Tree of Savior Forum

DEX vs STR debate

Class and Rank Archer
#143

I have an Archer that is full DEX so I can give some input (He is only lvl 100 so take it as you will):

DO NOT GO FULL DEX unless you have a specific plan in mind.

For myself, I went full dex because I was planning out my build from the start as a duo party.

  1. I focused my build around kneeling shot. I never even use any other skills besides kneeling shot and other buffs like swift step so don’t ask me about skill damage with this build. I can tell you though that non-kneeling-shot-auto-attacks are PATHETIC. If you don’t plan to get kneeling shot lvl 10 don’t bother going full dex, it is a mistake, I gurantee it.

  2. Me and my friend planned our builds from the start to synergise with each other. I’m full dex Archer, he is full spr cleric. He is lvl 100 and his lvl 10 Zalciai currently gives 270+ Crit Attack. He will get lvl 15 eventually.

Now for some numbers (again around lvl 100):
NOTE: Numbers are approximate as different mobs have different crit resistances and different defense values.

Crit chance:
95~99% outside of dungeons. (Approximately same lvl mobs)
Around 85%~ in dungeons where mobs have higher crit resist. (Approximately same level mobs)

This is with both swift step and kneeling shot crit rate bonus attributes.

I’ll provide the Crit Rate number value later. I can’t log in now because I’m at work.

Non-flying mobs with kneeling shot:
830~ per crit
1050~ per crit with Zalciai

Against flying mobs:
1800~ per crit
2100~ per crit with Zalciai

Without kneeling shot I don’t even know the numbers, but I do know that they are LOW. I never shoot standing up.

#144

just found this, any opinions ?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s_Tkib5vkU6jZwH7iJw6mvT2CaORAs0LkX7rQENxapA/edit#gid=0

#145

I re-specced to full Dex after building 3:1 str/dex and I’m level 226 right now. with full lvl 50 leather mastery. I dodge tank bosses while everyone else gets knocked around and I still don’t have to chug pots until later because of lvl 220 gear enhanced to +3 for physical defense when I do get hit. The only problem I have is magic defense, still working on upgrading bracelets/neck. Instead of Petamion, I use a Conqueror, and my +5 Maga Bow slotted with 2 lvl 5 green gems gives 1020 hp on top of that, so I have 12k hp as an A1R3F3 with tons of evasion.

The argument with str vs dex is how much you can compensate for the other stat with gems or hair enchants. For me, full dex made sense because I am currently stacking +170 crit attack on hair pieces, which equates to an effective 170 str on crit since 1 str = 1 phys attack and 1 crit attack. Whereas stacking crit chance is a lot harder because gems past lvl 5 are such a pain to lvl up, and crit chance on hair pieces only goes up to 13, so even if all 3 hair pieces had 13 crit rate, it’d only total up to 39 effective dex.

Another big part of the argument on str vs dex is what class build route you intend on taking. I can go full dex because Fletcher skills have such high base dmg that critting for them is insane, while adding str to an already high base dmg skill would only equate to around 250 more dmg per hit as @sudonim7 said. For auto attack builds like A1QS3FalconMusk, for sure stacking more str makes sense since they rely on fast, consistent dmg, whereas I spam spells and jump around to dodge, meaning high burst dmg on crit, but low dmg on non-crits, but the high dex ensures that I crit more reliably.

Ultimately it’s up to you and what you’re comfortable with. I have low carry weight, which super sucks, and it takes a lot of money for this build to be effective, but with enough investment it’s truly great. 3:1 Str/dex Fletchers have higher carry weight, but chug through pots like crazy since their dodge isn’t as reliable, but they know for sure they have high consistent dmg when they’re allowed to spam spells. This argument is for Ranger/Fletchers ONLY though, because Wugus, Hunters, Sappers, and Rogues all scale very differently. And as I mentioned earlier, A2QS3FalconMusk builds have completely different scaling and stat distribution as well.

3 Likes
Come Earth Tower, is Stone Skin worth the trouble?
#146

True str for auto builds but what about the kneeling shot archers? This is kinda a wtf am I supposed to do moment. if I go a2 qs 3 falc musk most of my skills would be burst based [ snipe multi headshot ] correct so would I want to favor dex over str for autos if I plan on kneeling more due to haveing more evasion being safer on doing such? This is where I am always lost and looking for answers. I know I can’t ALWAYS be in kneeling stance but when I can be my play style would dictate I would be. I know it isn’t no kneeling lv 10 from a c3 but I went for the support dps route for ET groups.

#147

Hi! I made that. :slight_smile:

@boqqtzz
STR vs DEX isn’t about how much you can compensate the other stat, It’s about how much crit rate you want and at what point will crit rate benefit your skills.

@sirken14
Kneeling shot archers will definitely want to go DEX, even more so if you go cannoneer or musketeer. Kneeling shot should be able to replace auto attacks anyways. Any other build will almost always benefit from STR more.

#148

Hard eyeroll. Clearly it’s not just about compensating for one stat or the other, but it’s a major aspect of min-maxing when deciding on your str/dex distribution. People don’t debate without factoring in gems, party buffs, and other sources of the crit rate that aren’t explicitly from innate stats or self-buffs. Otherwise all the spreadsheets using damage/crit rate formulas would determine outright what’s best in all cases like it’s just a solo only game. But instead we have things like Krivis with Zalcai, Thaums with Swell Left Arm, crit rate/crit attack increasing gems, and hair pieces. What I mentioned is only part of the argument, but thank you for reminding me that there’s clearly more to it than the 2 sentences I mentioned. /s

#149

Indeed. I wish people would think critically when looking at my sheets Kind of like your response just now.

Not that i’m trying to be mean or anything. Thats just the type of impression i get from people here.

#150

Hey boqqtzz, im pretty interested in the things you did since you got to experience 3:1 str/dex and then full dex.

Just wondering, since you went full dex, do u think it would’ve benefit you more if you went Archer3/XXX/Fletcher3? Because of your high dex, kneeling shot would benefit a lot rather than Ranger3 maybe?

Also, how do you feel about Ranger3 after you got Fletcher3. Is Ranger3 skills still useful to you now that your Fletcher3?

#151

Hi Reilet! Very nice Work!!! Thank you for your effort on this!

Since you have more experience and i got confused in some parts, would you answer a question of mine?

I am pretty convinced that dex is over str, and that a mix, for example, like 3:1 dex/str is pretty good too. I am going R3/F3, did you find the best eficient mix in the dex/str rate while making your sheets?

i am sure that stacking critical atack in equips is going to be more easy to do, and i saw a video (is in the comments above) from a F3 from Ktos that he had like 40 str and about 300 dex, is that something you would recomend?

Thank you very much again for your effort in this discution!

#152

Work out the average base damage of the skills in your rotation, average them out then look that number up on the sheet linked above.

#153

Not the person you’re asking but im currently fletcher 2 ranger 3 and still use barrage spiral arrow and bounce shot quite often

I try to use barrage three times and bounce shot while im solo kiting since i cant stand still to spam crossfire

For me crossfire is great when grouping hard to use while solo which is what I do a lot outside of missions. Same with multishot great with a group but when being followed by a group of mobs you are solo aoe kiting spiral arrow wins out since i can just pop it off while moving and get on with my business as it shreds through somethings health.

Archer 2 in my opinion is good if you plan on exclusively doing dungeons/missions and do not plan on ever soloing

Ranger 3 is more for practical everyday play for the average solo player.

Theyre both really powerful just take which applies to you the most

#154

I disagree, well, half disagree i believe archer 1 quarrel shooter c2 (for stone shot 7 second stun) scout for stealth rogue c2 and musk for burst is the best ranger pvp build

#155

Tbh im still not sure. Compare 2 builds:

Base stats: 500 str 250 dex rank 8
Total stats(rank bonus): 900 str 250 dex (remember, if you use stat points on a stat>500, its effect is twice as effective.)

Vs

Base stats: 250 str 500 dex rank8
Total stats(rank bonus): 450 str 500 dex

Tbh i havent done the math yet, but I personally think the first one is better.

#156

Sometimes the first one will be better, sometimes it won’t be. The data has been fairly clearly laid out in the sheet linked above.

#157

Can u give me the link to the sheet? Its horrible to navigate the doc sheet on tos forums and I cant seem to find a way to get the link.

#158

@satomitakashi For 3:1 Str/Dex planning to go F3, I think for sure A2 instead of A3 would be more reasonable. Going A3 for Twin Arrows when A2 already provides Heavy Shot, lvl 10 Swift Step for 25% crit chance/full up-time, and lvl 5 KS, is a waste of a circle since Fletcher skills far out-damage Twin Arrows. The difference between lvl 5 KS and lvl 10 KS is negligible as well since it stacks additively rather than multiplicatively. Rank 5 KS formula comes out to Phys+(15+Dex), whereas lvl 10 comes out to Phys+(52+Dex). Assuming 250 Dex and 900 phys for arbitrary numbers, the difference between lvl 5 and lvl 10 is only 37 total dmg, with +23 range and +292 attack speed. Though since we’re assuming F3 rank 7, skill spamming is your forte rather than auto attacking, so again we’ll ignore the range and attack speed for now.

TL;DR A2 with a 3:1 Str/Dex distribution planning for F3 is for lvl 10 Swift Step with the 25% crit rate to make up for low crit rate, lvl 10 Multi, and lvl 5 Heavy. Going A3 is a waste. Since I had already gone 3:1 Str/Dex R3, re-speccing to full Dex made more sense.

As for R3, I feel it was worth it for me because lvl 15 Barrage with lvl 50 attribute dmg is still one of my go-to’s. It hits in a wide cone, drawing bigger aggro and doing lots of dmg for a relatively low SP cost with 3 overheat, whereas Xfire only hits in that cross, and Magic Arrow is a tiny AoE. Don’t get me wrong, MA is still my highest dmging spell, but for solo mobbing, the rotation is Bounce/Oblique to draw aggro, Steady Aim, put down an MA where the melee mobs will be grouped once they reach you, then 3x Barrage. That takes care of most groups of 8+ in 4 dmg spells. In a dungeon/party setting where you have Pelts and Linkers to group mobs into a tiny circle, MA will be your bread and butter, but Barrage afterwards is less SP intensive than maxed Xfire that has 0 cd, and is easily spammable to blow your whole SP bar. Don’t get me wrong, Xfire it still great, just easy to burn out on.

The other notable skill from R3, Spiral Arrow, is immensely useful for single target with 6 hits, the potential crit dmg can go up to 60k+ for me right now at 226. Ghosts that are immmune to Barbed, and mobs with plate armor, which only take 1 shot instead of 2-3 with leather/cloth mobs, go down to Spiral Shot almost immediately. As for lvl 15 Steady Aim, the nerf we got to it in iToS is heavy, reducing it’s duration to 10 seconds from 20, but is incredibly useful for high burst when I do have it available. Because I have low base dmg with no str and full dex, +20% total attack is more useful to me than the 25% crit from A2, whereas the opposite is true of more str prioritized builds.

@Reilet I guess I came off as defensive since I perceived your comment as condescending, as if I didn’t know any better. But I get what you mean when people don’t think critically for themselves and take anything they see in a spreadsheet as law.

1 Like
#159

No worries. I’m not here to fight with people. Only to help with information.

@pedro.altoe
For specific builds you will have to do a little more work with the spreadsheet to find out how it works with yours. Otherwise, do what dmhamilt said.

@Zilox
Please refer to this thread. This will answer (almost) all of your questions about the STR vs DEX debate (pvp not included)

#160

I have 110 Dex and 2x 22 from Green Gems. So that’s a total of 154 Crit Rate. How much Crit % is that at level 280?

#161

Roughly 22% crit rate

#162

For 30, 35 and 40 % Crit how much Dex would you need?

Btw this is for Swordies.