Tree of Savior Forum

Druid C3: From one of the best C3s to the absolute worst

I think what IMC tried is to make Lycanthropy a short-lived bonus skill/buff skill instead of creating the same scenario as they did with e.g. Quarrel Shooter, where everything revolves around getting C3 for Running Shot while the rest of the skills are situational at best.

You still have a ton of other skills and the Henge Stone changes support this theory, going from basically a transformation support skill to a all-around support skill.

Druid also gained 2 more skills to utilize for C1 and C2 on top of a boost on Chortasmata and Carnivory.

Analyzing the changes, it is very apparent that IMC tries to shift away the focus from transformation to the new vegetation-focus.

By the way, the Lycan changes were actually aimed at physical builds like e.g. Inquisitor/Zealot that benefit by the short duration of the skill since they can use the lycan form to cover the time their skills are on CD (great for God Smash/Fanatic Illusion/Immolation that have medium-high CD times), offering a build alternative as hybrid Clerics.

I agree,though, that they could have changed the lycan 1 form buffs to be added via an attribute that shortens the duration but gives e.g. more Block penetration/Aspd/AoE attack ratio/etc to the skill.

At the same time,though, there’s the demi wolf for people who don’t want filler transformation but rather a stable boost. Given the uptime/downtime ratio without Melstis, it is still viable.

Look at Zealots Fanaticism buff e.g., it has less boost potential and the same CD/uptime ratio, while Lycanthropy’s Demi-wolf from is also providing extra crit, base HP% recovery (Fanaticism trades off your recovery for damage boost!!!) and the ability to dash.

Not every buff needs 100% uptime to be good, and this buff is still good even with only 25% or 50% uptime.
It also encourages the transformation-loving people to utilize other transformations, not only the werewolf.

It was a terrible change. Everyone agrees it was.

Heres Inven posts stating its a terrible change.
http://www.inven.co.kr/board/tos/4198/83756
This one asks “so whats even the difference between druid 2 and 3 now…”.

http://www.inven.co.kr/board/tos/4198/83750
This one says best druid is now druid 2 and exo 2

http://www.inven.co.kr/board/tos/4198/83726
This one is a dude who actually has video of using it in a raid comparison of old vs new. His weapon is around 6-8k att (Velcopter mace)
He even states that hengestone was pointless to use cause it just gets broken from the damage it can take or when the enemy moves you can no longer get the benefit.
He also says after using Lycanthropy against the raid boss he decides its not worth it and just switches to Awoo attribute because Wolf forms duration is too small.
Also says vine is just better than seed bomb.
Proof of him with videos:


If you watch the video it also shows what @thepurpleknightmare is saying about the bonus 100% hp while in lycan form for only 30 secs. Its pointless because its a waste of your heal tiles. The duration of lycanthropy lasting only 30 secs makes having 100% bonus hp meaningless.

You say that, but look at every substantial and non-substantial gameplay changing skill/buff we can get on any class. All can be 100% uptime some way or another.

Didn’t really even matter since people already go have Druid 2 builds. Especially now with the new Exo rank. With your thought in mind it basically became the meme “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

That’s a moot point because again, we already have this current functionality. Not only that we have Awoo attribute which gives crit and physical att bonus. Again “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

2 Likes

u mean demiwolf? so only normal wolf cant be extended? or its a bug?

The Hengestone changes are pointless, it doesn’t live long enough to ever make a difference, and this game is getting harder and harder for structure and summon classes. With world bosses demolishing Diev statues and Sorc/Necro summon durability being so bad it can’t be played in any serious content. Those things are some of the tankier summons to, this pile of rocks is gonna fall over far faster, and it’s of far less benefit. If it doesn’t give max hp, % damage or crit to summons, it won’t be worth taking anymore, an increase in duration means nothing when bosses one shot this skill.

Idt they’ve increased it’s durability ever, but I would have times back during old Blut, you know 200 mill(?) hp Blut, where I would summon the Hengestone, just to transform and it would break before the animation of it’s summoning finished, I would just lose out on the effect of it. Trying to turn that into a buff is not gonna work, it’s good for 1 or 2 skills and then it’s dead. Won’t work in PvP, won’t work vs world bosses, especially will not work in Velcoffer, CM, or even ET.

It might work in Saalus if you already melt the boss, save yourself .2 - .5 seconds by using it before fighting. However other than that, this is a pointless change.

Normal wolf and Demi-wolf can’t be extended.
Heres the link to the KToS patch notes:

Heres a picture of the patchnotes stating Melstis no longer works for them:


and the one for Awoo (demi-wolf) that @Fenatte posted.
image


Also to add, here’s Nekorin also talking about the Lycanthropy change.

Only normal wolf can’t be extended, demiwolf CAN be extended.
@megamanex14 You keep posting that, ok that’s what the patchnote says. But I’m telling you, I’m on ktest server and tested again on purpose after reading it and I can say that you CAN extend demiwolf, so why do you keep posting that? It’s obvious there’s an error in the patchnote

1 Like

i have a hope its an error not a bug in game :slight_smile:

Is it possible they implemented the patch where you can’t extend demi with melstis in the live server and not in the test server?

It would be pretty weird honestly, never heard such a thing. Usually everything is on ktest before

@Staff can anyone say for sure if melstis will or will not work with demi-wolf form?

i bet they not sure about this too :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

truly wouldn’t be surprising…

There is so much discussion about whether it can be extended or not but even IF it can be extended, that’s not 100% uptime, even with Diev statue. you can get 96 second CD and 100 second duration, but it’s not 100% uptime still,

Transform + Meltsis - 80 seconds
60 seconds later
Melstis - 40 seconds remaining
40 seconds later
Melstis on CD, “Wolf” duration up.

If everything goes perfect for you 20 second downtime.

yea but awoo form cd can be reduced to 0 i think :wink:

Melstis CD with Diev statue is 48 seconds,though.

So you’d have 96 seconds CD, 60 seconds duration.
Use Melstis-> ~78 seconds duration
After 48 seconds-> use Melstis ->~ 50 seconds duration
48+50 = 98 seconds, CD was 98 seconds, so you’re good to go (and you’ll have Melstis up again if you craft another Laima inbetween).

However, it’s stupid to waste 4 Ranks just to keep the transformation going, it’s better to just take Diev 1 for the statue and run with less CD.
Maybe sth like C2>Diev3>Druid3>x

The last class you’d be looking for is probably Miko since it works well with Druid and Diev, but anyways that still brings us back to 1 of the 2 main issues I brought up.

Not 100% uptime, not even really transformed, playing another human.

Can’t call it Druid if it’s not doing what Druids do.

I don’t understand the issue that the remake the druid to something excited hybrid druid can do magic and transform to Lycan with super frenzy killing move with so less delay on skill . Compare to old druid the new one way more better and why does people wants the Lycan to be 100% up time when they changes more OP as it is ? .Does now days ppl like old druid ? ? .So confuse here . . . Druid suppose to have ability to transform but never said to be imprison to be dog and that call dog or druid you looking for ? .

People were happy with the initial lycan changes; 100 sec duration 120 cd. You could still make use of the 100% + hp and you can use awoo ass filler in between lycan uptime along the buffs making up for the nerfed duration. It’s the fact that they then went from 100 sec to 30 sec with the same cd being the problem.

Lycan is one of those skills that you build an entire build around, it’s simply not some filler/sub skill that supports a build. It IS the build. Just like running shot, you build your entire AA archer build around that 1 skill. RS now has 300 sec duration. Imagine if IMC took it back down to the original 23 sec cd duration, how many archers do you think would rage, let alone quit the game? That RS buff no longer made the grand cross a required item and quarrels also have more flexibility as to what weapons they can put in that slot now.

3 Likes

THIS RIGHT HERE! ALL OF THIS!
This Spaghetti gets it!

1 Like

You not making sense here .If you compare to other classess gameplay AA archer build then why not you do whole comparison AA-> inquisher(cleric),Nakmuay(swordie) too?, wouldn’t be better ? You not looking for a build you looking for everything OP for your own build thats all people can view you guys now don’t you even test and tried . . . You go tell imc don’t even revamp and happy druid now . . . Go make a game yourself . Druid itself has bring upgrading to another style I watch so much druid video play was so good