I bet you guys never heard about minimum and REQUIRED. Ofc you can go there, but it will suck for you if you go at minimum. At required you won’t have problems.[quote=“Melon, post:83, topic:314493”]
It’s quite the problem and people suggesting to simply be at map level or party up and just tough it out don’t see the issue IMC has created here.
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There is no issue created by IMC, every game if you try to beat much higher level mobs you will have a hard time or it will be impossible.
The minimum is to accept quests,and common sense would tell you that at the minimum,it should be harder yes,but not to the point of being 1-shot by monsters on the map.The gap between minimum to do quests and enemy levels/attack power on the map should not be so huge; especially when so many people do go at the minimum.That’s not everyone doing a bad build/stats or playing poorly,that’s bad map/game design.
That is fine when you have other,viable options for getting to the right level. You don’t have that at that level range in ToS,so you’re basically driven to do maps at minimum.Leveling guides literally tell you to card up only to the minimum of maps.
At “x” point you should grind. And leveling guides say that as well. And this point is alemeth forest to save cards to skip the level gap between evac and storage, also for the last levels. Lol.
Done blue spion map with each of the 4 classes and the only one I had problems was my first char that was rushed and I was too underleveled, the others I went there at the right time, and had no problem at all.
2 options, either you grind to make it easy or you try to party quest. But guess what, it’s better to come to the forum whine about the mob “being strong” and no, he isn’t, every spion archer is like that and they are all doable.
You see how trashy those who prefer playing archer/wizard/cleric are?
Swordies aren’t surprised by blue spion archers because this is our life!
Tanking a boss 10 levels higher than you in a mission? 2 shotted.
Burst dps swordie trying to kill a boss? 2 shotted.
Off-tank, mid con swordie? HAHAHAH 1 shotted.
Think you can disrupt the backline wizards in TBL? Frozen, 2 shotted.
Us swordies have been enduring the rage of IMC for the entire game. We were born with our backs on the heat of searing coals. We lived through the worst blizzard and the longest famine. Friends and enemies alike casted us aside as unworthy, unnecessary, unwanted. Yet we strived on. We endured. And in our pain, we learned to stand up when no one picked us up. And we triumphed when others fell.
Thus, I declare to you! Endure your blue spion archers, for in our path of defeat we grew strong. And so will you, those who pass the test of the blue spion archer!
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Exactly. And that’s why people are leaving en masse. It’s why I hardly play. It’s why the game is dying. I am helping bring light to an issue many people have, not just me. MANY people do not want to just grind for hours tediously waiting to reach a point where they don’t get 1-shot anymore on a map the game is telling them to quest on.
You aren’t wrong that those are the solutions, and that’s why so many people are choosing the latter option. The game has many aspects that people enjoy–me included. That’s why I come and voice my issues–because if those issues were resolved, I might actually enjoy this game. And I want to! But I can’t.
You are able to take quests 10 levels higher yes, and you’ll also take more damage while doing so.
You can CC the spion archers (as my Sorcerer did using Sleep), you can travel in a party.
Overwhelming majority of classes have CC and in some cases you can simple avoid them (Fade for instance of Cleric).
There is a Ton of in-game solutions even when underleveled to do quests in that area.
Spion archers only do credible damage because of Spiral Arrow, outside of that the damage is nothing special. Again you see Spion archers as early as your 20’s back in the Klaipedia side of the game, and they use Spiral arrow as well and it can take out 60%+ of your health even back then. However again, Crowd Control, defense skills, partying, etc allow you to get over this.
In the early game spion archers have next to no health so you can basically kill them before they do damage. Here while some classes can still manage a 1 or 2 shot @ 225, you ideally just want to use the assortment of tools that are available in the game to mitigate or prevent damage. The most simplistic and general of them is to up your defense with a Shield and Aspersion. Getting 600 Def in this case is fairly easy so then what is hitting you is the increase from the level penalty, which IIRC is 10% per level starting from level 5. That should be 60% more attack which is about what around 360.
Won’t be much of a problem unless they crit.
A cleric can just heal themself after eating 1 spiral arrow, if they dont already Safety Zone or fade it, or dodge it due to Aukuras.
Wizards
Sleep 5/10/15. Hell even Lethargy reduces the amount of defense they need to reduce damage to 1. There is of course Cryomancer’s crowd control, or Hell Pillar (though its a long CD) as a pyro.
Swordsman - Can Block the Spiral arrow (Peltastas will also get a defense boost for doing so), Or they can just eat it given Swordsman have 1) Higher base health than everyone else 2) Higher base defense than everyone else.
and follow up with Crowd Control.
Archer’s can also aim to CC. They can lure with Pavise if QS, use a pet to course/retrieve/Rushdog if a hunter, Crank up the evasion with Swiftstep and maybe plant an Aukuras skill scroll if they want to rely on RNG. Attempt CC with things like Flu Flu, Stone shot, etc.
Though I still just recommend Plate + Shield + Aspersion, handles it easily and there is a statue of valkarine their so you can get your aspersion whenever you have to travel in that map.
Of course travelling in a party you suddenly have other people making life even easier, and killing them before they attack can be a real possibility.
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“The lead game designer wants it this way” isn’t a legitimate argument, since you aren’t the lead game designer, and he has not specifically commented on the situation. You can’t speak for another person.
Chances are no one at IMC has ever actually play tested this game. Or if they have, they didn’t do it with a natural progression. They have no idea what’s going on in their game.
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There’s another big thing to take into account. The map is lv 22X, so you’re expected to have lv 220 gear and be in the correct level range. However, you’re lv 21X, so you -probably- have lv 170 gear. Isn’t it just normal you’re under-geared to handle such mobs? Should the game let you complete these quests despite your lower gear and level as long as you have “skill”? The decision of the game’s designers is no.
What the game is telling is just “Hey! Did you know there’s a quest here?” not “By now you should be able to do this easily!”
You should stop playing now. When you face Red Spion Archer that has more dmg and MUCH more hp you’ll cry us a river.
That’s poor game design, whether intentional or not.
[quote=“pedrothin2, post:96, topic:314493, full:true”]
You should stop playing now. [/quote]
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We are in an infinite loop. Tree of savior mechanics doesnt matter, whatever you say hilsun will quote himself like the game must play arround him, he cant change to make past it, the game must change for him to manage to level up.
Yeah the game design suck, the mechanics are way too easy.
All I read in this part of the thread was that you can’t deal with the fact that while playing a caracter with absolutly no CON you get one shotted by a mob more then 10 lvls higher then you, knowing that the monsters get a huge dmg boost if you are underlvl’d.
It’s not a ‘bad game design’, it’s a design you don’t like because it hurts your ego to die all the time.
There are multiple ways to stop being killed by those but you discard them all and say they are not a good solution. You can wear any type of armor without any penalties. You can party. You can CC them. You can have more def. You can come back to the map later.
But oh, you want to play a leather full dex/str CC less caracter with low hp. Guess what, that gets countered by a homing long range high dmg ability.
Deal with it!
I’m not sure why I’m even bothering at this point. xD Clearly no one responding to this thread is actually interested in the topic besides to accuse anyone speaking out about it of being baby whiners.
For, like, the fifth time now: there is a difference between difficult and stupid. This is artificial difficulty, not good game design.
Next topic gonna be: “my team is full of 260 and we cant handle earth Tower, look at those shamans, why let we in? We should be able to deal with it”.
An excellent strawman fallacy! Let me follow up with some questions regarding this hypothetical (and severely inaccurate) comparison between my argument and this new one:
Is Earth Tower supposed to be for parties? Is it end-game content, rather than normal progression, open world content? Is that portion of the game designed for players who have optimized and formulated some of the most efficient strategies they could muster, and equipped themselves with appropriate gear to handle said end-game meant-for-parties content?
If you answered “yes” to any of these questions, chances are: you don’t actually have anything relevant to say! 
CONGRATULATIONS!! bells chime and congratulatory music plays
People keep telling me to “get gud” at this game, but really people need to get gud at formulating coherent and relevant counter-points.