Tree of Savior Forum

Dragoon 3/Lancer 2 rank 9 theorycrafting

Class and Rank Swordsman
#64

Oh yea I missed that since I only browse swordsman sub-forum and news section. SP seems like the biggest issue of new Cata.

EW: No one fully tested EW yet (KD on + acrobat mount) + high end spears with high trans + crit build because all the damage now comes from the weapon, skills only act as multiplier. So it would be more accurate if someone with OP gears will use that on end game scenario (meta). Right now my EW deals around 200k, if the patch comes here it would deal 4x at minimum if not 7x of my current 200k. Im even an evasion-con build, if I focused on crit build the damage will soar.

SP drain is nasty though like Nekorin has said. Steed charge seems needed timing maybe only 1 sec window in order to use twice. Maybe we should avoid charging steed charge and use it right away on the 2nd charge for it to work consistently so turning around 90 degree will waste the charge.

I like the change, SP drain wont hurt me that much as long it gives damage boost where cataphract seriously lacking(stuck at r6 with little to no buffs). I know some option to mitigate this SP drain con. Cant wait to test all the builds myself when it gets here.

#65

on mounting skills, i.e. those that can only be used when mounted on a Companion

On this description only cata and lancer skills are upgraded. Skyliner is still riding excluded.

#66

Does Joust consider as shock debuff to increase pierce hoplite damage?

I planned to rollback to lancer 2 with below build. Hoplite 2 for pierce buff and finestra for initiate block stats with high con build.

https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/skill-planner#11144777hh.23.2a3a71.11658a.6a

#67

Only highlander crown and dragoon soar have shock debuffs afaik. Dragoon soar is by chance so it is unrealiable. Crown have 5 secs instant debuff, enough time to nuke 2 pierce. Im also gonna use same build as you but with highlander in rank 2 spot for pierce boost. Good bossing potential, with crit build in mind. Doompike + finestra, crown-pierce, crush-quintain. Fillers will be stabbing, acrobatic mount on Lancer’s crush, joust and unhorsing.

Yep, I thought so. For me it should be all mounted skills since being on a mount is huge disadvantage because of limited skills availability. We cant even afford to use hidden class shinobi where unmounted class enjoy.

#68

New changes indeed makes cataphract more interesting but it’s not enough to put the class back to pedestal. Personally, I would exchange all these new changes for an exclusion of knockdown in the CC nerf, heck I would not care if they reduce the damage even more. Because in reality only SW’s “mini CCs” suffered the most in the recent CC nerf; cryoschronos, and the CC king kino barely felt it. Cataphract specializes in PVP for mini CC and mobility, recent changes killed it entirely and class has barely room for PvE.

In SEA there are only 2 catas remaining that are active in TBL, I mained cata for 6K hours of gameplay because I really love the class and keeping up somehow through gears, but the DPS in R9 probably won’t give me the luxury to continue so and might be resetting to hopcorgoon.

possible general suggestions:

  • reduce post delay of all SW skills probably change them to around; 0.45 sec; SWs are melee by nature and need not suffer from delays even more which makes us very easy to dodge just by moving and jumping, I challenge IMC staffs to play SW in TBL and land hits without any means of CC.
  • entirely get rid of fake multihits and make a standard true multihits, this is one of the reason why it’s block and dodge meta.
  • implement weapon restriction to magic classes through book, staves or orbs.
  • apply AoE ratio to 'AoE magic skills.
  • apply block mechanic to ‘single hit magic skills.’

and quoting my post half month ago::

Full rotation of mount skills with full duration of rush is only 1/3 of my SP pool, even if the SP usage is doubled, there is still room for highlander skills, I’m sw1>h2>cata3>cor1>lancer currently with mix solm set. SP usage will not be as bad as hacka and will not pose much problem pre-end game. SP issue will only be to those who are new to the game.

#69

Tested Joust skill, it’s not a shock debuff altho effect is similar. Moulinet didn’t get double damage from it

#70

afaik its silence against magic class.

#71

It have 2 effect I guess but the first description is really similar to Shock status.

Joust
[Physical] - [Pierce]
Charges forward to lunge the spear at the enemy and destroy magic circles. The target’s INT and SPR stats get reduced and cleric and wizard types will be silenced and normal attacks and skills cannot be used.

Shock[edit]
A shocked target will see their INT and SPR temporarily decreased.

Skills inflicting shock:

Crown (Highlander)
Gather Sorpse: Shock (Fletcher)

#72

I think the recent changes boost cataphract viability in PVE more than in PVP. If these changes turned out to be good specially in solmiki and demon world bosses then cosplaying remaining Cataphracts now have a reason to use the class for PVE too. In exchange of being garbage in PVP somehow IMC wanted the remaining endangered species called Lancer to accept the faith and move into new world (PVE) completely forgetting what Lancer is for.

In all seriousness, If I would be given a choice between current cata or previous cata (full duration trot, useful restrain) i would pick the current one. The difference maybe in play style. Since evasion nerf and PVE nerf, i dont consider restrain as good skill anymore, because everybody in cleric PVP just reset their char to have stun immunity. I use rush as damage and for removal of revive and r7f buffs making life easier for my party. New EW and additional Rush damage + Lancer damage boost similar to dragoon helmet would effectively boost my playstyle. SW3 is yea a bad build now for Cata3 because of CC nerf that totally killed its use for cata3. This is really a bad habit of IMC, changing the niche of class making those people who invested a lot shunning off the class. Current iTOS lancer is just huge silver sink, no PVE value and PVP value. Im also thinking of disposing my 2 handed-spear before the Cata change because the future is really looking bleak but these changes made me consider cata class a bit. If IMC intention did not materialize, i would main hop dragoon as well using 1 hand spear-shield/dagger. The future is bright for dragoon builds both PVE and PVP.

I agree with all. I think there is a chance IMC would notice these suggestions if you make separate SW/Cata/Lancer viability suggestion thread focusing on improving the class. We current dont have one for Lancer. Specially that shield - 2 handed-spear switching. Thats the only survival mechanism we have. If people see Lancer, you nuke that, it would be dead right away, which is retarded as PVP focused melee class.

#73

I think it’s unfortunate what happened to restrain, they went a bit overboard there but I think the biggest loss to cata PvP is actually the removal of stagger from rush.

Anyways, what’s this about full duration trot? Nm just remembered trot is nerfed in PvP but i forget by how much.

#74

I also cant remember well lol but It was changed when Im about quit the game sometime in June. I dont know if 50% speed reduction or duration reduction. Either way it makes Cata complete trash taking away the only perk of being a Cataphract, it shows IMC didnt play the class. Trot nerf + restrain nerf = Garbage Lancer. Thats why Tanzen used Highlander 2 instead of sword 3 because it doesnt make sense for Cata 3 anymore.

I think, when IMC doing the rebalancing for Cata, they wanted to bring back this mobile signature of Cata but in a different way. Steed charge + new charge of Lancer will make it quite agile but still the shadow of its former glory. However this new Cata will deal more painful blows not just from 1 time 1 use trot+restrain+rush but from deadly EW as well, you dont wanna get hit by that EW because youll most likely going to die and it has huge aoe to boot.

I understand Lancer role is different now. New change doesnt guarantee can compete against new R9 classes of cleric and wiz in TBL. We picked Lancer because of anti-personnel skills. New EW + More damage + New Lancer charge against unnerfed trot and restrain. They nerfed core skills, then buff some, it just equalized the previous nerfs meaning we only gain what we lost before if not we gain less from new R9 where as Wiz and Cleric just keep on getting stronger every patch.

#75

IIRC, it was when the skill damage was reworked and everything became weapon dependent, which was an indirect nerf resulting to a very weak rush damage output even weaker than lvl 5 cyclone, catagoon builds became less viable in ET.

Restrain would have been fine if the slow after-effect is as good as oblique shots’s slow effect or arrest’s slow effect but unfortunately it’s very weak and barely felt.

2H spear is also at the disadvantage. Soon, there will be 3 socket shield that will offset the additional sockets from new 2H spears, even better because offhand gems give stronger stats. The 1000 approximate damage difference that is further reduced inside TBL is nullified by shield shield options, and gets worst as level grows since option and shield defense values grows as well. Nontheless, 2H gives spear class the highest possible raw attack outside PVP but that’s it.

#76

Does anyone know if Cata’s new Acrobatic Mount works with Dragoon skills while mounted? or does it only work for Cata and Lancer skills? I do not know if someone has tested this yet.

#77

Only works for skills that are “Ride Only” (a.k.a. only Lancer and Cataphract skills).

1 Like
#78

Does anyone know if the new cata’s skill is flat or not?
.

  • (skill factor x% + 50%)

or

  • (skill factor x%)x1,5
#79

‘‘Acrobatic Mount’’ is a multiply over skill factor. I found the answer here.

  • (skill factor x%)x1,5
2 Likes
#80

only lancer has that skill to dismount people right?

#81

Yea afaik. Lancer vs Lancer. Unhorsing vs Unhorsing. The one who lands the skill will win. PD sometimes can kill the pet while youre mounted, which will force you to unmount, probably a bug.

#82

I won’t worry about too much then =D. SInce Lancer is under represented .

#83

Well i start to like my dragoon again so im looking for a semi pvp build.
How about Sw1>Pelt1or sw2>Hop3>Corsair>Dragoon 3.

Or will Lancer be better after they buff Cata?

I like both cls thats why im in a little struggle now ^^