Tree of Savior Forum

Consider giving all classes the ability to dash (making Stamina Points relevant)

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#1

The ability used by the Swordsmen in this game, at the cost of the SP gauge, is (of my knowledge) the only dash in the game. This was brought up in another thread, where we discussed the relevance of the SP gauge to all players. During my playing I didn’t even realize my character used any SP during walking at all, a time where my SP got low simply never occurred. The point had been raised that the Swordsman classes are the only ones who would worry about such a thing while dashing, and I asked why the Swordsman class is the only one to have this feature. Someone enlightened me of one capability:

I have been thinking about this, and I have had an idea that I think might work out for both sides. We could add a function to the Swordsman’s dash, purely for gap closing. A strong initial burst of speed (at least 200%) over one second to over take your opponent’s gap would qualify as a gap closer over short distance, and would be what divides the swordsman’s dash to the theoretical dash we could give to the other classes.

As for people abusing it to travel (think of Ocarina of Time’s Roll for example) I don’t think it would be a substantial enough bonus to be worth the risk of wrist injuries gained from mashing the forward button to abuse the initial speed. It would only occur over a short period of time and would be a tiny burst used purely for gap closing. Even if someone finds a way to ignore that, we could add a triple stamina usage for the first second, further devaluing the abuse.

I’d like to think this would help us with the long walks from a guardian statue when we have to return to a town. The current pace of the walking feels quite slow. It might help the game feel more energetic, especially because we would have to watch out for Crystals and input the running command while moving. In other words, I think giving a dash to all characters would benefit the flow of gameplay.

Thoughts?

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Tree Root Crystal [ The most annoying of all Monsters ]
#2

u need that kind of long sprint as a swordman for pvp, without it, evry meleebuild would instantly get outkited from ranged classes, making the whole meleeclass useless as fk, yes its used for faster traveling, does that rly hurt anyone?? if u partyplay u’ll have to wait for your party to arrive anyways, also there is a lot of ports in the game… a change of the dash atm would just kill any chances of pvp for melees, or how are u gonna catch up on rangedclasses with stuns, knockbacks, roots, snares, slows etc.

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#3

you can’t dash while attacking/charging a skill, and as we already went over, the dash for melee classes would have a sufficient gap-closer. It would change nothing.

What we’re doing by giving all classes a speed boost is the ability to dash when necessary (can be a good mechanic for boss fights). As I understand from your point of view, that would put everyone on the same level. The swordsman’s dash, however, would have the initial speed burst, making it still quite a good gap closer. It is that initial burst that would put them still in the same place they are now.

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#4

u dont need to attack while dashing, its enough to dash inbetween said CC cooldowns and melees would never catch up to a ranged class, even if the CC skills would only do 1dmg per hit, u could bscly kite a melee for hrs if u can sustain your skillcosts, even with your 200% “short boost” what if u get stunned/rooted/snared while doing that? would there be a cooldown for reuse? would there be tripple costs? so if that happens to u, u would be bscly out of SP if that happens 3 times to u? there is a reason why only swordsmen have the dash and its just a balancething

#5

Good, cause I just said you can’t. It’s not possible for an archer to dash, then start casting a CC on you. If you want to try dashing away against a Swordsman from close distance with this kind of gap closer, you’re SOL unless they have poor reflexes.

[quote=“ggfcmatze, post:4, topic:39037”]
what if u get stunned/rooted/snared while doing that?
[/quote] The cool down for those skills is longer than the duration of the (hard) CC you are talking about. It is enough time for you to regain the gap easily. They eat up their Mana trying to fend off a swordsman who has the better ability to run, and in a PvP situation they also may run into another enemy. It’s not a good move for the person fleeing.

If we want to talk more about balancing against hard CC, this change will benefit the Swordsmen even MORE when the enemy attempts this, provided they get out before they die (which would be the same thing as it is right now)

1 Like
#6

the suggestion u made was made on the korean forums already and the devs didnt like it, they like the balance the current system has and running with it for 3 1/2 closed betas now, they r not intending to change that whatsoever, believe it or not, giving evry class a dash would cause total imbalance… i cant see why u would want to change this so bad even tho the devs like the way it works atm, just because u arrive at vertain points 1min later than others?

#7

I didn’t know this. Source?

[quote=“ggfcmatze, post:6, topic:39037”]
believe it or not, giving evry class a dash would cause total imbalance…
[/quote] Believe it or not, that hasn’t been put to test yet, so you can’t prove it without theory. My theory holds up.

[quote=“ggfcmatze, post:6, topic:39037”]
i cant see why u would want to change this so bad
[/quote]I’m not trying very hard actually. It’s just a theory, I even asked people for their thoughts. I have plenty of reasons why I wouldn’t want this in the game, but they don’t outweigh the desire to discuss it from the point of view of someone who does.

[quote=“ggfcmatze, post:6, topic:39037”]
devs like the way it works atm
[/quote] Is that so? Then maybe we will find a way to convince them that they don’t like it nearly as much as they thought. That’s the point of a proposal.

1 Like
#8

FTFY

Consider removing swordsman class

#9

Mages and Archers have range advantage and Clerics have safety zone on 20 sec CD there no need for them to dash for safety.

Archers have built in Tab Targeting, Magic attack from cleric and wizards cannot be block or evaded.

Rogues and Monks(most popular classes for pvp) are going to have a field day as giving them dash would be buffing them even more.

3 Likes
#10

let swordsman get the dash alone i kinda understand it. But i would love to see jumping cost 2 stamina that would add a tactical note too boss fights and pvp. No more perma jumping

6 Likes
#11

i think they meant the dash was to dash away from bosses or OP mobs when your underleveled with no range in your pt or some sort of situations~

from another thread, like phycho skill swap where u swap or teleport could be changed to using stamina with a bit of mana instead of fully mana~ there are other skills which could make use of stamina cause there are some logics/common sense thinking behind it~

e.g: 1-2 stamina for each swap skill or using after a specfic number of uses, it decreases by 3-5 etc.~ might make the game more challenging for all classes~ (JUST AN OPINION ON THIS THREAD)

#12

Even if you cant attack while dashing if you move the same speed as the swordsman you can just run till your cc cds are back up.

I get that you want travel convenience but there are warp statues for that.

@neconis1990 your idea i like

#13

Everyone could benefit from a dash for traveling, just make swordsman’s dash a bit faster if there are balance issues in PvP.

#14

a bit faster would not work, it had to be double the speed, which means u’ll be faster at travelling again … the only pro for that would be that other classes would be faster overall but same diffrence compared to swordsmen… which would be okay, anything lower than double speed would be balanceproblems again, the gap inbetween dashspeed would need to be arround the speed diffrence that nondashclasses have to swordsmen atm

#15

And if you double the swordsman speed then they’ll cry about why there dash isn’t that fast. This topic and change is a trap x.x.

#16

exactly… that’s why i said this won’t work at all… its either leave it AS IS or give swordsmen double the speed

obsvly. looking at the “problem” from the devs point of view, who consideres AS IS balanced… and not a problem at all

#17

Cant even double the speed because at that point then cast times need to be faster from the accelerated game play this would be hell to change and re balance.

I don’t think there is a way to make this work.

#18

not only casttimes, mobs would have to move double the speed also which brings the problem that not dashing is even WORSE than before… as u can see this only brings problems :stuck_out_tongue:

#19

I already said they would get double the speed for about a second. This would perform as the gap closer you already have.

[quote=“thebloodyaugust, post:12, topic:39037”]
Even if you cant attack while dashing if you move the same speed as the swordsman you can just run till your cc cds are back up.
[/quote] I don’t think you understand either. You can’t move while you’re casting. It will take more than a second to get the hard CC off, and in that time the Swordsman will have caught up to you because of the dash’s initial gap closer already putting them close to you when you stop. It wont even take a quarter of a second for them to reach you, since you’re moving at the same speed and the gap closer puts them right on your tail for when you stop. You understand that right? If two things move at the same speed, they can’t gain distance on each other if they are taking the same route. It’s science. Since the gap closer moves slightly faster than the opponents dash, there is an advantage for the duration of the gap closer.

[quote=“ggfcmatze, post:18, topic:39037”]
mobs would have to move double the speed
[/quote] in case you haven’t noticed, they’re already ridiculously slow. You can out kite them with the walking your archer does while attacking* (which is roughly 50% slower)
*edit: oops

[quote=“thebloodyaugust, post:17, topic:39037”]
Cant even double the speed because at that point then cast times need to be faster from the accelerated game play this would be hell to change and re balance.
[/quote] What? Why? You’re already saying the cast time is too fast and that Swordsman classes will be eaten up by CC after being kited (false). Choose one stance or the other.

Devil’s Advocate:
If you’re curious as to why I said I don’t want this to be implemented,

  1. I had already come to the conclusion that the initial speed burst would be hard to perform precise dashes with. Anything with an acceleration is hard to manage precise movement with. It would require a switch on the skill page so you could turn it off or on, depending on the circumstances. This would clutter the UI and probably be left unnoticed/forgotten by most.
  2. There are plenty of goddess statues around that you can warp to, so I don’t think it’s entirely necessary to have a cool dash, but it would still provide a cool gimmick for the boss designers to manipulate for future boss AI.
  3. I already gave this a very obvious hole, and if you read it you could have shut me down by telling me it would be very hard to get around people using MACROS to abuse the initial speed boost after 1s. Adding a cool down to this as a response to that would disable the Swordsman’s gap closer, and that’s not a good thing. There’s no way to balance it adequately.

In any case I’m surprised there weren’t more people coming out for this helpful feature. I realize the negative points, but it’s not interesting to talk about things if you’re the only one who is entertaining the idea. I’m done here I guess.

#20

Wow your ridiculous.

  1. not all cc’s have cast times
  2. i never said casting was 2 fast i said this sprinting change would be a detriment to casters and force a entire re balance
  3. “choose one stance” if you read our posts we were discussing ways to try and make your idea work and over and over again we came to the conclusion its a crap change for various reasons.