Tree of Savior Forum

Circle reset NEEDED for game to survive!

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#207

Common sense or not, that is not a valid reason to make “claims” (like “lodge xp system is NOT for rerolling”) for the company.

Uhh, dude, hypocrisy.

The context of this post you made is that, why implement a circle reset system that is contradictory to the lodge system that you claim just by using the company’s “point of view”. Really now, you claim you know the point of view of IMC for the lodge system? Now I ask you, are you some IMC employee then?

Hypocrisy alert.

Wow. You do not even know what happens (with lodge xp) when you delete a character yet you make these claims of what it is and is not for. That’s like that other guy debating the buff cap without knowing which buffs do and don’t contribute to it. What was that fallacy again? Appeal to authority?

And do you know what they do? Why do you assume it’s for re-rolling and being such a hypocrite as well?

I know multiple games that provide these “multiple character” bonuses, it’s a common trend among MMO’s, and this one can’t be any different from the rest. Like the rest, when you delete a character, you will lose the benefits off of them and the bonuses will be reduced. Now if you want to disprove this, I dare you to delete your main character now and see if it gets reduced, because as of now you have nothing to prove it besides your word.

I at least have proof through the existence of these similar account bonuses based on the number and progress of characters within the same account, and yes, as I repeat, you lose benefits when you delete them on those games. IMC’s system can’t be any different. And before you whine and flaunt your fallacies, I’m pretty sure we’ve agreed here that we’re both doing the same thing right?

Well thank you for helping to disprove this

Ah, the wonders of English, where a bit of a mess on sentence construction can easily change a statement altogether. But if you want clarification, it can and cannot be, and I’m only assuming myself that it cannot just be for re-rolling, unlike what you’re assuming.

Also you forgot half my post, get on to “nitpicking” there, you seem to have no clue what to say about the other stuff I had posted and are just conceding to it.

Sorry for making you mad, it’s getting really apparent from your succeeding posts, it’s kinda funny because I didn’t even think we were fighting or something. I don’t really mean to, but if you feel so offended on being corrected, I apologize. :wink:

#208

You dont have a pet?
A pet lv counts as one of your character’s lv.
So a lv220 character + a lv200 pet = 88400 exp already. That like ~lv8-9?

#209

I don’t have a pet. But take note that with a pet you’ve already filled another character slot. That means if I got a pet like that now and end up with around level 10~12 lodge, I’d maybe get 10~12% exp bonus max. It seems significant at first but it’s not noteworthy enough to consider as a huge boost to make leveling a re-rolled character easier. And if you delete the character you wish to remake and end up reducing lodge exp, then there’s really no point of saying how it could be a re-rolling system at all.

#210

Im actually wondering if you could level multiple pets one after the other. If thats the case you can easily get >30% bonus xp with one slot open :slight_smile:

#211

Hmm, possibly. I’m not even sure if you can get two pets at the same time.

I guess the downside would be that I’d only be able to create one alternative character. I would honestly want to try all classes. But if we can buy more additional character slots this sounds like it could work pretty well.

#212

Yea its 30TP for the first one, idk about ones after that. The first one at least is very cheap :>

#213

Ok. How be when i descrimination if i dint heave a popular build ? I donw want a rerol and lvling new chara, but cant play because heave a unpopular build and difficult to find a group

#214

1 ) - To those that are complaining about “it being 2016, lots of other mmos have some kind of reset”. This isn’t any of those “other” mmos, why turn it into a generic mmo. If you want to play a game that lets you reset your builds / skills / stats then go play one that allows that.

2 ) - Actions have consequence, learn to deal with it ! Get your builds right or just find a work around. EG - “too much STR as an Archer class and not enough DEX. Wear moe DEX gear. Don’t like that option, go balls deep and get full STR. Don’t like that option remake” Don’t be lazy.

3 ) - IF / When they nerf a class or change a skill, I am sure they will compensate you some how. It might be a circle reset or a skill reset, until then don’t get your knickers in a knot.

4 ) - Stop with the “Do this or your game will die” “Do that or everyone will leave this game” No one likes a boy / girl that cries wolf ! You are better off with titles such as " Here are some changes that will help this commuity "

#215
  1. Being stubborn to change because you were successful with something 10 years ago is asking for trouble. FFXIV 1.0 ended up being a major disaster because of that kind of mentality.
    Most of us players have experienced a lot of other mmorpgs and can tell the difference between a good and bad system. It’s not like 10 years ago where we didn’t know any better.
    RMT have gotten more smarter and ruthless in 10 years as well. RMT and bots have alreadly exploited the game so hard due to the lack of simple standards present in other games. Such standards are not limited to -
    RMT megaphone advertising, the lack of the option to report bots on launch and a system that hurts real players more than rmt called the marketplace.
    Finally, telling your potential customers to “go play one (another game) that allows that.” is in other words saying “Go away, we don’t want you to buy our product”, which is a no-no for any buisiness.
  2. I work full time, I prefer to pay for certain things since I don’t have the time of day. Don’t assume everyone is lazy.
  3. I’d like that.
  4. I don’t think the game will die any time soon, but it would lose large amount of players quicker than it should. So many people have been giving tos poor reviews in steam for valid reasons.
    If the trend keeps up, the developers would be forced to look for solutions to nickel and dime players as quick as possible.
    I can think of quite a number of korean games that have alreadly done that, Trickster Online, Elsword, Dragons Nest and Archeage.
    The people who currently say that this game is pay to win haven’t seen anything until they’ved played at least one of those.
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#216

meh, that argument is weak. They could easily implement no reset by default and free resets for major changes. Worked fine for Ragnarok.

#217

So like pso2 then? Everyone hated that.

#218

Their resets are limited to players online within a set timeframe, you can make it to apply to all existing character. That way you dont alienate players who put thoughts into their builds and not penalizing them because of the Devs fault.

#219

They could set the login requirements as steep as almost no-lifing the game, or they could set the minimum time to just a few hours. I expect the worst case scenario in most situations.

#220

Eh, you guys really love to repeat the same arguments against circle reset don’t you?

  1. Same goes to people who just love to say “Oh this is like oldschoolRO / decision based game, just re-roll if you make a mistake” as if everyone has all the time in the world. Even older MMO’s have some sort of reset system in mind when the skill customization system is vast and it would be so easy to make a mistake, except in this case it’s the massive amount of classes that can lead to it. And funnily some of these “Generic MMO’s” you say that have reset systems are most likely even more successful than Tree of Savior right now.

  2. “Deal with it, yada yada” like a broken record. You’re even comparing stats when that’s not what people are complaining about, it’s the classes. As usual, people arguing about circle reset hasn’t seen the dangers of end game yet where only certain builds are given mercy by the balance in endgame content. Level up more and you’ll understand. And as I said time and time again, there is no way to find a clear cut explanation or build that works endgame since most of the tests so far are behind a language wall (krTOS) or outdated (CBT -> OBT is vastly different). And although some guides do provide a point, why would something require hours and hours of research just to make yourself a build? It took me a couple of hours to perfect my build and even then I kept learning something new as I played the game and adjusted my build accordingly then. I can only imagine if I had previously thought due to outdated or conflicting information to “get so-so c1 class, it’s great” and push on with it, only to find a different result altogether.

  3. I’m sure that will happen.

  4. Warranted, it is indeed exaggerated to say that having no circle resets will mean the end for the game. But if you have a bunch of people quitting early on because they’re not the same people as these anti-circle rest people who are masochistic enough to love torturing themselves by leveling/grinding all the way back to their previous levels, it’ll do the game more harm than good. How about the company just milks them through a TP store reset option then? What bad would that thing do to any existing players anyway, “oh yada yada, I had a perfect build, so unfair” when it doesn’t really give anything else besides a meager reset for a simple mistake.

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#221

The thing is class building is the main part of this game. They wouldn’t implement a feature to bypass that. Also resets would kill class diversity.

If people don’t want to play because of no circle resets then they aren’t the target audience and can go play other more casual games.

More hardcore gamers that enjoy risk in their decisions would have no place to go. Casual player already have enough games and we need something to play too.

I did make a suggestion earlier in this post that might work though. If they add class resets at will I would probably lose interest in this game.

1 Like
#222

Except I’m not the one making claims. I’m simply stating what something does.

I said “a company”, not IMC. I’ve actually worked in a software development company and that issue comes up a lot. There’s also a reason why I posed it as a question and not a statement. Also notice I used the word “something” instead of “circle reset” and “lodge system”.

Oh, you mean this?

or

Where here does it say me stating what the lodge xp system is and isn’t for? All I said was:

  • circle reset “is in direct conflict with the lodge xp system”
  • we can have lv 50 lodges

Except I’ve stayed very “safe” by not making any claims of what something is and isn’t for. That would be you.

As for the “other half”, they are anecdotal and can’t be “debated”. I’m sticking to debating you claiming what the lodge xp system is and isn’t for.

#223

Yes but blame IMC for creating an endgame where only some builds matter, everything else is screwed. They themselves killed class diversity by balancing endgame content around cookie cutter builds or very specific strategies.

There is no such thing as target audience for MMO’s, you would want as many customers as possible by bringing appeal through its gameplay mechanics, content, etc. If you target only hardcore players who don’t spend a dime and just earn all their money through hard work and grinding, where would this company’s profit go in this F2P setting?

Casual players are even the most likely people who would pay for something than hardcore players would. This is because the cash shop should really only be for people who wish to save time and have money to spare (see: Resurrection Stone, Warp Portal Scrolls, and Repair kits being sold in the shop, those are there for these “casual players” you speak of) subscriptions like Tokens that make life easier, or for general cosmetics.

Hardcore players would instead use the spare time they have and earn money through various means like farming and boss hunting, having no need to buy from the cash shop at all besides possibly cosmetics. Tokens can be bought from other players as well, and if casual players need some quick money they can simply sell their tokens to others as well.

And I think it’s really sad that a class reset system that would most likely be controlled and have multiple repurcussions or high costs would make you lose interest in a game with wonderful artwork, a particularly deep lore, unique gameplay elements and a diverse class system.

Gee, it’s like “omg, circle reset, it’s the end of the game for me if that happens because I won’t be able to use it!”. You mimic the same people who overreact to the existence of a reset that actually exists in almost all MMORPG’s out there. I don’t even see why a circle reset would affect you as individual either, in fact at least with its existence you can also try out unique builds and whatnot then safely return after without completely wasting your investment into your character.

#224

Really? Wow. I mean, seriously, you’re that up in your head that you don’t know you’re making claims by trying to tell me that the lodge system is made for re-rolling? Again the hypocrisy is off the charts. As you claim, I claim as well.

And what company are we talking about? IMC, because they developed this game. And yes, I can tell the difference between publishers and developers.

Also, let’s go over the quote again:

Based on a company’s POV, why create something that is in direct conflict with something you already have?

Let’s go through the sentence construction. Here’s your question:

why create something that is in direct conflict with something you already have?

I don’t see where you asked whether or not that is the company’s PoV, instead you simply stated that it is the company’s PoV. Your question aims to seek answers about Circle reset being contradictory to lodge system, NOT that you’re asking about whether or not it is a company’s PoV for a lodge system to be something that serves purpose as a re-rolling system.

Again with the hypocrisy. By stating that what the lodge exp system is without even asking about its true purpose, you are making claims yourself. If your only argument for this matter is that I shouldn’t make claims while you are allowed to, then this isn’t an argument at all. It’s a really just a poor attempt of yours to make face.

Very safe? You clearly decided that the lodge system is strictly for re-rolling by telling that quote. Let me repeat it for ya.

Based on a company’s POV, why create something that is in direct conflict with something you already have?

And here you are still sticking to claiming that the lodge exp is for re-rolling. Ironic. If that’s the only thing you have to point out just to feel like you’re debunking every point I’ve made so far about the purpose of the lodge system, then you really have nothing to prove here. Nitpickers are just the silliest. Move along, there’s really nothing for you here.

#225

I’ve seen a ton of class diversity so far.

This is what I hate. Changing a game for the sole purpose to get a bigger playerbase. This post from another game im watching sums it up http://camelotunchained.com/v3/foundational-principle-3/
Just read the first paragraph.

I guess you just don’t understand what appeals to me about no class resets. You seem like the type who only enjoys endgame. Edit I misread what you said and put a note at the bottom.

I actually dont mind resets in other mmos. We have a similar reset already. reset skill points. But the class system is different.

If you can reset and it will still take time to work your way back up im fine with it. Scroll up to see my suggestion.

I like older mmos. Much better than all the recent mmos. I don’t care how good it looks. I like how you cant reset. I like trying to figure out things on my own. I like risk. If you still don’t understand, try reading the rest of the foundation principles on that game I linked earlier. It is pretty much everything i like in an MMO.
http://camelotunchained.com/v3/category/foundationalprinciple/

ToS doesn’t have every single thing i like in an MMO, but its the only one i enjoy right now.

Edit it seems i misread one of the things i commented on. About the hardcore players would spend time on farming and not spend money. I have spent and will spend money on this game and I like the no class resets. So its just not true.

#226

By the language used in some responses it seems like youre really convinced that anyone who disagrees with class resets is dead wrong. I’ve been following your posts so this isn’t meant in disrespect when I say there’s a lot of hyperbolic language in this last post.

Youve raised decent points so far so please try to keep in mind this issue is subjective in nature.

Some of us simply do not want it despite the discussion so far.