Thats just a lack of the community banding together sooner or later they would learn to self police themselves and pick their fights carefully. What it needed was more time.
Yeah, I heard about the Myst guild. It was extremely fun. Not only for Myst themselves, but also for Koreans as well.
There can be workaround solutions, like Black Light said. For example, if you donât want to participate in PvP, you can vote or the system can ask you. But limiting everything because someone complained he was âgankedâ is wrong in the core.
The last decision always belongs to the Guild Leader, any problems with that?
Or the community can just delve deeper into the toilet. Maybe it would self police eventually, but why take the risk? What games leaves the community to sort itâs own issues out? We have proper reporting channels for a reason. Not this eye for an eye bullshit.
@Autentist Well Iâm sure the people stuck in towns because they were being held hostage didnât think it was extremely fun/
As for the rest of your post. You just described the new system. It is down to the guild leader to accept the challenge. So yeah, if thatâs what you see as a compromise I donât know what you think the consent system is.
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growing crops CANNOT be done by every player in the game. If my understanding of guild mechanics is correct, you are not allowed to plant in someone elseâs guild tower.
You keep saying âitâs your own decisionâ and yet youâre defending not having a decision. Yes, I did throw the 500 man guild number out from nowhere, but nothing is stopping 10+ âsisterâ guilds from all making the same declarations.
If itâs the way you want to put it, yes I am a âpve crabâ. I donât find fighting other players fun. Never have and probably never will.
@black_light
I could be presumptuous since I never played it, but the reason diplomacy worked in RO was because socialization wasnât dead then. Nowadays if you were to ask a guild lead why theyâre attacking you, chances are all youâll get is a âbecause your face is uglyâ in response.
I can agree with this, but Iâm going to get more specific and say that the contribution that guild wars make can be positive and negative, and we need a way to keep guild wars âhealthyâ, the Great War of Ausurine being an example of âunhealthyâ guild wars. If the dramaâs allowed to infect people who want nothing to do with it, something needs to be done to stop it from getting to that point.
That involves handing some control to the system, which some people in this thread arenât OK with. As long as we have the ability to share towers/castles or opt out of WoE-like events Iâm fine.
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Why have a fun MMO? instead of the generic trash that everyone forgets about like 99% of mmos?
Because fun is subjective. Also can you give a good example of a game where the community effecively polices themselves? Hell this forum struggles to effectively police itself.
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There wasnât open war in Ragnarok there was/is designated maps and time frames which the wars take place to capture castles that provide items to create the some of the best or near best equips in the game.
I mean, one Guild Leader announces war with another Guild. It starts without the other side agreeing.
THEN people are asked, if they want to participate in this PvP war.
Now this option gives people more freedom to choose - participate or not participate, otherwise, they are dependent on the Leaderâs decicision. So there are people who want to go to war and there are people who donât, itâs fine. But give the option to choose to the people themselves.
Donât limit the entire system.
==>Someoneâs else Tower
And this does not answer my question in any way. ANY player in your Guild can grow crops in Guildtower.
Thatâs why Iâm talking about having a choice - look further in my posts above.
See, itâs still about the choices. But itâs your choice, not your Leader. With this system you limit this choice, by inducing it on everyone.
Why should it start without the other side agreeing? I donât have any beef with half a guild fighting without their other half if thatâs what they choose, but what youâre suggesting doesnât help with that at all. (and incidentally, the system we have now is still closer to that than the one before.)
Because, Jesus Christ, there are people in your Guild, who actually freaking want to start a war.
And then⊠nope, you got shafted. See? You limit their choices by this system. If you had a choice, then they will go to war, while you will grow your crops or whatever you want.
Basically, you wonât be ganked, since you CHOSE to not participate in this, like system marks you. Understand now?
Let me see if I get this process right
- âBig Badsâ has declared war on your guild, would you like to participate? Y/N
- I opt not to participate and instead babysit my giant hamster farm, which needs to be inside my guild tower
- The pvpers in my guild lose to âBig Badsâ
- âBig Badsâ destroys my guild tower an wins the war
- My giant hamster farm is now gone as a consequence of pvp activity I opted out of
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Once again this is why i proposed the option for Social / War guild during creation.
The we donât lose a awesome pvp system and people afraid of pvp can have their peaceful guilds that can nether declare war or be declared on.
Then donât join the guild with PvP intents. Or donât join the guild at all.
You are being really egocentric right now towards people who want to participate in PvP with your hamster farm.
And one more thing. If your Guild loses⊠that means you were weak. Itâs simple.
I already said Iâm fine with everyone having a choice. hereâs the part in paricular I was replying to
Why should it start without the other side agreeing? Why not Declare war> Propmt to agree > Those who agree, fight/those who donât, donât.
And Iâd just like to point out again, that the system in place now still offers more choice than the old one. You were talking a big game about âwhy do you choose to join a guild then!?â earlier. Well, this argument actually applies now. If someone wants to pvp then it makes sense for them to join a pvp guild.
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It gives more dynamic feel to PvP events. Just my line of thinking.
Or we could have a system where people with PvP intents are able to fight versus other people with PvP intent, while not bothering those other people that donât care about PvP.
Oh, wait, thatâs the consent system. So, no problem then.
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Haha, no. If the Guild leader disagrees with the war, then the entire Guild wonât participate in PvP.
Well thats pretty weak reasoning. I mean I canât even properly explain to you why thats bad reasoning because itâs little more than a reword of âbecause I like itâ You think it feels more dynamic? Well other people think it feels more annoying, and they arenât playing the game for your enjoyment.
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These guilds and individuals are out there, but im giving it the benefit of the doubt. If you are able to create a guild that is successfully able to compete in a gvg, you need to have at least a few things up your sleeve, because a guild ran by a monocell troll wont be able to do much, and for sure not gvg.
And thats on the devs. The gvg drama (as the name suggests) should be on the guilds, not the innocent bystanders.
Imho the person who started mass inviting should have gotten at least a warning, that this kind of borderline scam behavior is not viewed as positive, but to put in a nutshell: The devs failed to contain a part of the game where it belongs, then failed again by instead of fixing the issues that let it spin out of control, simply locking up the feature itself.
As stated in my first post:
- Guild invite screen would need to be distinguishable from a mere invite
- Enemies should not be able to stroll inside your guild hall and wreck the place
- Loosen up on the ânobody leaves guilds during sessionsâ rule (at least let those leave who got scammed)
- Might add that for this latter part im a bit skeptic, because if you accepted the guild invite, then take this as learning experience. Do not randomly accept tossed around invites. Even i would not join a guild that has its standards so low, that it wont even contact you and say 2 words, but instead throw an invite screen at you because of mass invites. That in itself is telling about how that guild works and/or functions.
Whats the point of having any form of events if you can opt out of them, also how would that work? You have something the others want and then you refuse to give it up, but also refuse to take part in a battle for it? Thats like wanting to play tag while claiming that you are immune to being âitâ.
But tbh im not sure how the current system works to begin with. What is the point of gvg? Is there something to be gained from it?
I mean in old ragnarok each guild castle produced unique drops which could not be attained from anywhere else in the game. You had to hold the castle and develop it if you wanted in on the rare rare stuff.
However, whats the center piece here? GvG for the fun of it? That sounds dubious.
See if you had Ragnarokâs system then the solution would be blatantly simple: If you do not take a castle, you do not have to participate in the entire woe business. You wont even have to âopt outâ because you are not a part of it to begin with.
Lastly: dont confuse my words. SOME control over the system is part of the deal. Having a system in the first place means that its a controlled environment.
Im against locking down entire feature sets such as open world pvp, because the devs cba to fix guild invites, allow players to leave, and/or there are idiots who randomly join guilds during war hours and then decide on the spot that nope, they changed their mind so they want out.
Soz, but if you bend your knees to every whiner without a thought, then its pointless for me to even install the game.
I mean it. Its not even out yet, but if thats the attitude we are going to have, there is no point in installing because in the next 6 months this game will be reduced to the same cliché, shallow trash experience of an mmo we already have hundreds if not thousands of.