So it’s unfair that swordsmen can move across an area and get to the next one 10-20 seconds faster than other classes? Even if we got to a boss faster we’d have to sit there anyway to get our stamina back up a bit. Just every argument for this idea is stupid. Ranged classes are always superior in MMOs, why can’t we just have this 1 little thing? Not like it’s gonna break the game and ruin your experience cause you can’t run a little faster for a few seconds.
I play cleric and i pay the goddess statue so i don’t need to run across maps lol.
Stamina pills and stamina boosting equipment can make that pool last for a very long time - trust me. Also, when hunting a boss that dies in about 10 seconds, those 10 seconds obviously matter, especially when you have to wait up to 12 hours for it to spawn again. This is an argument coming from experience. Also, as of right now, swordsmen classes are arguably the best in the game, for a variety of reasons.
If you are really concerned about swordsman having an unfair advantage in boss hunting:
- equip a pair of Wind Runners (http://www.tosbase.com/database/items/514101/)
- maybe a Galatunis Bow if you are an archer (http://www.tosbase.com/database/items/163107/)
- pop a Basic Movement Increase Potion (http://www.tosbase.com/database/items/640103/).
I am sure you could find more +Movement Speed gears if you looked. You might* run faster than the 98% of swordsman who don’t understand the concept of situational gear-swapping.
*Disclaimer: I do not actually know how fast “+11” movement speed is, and how it compares to sprint.
Base movement speed is 30, so that’s around a 1/3 increase. You’d probably be around the same speed, or maybe a little slower than a swordman without any of these things. However, it takes a decent amount of time and boss hunting to reach that point. Also movement speed potions aren’t sold by NPCs anymore. However, they too can do all of this.
The main point isn’t boss hunting, though, it’s just all around movement speed. Due to all the stamina crystals and pills you can find when running across a map, you’re going save an incredible amount of time in the long run by playing a swordsman. There’s a lot of running back and forth involved in this game. You can literally run faster than anyone else in a town, with no downside.
I forgot hitting things with a sharp stick by mashing that auto attack button makes the most interesting classes to play.
It is good to know that base movement speed is 30, that puts things into better perspective. I kind of wish things like movement speed increase were just expressed as percentages.
I think mounted classes will save the most time in the long run though. You can literally run faster than anyone else anywhere, with no downside (you don’t drain stamina like sprinters do - except that you are limited to even less classes than just the Swordsman branch).
This makes me wonder though, is it possible for Swordsman classes to sprint while mounted? To me that seems like it would be movement speed increase overkill.
Wow, a fantasy based mmorpg where chibi looking characters cast magic and have limitless arrows in a land forsaken by the goddesses is unrealistic? Really?
Also to add a suggestion, you could give the dash to everyone but only let swordies use it in pvp. I’m fine with the system as it is now, just throwing this out there.
I get what your saying but that would just cause more bitching then not letting them have dash in the first place.
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I’ll say it again, I’m fine with the system as it is now, I was just suggesting an alternative. A gap closer for swordies is important
My thought: Why the roundabout solution? Just straight out say “the current move speed feels too slow, buff please”
“but stamina irrelevant”
And will still remains irrelevant so long as tree root crystal are aplenty. Your suggestion, the speed increase aside, only make other classes require knowing where the crystals are and not just swordsman.
Besides, have you ever run out of stamina, be it as swordsman or any class who just happened to run for so long (like during a boss fight)? Any advantage you might’ve gotten from sprinting faster than other classes is completely negated if you ever drop to that 0, more so if there’s no crystal nearby to refill it.
Also, with increased movement speed overall, it’s easier to dodge boss’s AoE, so the dev would have to rebalance them based on that too.
Well, obviously, but sprinting gives the entire tree and advantage. Also, cataphract is the only class that gets a mounted movespeed bonus (it’s in the swordsman tree, so even among mounted classes, swordsmen are still the fastest [it’s incredibly annoying in PvP, but that’s another discussion]). You cannot sprint while mounted, though, but like I said, cataphract / trot is incredibly fast and overcompensates for the lack of a mounted sprint.
@rofldat Stamina crystals randomly spawn just like any other mob on the map. Also, no one seems to realize that stamina pills are a thing.
While the boss thing is somewhat true, it’s kind of a moot point after the bosses start to require an Oracle. It’s kind of arbitrary if you move faster if can’t see the boss attacks. Although you’d be able to move faster out of the way when you have an Oracle, it’s not like you shouldn’t be able to do that anyway - sprinting or not. Besides, the stamina system would actually make using sprint to avoid attacks more of a liability, as if you accidentally run out when you’re trying to dodge a boss attack, you’d actually be doing more harm to yourself than you would just moving normally (you’d move at a rate where you definitely couldn’t dodge the attack).
Melee attackers would never reach ranged DPS if everyone had a dash move.
Sprint + Swift Step = rip swordies lul
No, the crystals have certain spots they can spawn on, so long as nobody else took them you can reliably finds them in the same area. (Personal experience of being able to dash back n forth across half Mine F3 to kill Vubbe Fighter)
Same thing with mobs, this is easier to observe on things with low spawn count like Glizardon in Cathedral B1.
Even without oracle, the bosses will still have animations. With faster speed you can react to seeing an AoE coming and get out of the way faster.
Also, people already can run out of stamina while fighting bosses even without sprinting (usually wiz/archer trying to keep the boss at range)
I mean, if you want to get technical, crystals have spawn areas, but there are many across the entire map, all of which have a range in which the crystal can spawn (however, it’s no larger than a screen’s worth of space). It’s not like a special mob like a Glizardon (which have hard spawns / a very low range and only a few spawn areas) so it’s essentially random / widespread. Also, just like any mob, there will be more spawned if there’s plenty of people on the map.
Your boss fight argument doesn’t really prove my point to be an issue, as anyone worth their salt can run out the way of a directed attack if they see the right animation. If you rely on sprinting to dodge all attacks, you’re going to possibly run out of stam and get hit when you could have easily dodged (which I was discussing earlier). The mapwide spread AoE attacks many bosses have will be a fairly arbitrary matter when it comes to sprinting, as due to the fact that if you’re running blind (without an Oracle), you might be running INTO an attack (you can obviously still do this without sprint).
Once again, the issue is overall map travel and a general quality of life advantage.
Also, @Spaghetti that wouldn’t be an issue, and you’d be burning up so much stam if you tried doing that. Honestly, you’d be attacking slower, as the startup time for a sprint based movement is two key strokes, while a regular one is (obviously) just one. Swift step only lets you end your attack animation quicker while moving, and still requires you to move / still slows you down when you attack.
I’m pretty sure it’s far far smaller than a screen size, in fact I’m almost certain some crystal have exact spawn point (like the one right in front of Vubbe village to the east of Miner’s Village)
And for sprinting out, I meant more of the omni-directional AoE where you DO need to get out of range. (But I guess without Oracle I’ll forever be blind! It’s not like I can learn from experience after taking a hit from an AoE to recognize its starting animation or anything!)
Even sprinting vs running to avoid a directional attack there’s still benefit to sprint - time. Reaching a safe spot faster will means more time for you to hit the boss before its next attack.
I’d like to think anyone worth their salt knows how valuable that time is.
Quality of life advantage - how about that Wiz/Archer have range attack? Or Cleric being able to heal (usually 2 sets of heal being able to top off even Plate-wearing cleric? How about we make Wizards/Archer only able to melee so you don’t have ‘quality of life advantage’ over Swordsman?
Or the reverse, let’s give Swordsman the option to use bow and Cleric to use staff, so they have access to range attack too!
While we’re at it, let’s give everyone some form of self-heal! GW2 did it afterall!
/sarcasm
There are plenty of bosses that use attacks creating many small AoEs all across the map, of which don’t really seem to have a target / are truly random. And yes, that time would be precious, but honestly that would add the mechanic of stamina management to every class, of which, outside of the swordsman tree, only touches Monk. You kind of just highlighted how much more interesting it would make the game.
If they’re going to rework it so it actually has an impact on every class in its own way, they’re going to have to come up with a bunch of new attacks for higher rank classes (of which doesn’t seem to be the route they’re looking for, as most high rank classes seem to be non-combat roles, or more specific complementary roles), or rework the resource requirements for older skills. Either that, or do something like @ArecArws was saying and give each class tree its own stamina sink (of which opens up an entirely new can of worms).
Also, the splash attribute says a hello to you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you.
Edit: Actually I think ArecArws idea is probably the best / would keep things the most unique. We just need a way to make the stamina system relevant for everyone. However, I still view sprint as providing swordsmen with unfair movement advantage with their being no alternatives available. Everyone crying about swordsmen being underpowered will be incredibly surprised to play the tree in the next beta, as they’re honestly the strongest when it comes to the higher ranks.
wow this thread boomed while I was out. Cool, I was able to make this place at least lively again today.
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