, that way strong PvP Guilds will have a good reason to fight each other instead of farm lower players for… fun? (I think is more about compensate a complex but they say it is for fun).

Is there any benefits on PvP and GW aside from bragging rights?