What do you guys think about these classes? I think Dragoon and Lancer marriage will start rank 9 onwards(hard to build). Lancer 2 skills should be stronger than dethrone and Serpentine debuffs to be able to compete for rank 9 spot, consequently Dragoon 3 should be juicier than Lancer c1 skills otherwise this build will get the best of both worlds xxx - xxx - dragoon c2 - lancer. BBBUUUUTTT the bigger question is, will these build can finally be able to compete when it comes to damage against cleric DPS?
lancer is pvp, goon is pve. hard to imagine a mixed build. goon is as weak as cata or corsair. definitely not the boss killer it should be. c3 skills can be good, can be a disappointment. considering goon has been neglected, its probably a bad c3 skill.
get goon working properly for PvE first if it’s supposed to be a PvE char.
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no love for goons ei?drag2 are utilities to heighten other patk in a party. if you got a shino mur or doppel3 in pt, the patk inc of goon debuff from serpentine and the inc of damage through gaebalg although minimal, can definitely make the other patk look cool instead of yours. goons are supposedly the mid range close range patk type with so so damage. they do not shine mostly but they are there for those who wants to play with a close range mid range type of player. they are good in pvp for hit and run tactics or dishing out close range combats and for pve they do decent damage if equipped right. Lancer is better for pvp purposes and still good in pve too but goons and lancers can never outshine other swordie class mainly for DPS purposes. Rare occasions they can outclass others.
now for the r9 content, would there still be people playing tos by then? i dunno but drag3 should be cool i guess, and drag2 + lancer? will it work? i think its better if you stick to lancer 2 if there will be one, or if the r9 content for drag3 skills are meh, then I dunno.
Im thinking of rerolling my hop3 goon2 to other swordie classes. I just cant get enough DPS to be a main stay for miki runs because good as it may for utility patk purposes, falc3 outshines drag purposes. Lancer may be more viable for DPS compared to drag2. I find it hard for a dragoon build to outclass other classes in terms of DPS and purpose. Its fun in PVP though.
Cheers for the love of goons and lancers xD I also love catas xD
IMC failed so hard they nerfed the only thing dragoon is good for (boss-killer). Hard to trust this moronic company when it comes to balancing. Mix is just basically Crush debuffs ( if the bug has been fixed) + Serpentine debuffs for dragoon rank 9 and Dethrone for Lancer PVP.
I know very well we have lots of stupid people here in the forum including you but do i really need to explain to you what theorycrafting means? Me playing a Cleric is not my point (though im playing lots cleric before, i dont need you to tell me what i play). Im not playing TOS anymore for 3 or 4 months+ already but if my memory serves me right, youre that garbage Lancer in TBL right? That never manage to get to top 100 XDDDDDDDDDDD, for sure my naked c3 alchemist can kill your Lancer anytime because you dont know how to use a Lancer.
correct me if im wrong, youre one of those people who thought dragoon is fine after rebalance? Rank 9 will probably come first before rebalancing dragoon to be more viable. Yea dragoon is very weak. Dragoon and Lancer in the making rely so much on pardoners blessings to do damage in PVE. I pity those people starting a dragoon and lancer as new players they had it very rough. Then after they diligently geared them up, they will find those classes garbage tier on every way you want it to be.
Dragoons are probably playing the class for boss hunting purposes, support skill like serpentine debuffs are very welcome but shouldnt be the only job for it.
I agree on your assessment for PVP. They have they own niche but when compared to other classes they flop hard, same can be said to PVE. I know one Lancer before i quit who has complete solmiki set high upgrade and high trans, the farthest he managed to climb is rank 10+ in 5v5, he eventually quit the classes after a week or two and played inquistor instead.
It will only work if Drag 3 and Lancer 2 flop so hard. Lancer is good in PVP because of purposes you had said, if you gave dethrone in lancer it will perform as utility and nuke as the same time. Dethrone can still one-shot people out before i quit i dont know now that most people probably have trans 10 armors but damage calculation prevents them to negate much. I personally see Dragoon 3 overshadowing Lancer 2 for rank 9 because like i said dethrone + serpentine debuff are high standard skills to pass up for rank 9 Lancer. Those skills are so good. Even serpentine debuff will outmatch crush and quintain lvl 10 as additional damage for Lancer 2.
Lancer and Dragoons are very bad for solmiki yep. Dragoons can clear 40f before the rebalance, now it cant even carry 20f as solo DPS. To add salt in insult IMC made, you cant even use your spear if you wanted to reset your class.
Weapon restriction for swordsman is the uttermost garbage restriction IMC fails to recognize. Mage and Clerics can switch classes over the counter and we cant for swordsman because of this garbage. Lancer bottleneck can only use 2handed spear should be remove. Same can be said to other swordsman classes skill-weapon compatibility. It should be remove entirely and let us players choose our classes synergy among ourselves like Clerics and Mages enjoy.
Too bad IMC treatment for us is very disappointing to say the least. IMC treating its playerbase idiots. tbh i only check things out here in TOS because my close friend told me tos will have woe like feature. I will probably play just because of that and its not even here yet.
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why does one build with pelt 1 rod3, two defensive classes dps harder than full hoplite goon “damage” classes just because of murm.
and murm can pvp pretty well while hop goon has 0 cc.
not only that goon debuffs helps others dps more than them during wb.
oh, and goon cant ET.
srsly goon would have been one of my main if only it could do something good.
why does shinobi bunshin work on shooting star and shield bash? what the hell.
well, if u cant beat them, join them. i made a metamurm and tossed out my hop goon.
What you are doing is not TheoCraft, these classes don’t even exists for you to be planning with it.
you are just DreamCrafting. This can’t even be called theory, just dreams.
I know: Why I to enter this type of posts if I don’t like it or care???.
Well, I feel so Dissatisfied about this type of posts, creating a “hype” and expectations on other people just to everybody feel empty later when Rank 9 don’t come fast (and when I mean fast, I mean, not at the time you all want). Creating expectations, theorys about something that don’t exist, about something that can be a completely different mechanic from now.
sorry, I just wanted to talk about it.
But go on, dream about it, do an article about it, using “scientific article structure”, and I grant you will not be losing your time, but learning something incredible while thinking about your dreams in game.
bye bye
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Simple fix for me is to give back the skill power dragoon had before the rebalancing and let dragoon be the top boss-killer again, like when IMC advertised to us, though crit was also a factor why dragoon was ok back then I believe we will get back the previous crit viability as the game progresses(future equips).
Yea, its logical to switch class after thoughtless nerfs by IMC. They trashes your hardwork just like that. Some dragoon even went to Lancer only to find it has tons of skills downtime. Yea, murmillo is a good choice, very strong indeed. Damage system made them very strong + evasion and block nerf so they dont need that much accuracy while boasting very high HP and shield compatibility. They can also clear solmiki if he has good trans weapon.
Well, we can still talk and plan beforehard if things dont go too well for rank 9. We are not necessarily required to pick new classes for rank 9. Rank 9 is basically just additional class slot for you, we can still pick previous class to fit your build for rank 9 slot like rank 8 shinobi/templar/corsair to name a few so its not close to being “dreaming”. Im losing brain cells explaining the obvious. You probably mistaking im magically presenting new skills of Lancer 2 and Dragoon 3. This can be avoided if we try to comprehend the OP. Knowing the future or considering it will give you huge advantage when the actual things get here, so its not creating expectation more like expecting the possibilities. Before, it will lead to failed build and rerolling if you failed one class so maybe because of previous class resets that made you indifferent about future class building.
If we follow the current skill lv scaling, Crush will have 1745% at lv10 and Quitain 1465% at lv10 (+150% under crush debuff = 3662%). By using Crush and Quitain twice within 30s (Quitain after Crush), we shall have an available skill power of 10841% from those two.
Now let’s take Serpentine lv10 (which will have a 1169%), Crush lv5 (1424%) and Quitain lv5 (1284%). Since Serpentine has 20s cooldown, whitin 30s we can use Serpertine once and then Crush+Quitain twice right after so we can boost the damage with Serpentine debuff. As far as I know, Serpentine debuff of +50% is in the same skill modifier group as the Quitain’s bonus under Crush (+150% + 50%), CORRECT ME IF I GOT THIS WRONG, okay? I won’t be upset 
If I am right, then we shall have 1169% from Serpentine, + 2136% x2 from Crush with Serpentine debuff, + 3852% x2 from Quitain with Crush and Serpentine debuffs, a total 13145% of AVAIABLE skill power from those skill alone. I did not consider Gae Bulg debuff and atk buff in this rotation.
But the thing is, that are still other skills (Dragontooth, Dragon Soar, Dethrone, Joust, Unhorsing and the skill from lower ranks) that we should consider, because they do impact our total avaiable skill power damage, and we do not know yet what are the Lancer C2 skills.
Considering just Crush, Quitain and Sepertine alone, Dragoon C2 LancerC1 has more damage output, so with if you are only going to use Crush+Quitain all the time, then having Serpertine in the rotation is hugely benefitial. But in my opinion, once rank 9 is out, we have to take the time and consider the other skills impacts all well (specially if there is a rebalance).
Now what I do hope is that Dragoon C3 get two different skills, one mounted exclusive and the another unmounted exclusive. I think this would be good for build variety, in particular if you are going to mounted Dragoon gameplay. One other thing I was thinking about is Companion riding attribute for Dragoon C3, I thought about this after the balance news that C3 Paladin would get the Shield Guard attribute that other two C1 classes have. What do you people think about Dragoon C3 have riding independence from Cata and Lancer?
Now what I do hope is that Dragoon C3 get two different skills, one mounted exclusive and the another unmounted >exclusive. I think this would be good for build variety.
then again you can unmount to use that unmounted exclusive skill, there goes the variety …
but yeah by far dragoon C2 lancer C1 seems to be the meatiest path so far DPS wise at least.
For Lancer C2, guessing that we may have this skill Head Strike, which was introduced during R8 release but was not implemented. Current skill features are quite unappealing; no overheat, 50% crit chance, 30% chance to stun, hope they revise it if it will really be the C2 skill. They also mentioned something about being able to ignore magic circles while having initiate buff, maybe similar concept to how murmillo’s helmet ignore magic damage, which is promising because it could make lancer function as a vanguard and add to survivability which lancer really lacks at this point, higher uptime of initiate is also welcome specially matches are expected to be less fast paced.
As for existing skill multipliers, it will look like these for dragoon C3 and lancer C2, just play arount the skill points.
Dragoon C3
https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1fff.2f5a
Quintain lvl 10 is 1574% so it would be 11360% after 2 crush and 2 quintain. Still not enough however.
I dont know myself how serpentine debuff and quintain with crush debuff would exactly play in calculation, It could be 50% after the total of 150% from crush debuffs. Either 4815% or 3852% for quintain with serpentine and crush debuffs. So it might be 15071% instead of 13145% for grand total. Lancer c2 can only dish out 11360%.
Yes, thats why dragoon 2, Lancer c1 will overshadow Lancer 2 damage wise. Lancer 2 will only get 1 damage skill for sure whereas Lancer c1 with Dragoon 2 will get Dethrone, Serpentine, Dragoon soar, Gae bulg for skill rotations. I dont think that new Lancer skill can outdamage Dragoon 2, the gap is huge. On the other hand Dragoon C3 needs to surpass 15071% skill damage from quintain with crush+serpentine combo and +30% additional rush damage from initiate.
It would be cool for Dragoon to have separate mount for the class however IMC never envisioned Dragoon to be a mounted class thats the problem. After beta or initial release of rank 7 in KR, using dragoon skills will force you to unmount or skills were unusable? Only after IMC suffered cursing from cataphracts that made their mind changed. Even now with new 30% additional rush damage from initiate they dont consider dragoon to be a cataphract future or a mounted class. I dont know why theyre trying so hard to limit our choices instead of letting the players dictate what is good for them or let them do what they wanted to build.
Heal tiles with trans 10 can 1 shot people out (IMC is proud on this creation truly magnificent) . Having resistance to this abomination is a huge factor for Lancer c2,only if IMC will implement what they advertised more than a year ago for rank 9.
IMC: look here the class for rank 8 that can boast immunity to magic circle, so flashy right? With this you can kill those clerics and magics as your PVP purpose.
Future Lancer: Sugeee, so this class is anti-magic right? (i dont know why you need immunity from heals but whatever) Im gonna main this baby boy because magic sucks.
IMC: heh.
Lancer: WTF, what is this? A heal that can kill? And where is my magic circle immunity go?
IMC: Suck it up, it is just a matter of skills thats why you lost, It is not a Cleric but skill. Smarten up so you can win sometimes.
Lancer: Damn top 100, 90% are clerics. Is this a dream or a fantasy?
IMC: Rankings dont matter, we still feel clerics are underpowered so we have no choice but to give them buffs even further. We are going to throw fishbone buffs for Lancer so it would be balanced.
Looks like Lancer’s path will be the path of commit to Initiate, speacilly if there is an attribute to resist those magic circles at Lancer C2. This is will probably lead to keep going down this path for Lancer C3 in the future, for that Initiate 100% uptime (and huge block penetration).
As for Dragoon C3, right now I think that unless Dragoon C3 has some sort of pretty good +2000% dmg skill or/and a very good c3 attributes, Dragoon C2 Lancer C1 will be by far a better choice.
Nope I stopped playing the game after cata-goon got nerfed hard lol instead of switching to murmillo like some others. So I’m basically on hiatus now.
The problem seems to be that cata-goon used to be good at both PvE and PvP, and now it’s good at neither.
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it’s hard speculating… We need to see what the dragoon helmet gives you and what lancer 2 has in stock… I guess Goon 2 Lancer is a possibility though…
Dragoon C3
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unblockable 4255% multiplier skill
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x2 dragon soar damage (from x2 hits attribute)
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+20% dragoon skill damage (helmet buff)
Lancer C2
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gap closing charge skill with 50% chance to stun for 3 sec
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all debuff prevention and remover buff with low cd (15 sec at lvl 5)
When you put it that way, dragoon c3 doesn’t seem that bad I guess.
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It seems like goon3 is full dps and lancer2 is an offtank utility.
Dragoon 3 seems like to be the hardest hitter. Debuff prevention is just a knock off version of Beak mask and Counter spell. I doubt dragoon can out damage new skills from other classes though, specially Clerics.
New Lancer c2 skill has 2353% x2 damage. Dragoon c2 dethrone has 1238x2 +50% serpentine debuff. Close to each other but Dragoon2 Lancer 1 still have dragoon 2 skills.
Hook then Lancer c2 skill for gap closer. Lancer 2 still suffering from lack of long-range skill. Still weak against unhorsing so cant aggressively kill classes with Lancer c1. Dragoon 3 still have the advantage of range. PVE wise still the same strat for Lancer as ever.
Im curious how Dragoon 2 Lancer 1 could fair against Dragoon 3 and Lancer 2 in PVP and PVE.
Dragoon jump is the same as Mokuton no jutsu on mount. Problem with mokuton is so buggy as fuk. Dragoon jump will be suicide skill if youre not careful like mokuton.
This…
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