Tree of Savior Forum

Class/Rank resets (that people can agree on)

Suggestions Game
#1

Yes I am making a new topic about this because it is a suggestion and because on other topics people don’t read the whole class reset description and just freak out.
I am making this so I can figure out how to cater to both people who are intially for and against.

The class/rank reset would work as following;(sort of)

  1. You wouldn’t be able to change from your ‘base’ tree (Cleric, Swordsman, Archer and Wizard).
  1. It would cost TP and free in case of major patch.
  2. It would have a long cooldown.
  3. Possibly, every char would have #X amount of resets to do. Meaning, the new choices still carry wheight. (not a big fan of this myself but might work)
  4. Possibly, one reset potion = one rank. Meaning that the more you’d wanna fix, the more money you’d have to throw on it. Say you were class level 14 on Pyro and wanted to go Cryo instead, all class levels would revert back to 0 and you’d have to do the new class quest and work your way back up again.
  5. It would have certain class restrictions, such as not being able to change from a Templar or crafting classes.
  6. [Other suggestions!]

I believe this would be acceptable for people who are wary against the idea of class resets. I will edit this with other ideas if it’s still not good enough for people who can be swayed.

Edit; Or; (with similar restrictions)

Basically any idea that saves Time (more than a reroll that is) + Achievements + Premium stuff + Silver (sorted by priority) is welcome.

Reasons why we need class resets in ToS;

  1. This game has 280 levels right now and it’s still under development. That is hundreds of hours many people don’t wanna redo. Imagine how it will feel when it has 800 levels (which I’ve read is planned).
  2. Many achievements don’t carry through to other characters, it would really suck to reroll and lose all that
  3. Skills descriptions are pretty muddy and can make a class/skill sound better than it is and result in an unejoyable build.
  4. Patches can make and break builds and fixes can take a long time to make a build work again, if ever.
  5. Someone who has a main char that they spend every hour and money on would most likely feel very discouraged to continue ToS if for any reason their build don’t work for them anymore. Some people simply don’t have alts and don’t want them!
  6. Mistakes happen, why not be able to fix them for a few bucks?

Essentially, many players would simply just quit the game. I don’t have statistics on how many of course but it’s not unthinkable that it is a big percent of the playerbase.

Big pros for a class reset;

  1. Income for the game, indirectly really good for all of us
  2. Maintaining a big player base, good for game’s income and again, us!
  3. Promotes experimenting, good for meta, and in turn good for this game longevity

Common arguments against class resets in general and why this suggestion have those in mind/counter-arguments;

  1. “Changing from a rod to sword would be weird”
    This wouldn’t be possible, see #1
  2. “It would be abuseable/unfair, people would change from easy PvE class to a harder one just to not have to grind”
    Since the new chosen class would end up in class level 0 they’d still have to do a fair share of grind and it would probably be a harder grind since they’d essentially lose a lot of utility/damage they’d normally have and need.
  3. “People would just change into whatevers good in the meta, no variety”
    First, the meta, in my opinon, shouldn’t be as narrow in the first place that there’s no variety. That is a problem on it’s own and should be fixed.
    Second, the same argument can be made for class resets. Many people plan their build from the beginning into whatever they think will work for a long time, play it safe if you will. Resulting in many similar builds! Having a class reset promotes experimenting and change which in turn is anti stagnancy!
    (Thanks @Levan, probably wouldn’t have thought of that myself)
    Third, the alternative without class resets would be to reroll, wasting tons of hours and achievements, play with a build you’re not enjoying anymore or simply go to another game. Optimal, I think not.
  4. “People can just reroll, it doesn’t take long time at all”
    We have vastly different opinions on this. There’s a lot of people who have put ~300h into this game and still is far from max level. To undo all that work would be extremely off putting for many, I am one of those people.
    Also, many achievements aren’t Team shared and many of them require a lot of time and effort that people don’t want to redo.
  5. “Just do your research before playing, that prevents any need for a class reset”
    In some cases, no matter how much you research your build might get ruined anyhow (a major patch, a mistake, a change of heart).
  6. “People would be able to play with class specific costumes that they normally couldn’t have!”
    Myeah no, obviously those costumes would only be equipable for someone with the right class. Pretty sure that’s already the case.

As you can see, I care about this a lot (and I have a lot of free time lol). Because I really like this game, but I also would stop playing if my fav char’s build got enjoyable because I pour all my soul on it, haha. However, I would definitely be inclined to spend some money to make it enjoyable again.
Oh and thanks @Levan, @Felipe_Collares and @joepjanson. I’ve read your suggestions on a thread and it made making this list so much easier!

@Staff_Julie, @STAFF_John, @STAFF_Ethan, @STAFF_Ethan, @STAFF_J, @STAFF_Ines. Anyone of you with feedback on this?

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Say Yes to job reset
Circle reset NEEDED for game to survive!
#2

Can’t like enough.

Since months ago i also try to say the same things about how a class reset could work, but still ppl come with the same counter arguments, even tho they were beaten to the pulp.

[quote=“thesstuss, post:1, topic:211355”]
"Just do your research before playing, that prevents any need for a class reset"In some cases, no matter how much you research your build might get ruined anyhow (a major patch, a mistake, a change of heart).
[/quote]I always point this out as well.

Even tho I played a lot on the KR test server, read a lot of feedback on this forum and watch YT videos, I am playing my 4th character in Klaipeda now…

Obviously i was not using the same builds i used before. I made changes based on what “should” work better and even thought i would be happy with the final build.
But getting to Rank 5 and it wasnt as fun to play as my older builds, which i am redoing now.

The problem is that i am burnt out from the early game, map completations and all. Leveling a lot slower than before, while some friends are 200+…

:confused:

#3

Oh I have the exact same problem. I can imagine maybe level two more characters (I have two chars I’m invested in atm) and then I am absolutely pooped!

#4

Here’s a list of valuable stuff you can’t transfer from your original character to a re-rolled character. Seeing the stuff you potentially have to lose is pretty discouraging for re-rollers if they already have them on their original character:

Silver
Cosmetics (Hair, costume, yup throw away 300+ TP like nothing!)
Any existing cash item in your inventory.
Event items (Stat Reset potions and Dungeon vouchers for example, if you haven’t used them yet)
High level status increasing gems
Monster gems
Cards
Armbands
Hidden Quests
0 potential equipment, most likely from overupgrading gear.
And as you said, achievements.

For now, transferring items from one character to another also loses item potential and uses up your token trade limit, and it would also require a token first to work - which means not everyone (especially free players) will be able to re-roll while keeping most of the stuff you earned. Although the potential reduction is removed for krTOS (not sure if it’ll arrive here in iToS though…)

About the class reset details, only one thing I’m doubtful with:

3.You would end up in a C1 class, so if you changed from Pyro C3 to Cryo, you’d be in Cryo C1.

Essentially this means you would get 2 free resets along with it, which is bad, not to mention complicated.

One circle reset item should just reset whatever rank you’ve selected.

Also another scenario, which should be important to detail. Let’s say you took the following circles for each rank:

R2 Cryo 1
R3 Psychokino 1
R4 Cryo 2
R5 Cryo 3
R6 Psychokino 2
R7 Warlock

and you decide to remove, let’s say Cryo 1, in order to get Psychokino 3. Nope, that is not possible, since you can’t take Psychokino 2 at Rank 2. So then you either have to reset R4 Cryo 2 or R5 Cryo 3, where Psychokino is available to get. Same issue goes to when you want to take a class only unlockable for a specific rank, then you must choose only one of the same rank or higher to reset if you still want to get it.

Most considerable cooldown is 1 month. 2~3 months is also viable, but it seems too long IMHO because raising another character should take about a month or two to get to midlevel~high level.

#5

I wouldn’t mind a way of class reset.

#6

This is a bit confusing imo. I didn’t rly understand the other topic tbh and why we called it “circle reset”…(the class reset is more okay) It should be actually rather a rank reset imo and I always imagined it as that.

But maybe what I’m talking about is not even “reset”? Because when I’m talking about a Rank reset it would mean you would completly lose that Rank with its class levels and you should work it back with whatever other class you choose. It wouldn’t be like a stat reset where you just reapply the points… that doesn’t make sense. Also I think you should do the advancement quest for your new class or circle.
Although you wouldn’t lose your base levels…and some other stuff so it would be still worth it.

On the other hand I stated that maybe only 1 rank reset would be too generous too and maybe it should be fix 2…but higher ranks would be more and more hard to get back to max class level so maybe it is ok with 1 dunno.

Also it could be calculated with class levels rather than rank and you would lose fix 15 or more class levels when you do this. If it makes sense dunno…I should think about it a bit more. XD Maybe that doesn’t matter that much on which class level would somebody decide to reset (delete?) that rank.

I’m not sure what you think about here…
I think if we talk like about the donation achievements of Pardoner (so class specific ones) that should reset anyway…unless you keep at least 1 circle of Pardoner.

#7

Ah yes, in depth that sounds complicated. I mostly just wanted to highlight that just because you can change class doesn’t mean there’s no grind/effort. Maybe just delete that and only have this one;

I also imagine that when you right click the reset potion or whatever, a class tree window opens up and you click on those you want to get rid of (how many you can click depends on how many potions you have) and when you’ve clicked those you can in another instance click the once you are able to have instead (again, how many you can click depends on how many potions you have). Then click ok, a little warning text saying you agree bla bla, done!

Actually I kind of mix circle and rank together, hence why I just say class because that’s what the ranks are pretty much anyway. But yeah, essentially class reset = rank reset![quote=“Ayalon, post:6, topic:211355”]
Also I think you should do the advancement quest for your new class or circle
[/quote]

Of course![quote=“Ayalon, post:6, topic:211355”]
I think if we talk like about the donation achievements of Pardoner (so class specific ones) that should reset anyway…unless you keep at least 1 circle of Pardoner.
[/quote]

Yeah class specific ones should get ereased!

#8

To add, I would remove any measure of reducing class levels or base levels as penalty.

Main reason is used exp cards from quests. Removing exp gained from those can be taxing. Also the possibility of getting stuck in a grind wall.

Partial reason is due to the vagueness of it. What if you had rank 6 R7 but you changed one of your earlier circles, would you be leveling two class levels then? Or one at a time? Or whatever.

#9

Hmm but then a big reason why’d this work would be removed, since then people could choose easy PvE class and then switch to what they really want, like class that is hard to solo/PvE with.

I get your reasoning but you’d have to have something to make it not abuseable like that and the only way to do that, as I see it, would be that you have to redo the rank you changed.

I imagine that, for example, if you were Wizard > Pyro C2 > Linker C2, meaning you’d be leveling your Linker currently. The moment you change your Pyro C2 to say Cryo C1, the C2 Linker you were currently leveling will maybe disappear, leaving you with Pyro C1 > Cryo C1 > Linker C1 (finished Linker C1 that is and you’d start leveling the Cryo instead)? Or maybe the potion would only work if you were class level 0/15 in your current rank?
That doesn’t sound optimal but it isn’t abuseable at least.

I’m kinda tired so maybe I misunderstood you completely.

#10

@thesstuss I see you changed that part so it doesn’t rly matter now but I actually think I wasn’t that clear about those circle resets you mentioned. My problem was that that part was an actual circle reset… X)

I mean while it seemed you let those who have only 1 circle in a class lose only that circle(rank)…so you were generous with them imo… you actually were quite harsh with those who maybe had 3 circles with a class because you made them lose all of that what was much more work…X)

If we would want to punish ppl and set that you lose fix 2 ranks and you have to work that back…that one affects everyone because circles are ranks too. (and that’s why it matters how we call it I just forgot to clear the rest part)

I don’t imagine it like this and I actually don’t agree with this.

I think class(rank) resets should only reset your last rank you have or fixly more but counted from the highest if we want some punishment.

With how I would do it… losing 2 ranks rather than 1 would be a punishment.

This is actually a valid problem that has to be solved. But no… I still wouldn’t allow of reseting lower classes unless you would do that much resets from the highest to the lower you want that you would lose the higher ranks too… but also that isn’t necessarily a good idea.

#11

Which is why the 1 month cooldown should prevent it from being abused. Everyone’s main concern is that people can switch from a support build to another. Well, maybe let them, but they’ll have to wait for complete 6 months to completely change their character’s build and pay for 6 reset potions first. I would commend anyone to have the patience to wait that long to be able to change their build, yet you see in 6 months time you can easily cap one or two characters into that ideal build you waited to change into already.

Also let’s not forget stat reset potions won’t be sold in the future, making changing from support to DPS builds impossible already.

It’s punishment enough to have to pay TP to buy one, but resetting class levels is an iffy matter that depends solely on the current progression of a character. I think it’s safer just to retain any class levels upon changing. It also doesn’t complicate things for the developer as well.

#12

I don’t personally have anything against it being like that but I can imagine that people who aren’t fans of class resets might dislike it if the reset doesn’t mean some form of effort you know? I’ll let this sink in a litte more before I edit!

Ahhh, it won’t??

#13

Wouldn’t a Character Reset feature make more sense than this though?

-simply back to Rank 1, Level 1/1
-keep items/equip/silver/achievements/finished quests/worldmap/exploration

but at the same time make it a lot faster to reach whatever rank you were before reset.

Not sure about how specifically though. Just giving you all the EXP-cards for any finished quest back sounds OP.
While giving you a 400% EXP boost until your reach your old Rank/Level doesn’t sound optimal either… any ideas?

3 Likes
Say Yes to job reset
#14

This would be a lot simpler really, however it would still be pretty tedious despite a EXP boost since that could mean a massive grind (or at least 'til you reach your first dungeon). But then again we don’t want it to be too easy either so this could work really well!

#15

I don’t know but personally I would like that too. I think a little exp boost(that also compensates for the lack of quests) would be nice just the exact amount of it is questionable.

#16

Rolling back character and class levels, and even circle levels (despite the fact that the item should only reset one circle at the time…) are risky and can mess up a character’s natural progression through the game. While this is not as much as a big issue at 210+, it is for around 171~210, or 140 below. This is because there are no known established grinding areas at those level ranges, unless people create one. But having to grind through difficult monsters for a whole 15 class levels alone because it’s not your natural level range where people party up to grind is very difficult and it may make further progress impossible.

And I’m going to go ahead and talk about development. By slapping multiple, unneeded restrictions aside from the simple cooldowns, it creates more work for developers that would think of implementing it. In other words, it’s not very realistic and just complicating things for developers further.

I see these kind of resets that rollback character/class levels would fit more should it be FREE and not require TP. But if it costs TP on top of level rollbacks, it looks more like a punishment than a reward. And if you want that to sell, you would prefer it to look more like a reward. Otherwise people will just completely avoid buying it, and we’ll be back to square one.

Let’s not forget that TP is real life money here. And if anything, circle resets of any form would be likely expensive.

#17

you forgot that class levels are not tied to base character levels in any way. There is no point in rolling base levels back during class circle roll back. That also means that you’ll be able to regain class levels faster due to higher exp from higher level monsters.

#18

People are suggesting to couple this where you can only reset latest rank, rolling back your character level and/or class level, btw. This is what I’m trying to address. And if you can only rollback your latest rank (which is extremely restrictive and just destroys the point of a circle reset, mind you) you will still be fighting monsters at your level, and without any quests to hasten the pace.

People also want to couple that with C3~C1 reset. I don’t even know why Ayalon argued about this one, if it resets, let’s say, C3 Cryomancer for example, to C1 Cryomancer, then you have to earn back class levels, you’ll have the benefit to repick two more circles from that 2 circles you lost. I mean, that’s how it would logically work at least.

Here’s my 2 cents on the matter regarding complicated and simply taxing punishments more than a regular cooldown and a high TP cost would give - it is pointless. It does nothing but drive away people from using them, even people who want to experiment classes.

Why are people so concerned about wanting people to grind levels back? Rolling back any levels complicates the balance and integrity of character progression so badly and it complicates things for the developers. Key word here is: complicate. When things can be done more simpler while giving players necessary time-gated restrictions to use them again, what would be the point of those kind of features? It misses the whole point.

Also as I say again, paying TP is punishment enough. Let’s not rollback base levels & class levels or give ridiculous restrictions or effects like being able to only reset the latest circle or resetting multiple circles at once.

#19

I really do agree with you. But the absolute biggest argument against a class reset is the abuseability and the cookie cutter build things. If we are to make it so that a reset is popular, or at least not hated, by the people against it we need to try and figure out how to counter that somehow.

I definitely don’t think we should only be able to reset the latest circle, as you said, it makes the whole idea useless.

And I really don’t like the idea of a class reset inducing some kind of hard quest you have to do to gain the effects, that is not something the developers would implement because it is only to please certain people against it and would not be worth to develop simply.

#20

I support class reset!
\O/