Tree of Savior Forum

Circle reset NEEDED for game to survive!

Gameplay Feedback General Feedback
#186

No, what I was suggesting was that you assumed people were thinking of changing from one base class to another so I corrected you. I don’t really know why it came across a bunch of people that those who want to have a circle reset wants to change base classes… the thread is titled as circle reset after all, not class reset.

The first circles do not forcibly dictate what other circles you pick up, that only applies to certain hidden classes like Chaplain that requires Priest C3. Players are given a choice to go hybrid and experiment with different circles. Personally I would find it part of the fun of the game because you may explore different metas and skill combinations, but the lack of a reset option makes it difficult to do so. It seems like the only way we could’ve done this reliably was back in cbt since wiping would be inevitable anyway. Doing it where your progress will actually matter is just a big waste of time.

Now, with so many circles available, the process of experimentation is almost inevitable and some people will find kits of one class that sound like they would combine well with another kit, and they decide to go for it. If they eventually test it out and come up with poor results, then there is no other choice left for them but to scrap the character.

The current system basically discourages anyone to create a build of their own to test and experiment with, and instead wants all of us to follow all the same cookie-cutter and mainstream builds that beta testers and kToS players provide. This, along with ToS endgame content that completely discriminates unique circles/classes due to its rough nature, is what I feel like are the biggest flaws of this game, gameplay wise.

Sure, ToS is unique in a way that it is one of the few MMO’s that grant you access to multiple classes and abilities, but you can’t toy around with it or you get burned and will have to start over. A circle reset will help resolve this problem quite easily.

As you say, all circles are indeed equal, which is why a circle reset wouldn’t exactly hurt when it’s implemented in this game.

#187

You are officialy TOO dumb to whipe your own ass…
If you’re not bothering actually reading what i’m typing, don’t reply.

#188

I’m at level 214 on my main character and I have a level 60+ alt, the lodge is only at level 4 with 3% bonus exp gain. With just 4 characters to make (or 3 because you might want a pet…) you might just end up with only around 10~15% exp gain in the end - the worst part is that they would have to be all capped already, so what use would the exp gain bonus be?

And might I say again… Tree of Savior is not RO. Most MMORPG’s out there provide resetting options, why would this one not implement one? Even if at least it would be on a controlled and restrictive state so that it cannot be abused.

#189

That’s ironic considering you’re the one who didn’t read what I said at all.

Anyway, I’m not trying to fight with you here but you seem to be up in arms about it. If you don’t like me replying, then why don’t you scoot? I tried to reply as respectfully as I possibly can. If you feel bad about being corrected then that’s not my problem. I get corrected a bunch of times too but you won’t see me whining unless the correction is absolutely wrong.

If you had a different message from what I have read from your posts, maybe you should learn how to communicate properly next time, mmkay? I just read what you wrote and replied accordingly to the points you’ve made.

#190

I mention lodge xp because it is already in the game and based on the information avalable (lv50 lodge), we potentially get 49% more xp. Based on a company’s POV, why create something that is in direct conflict with something you already have? Both can’t exist at the same time because 1 will always be better then the other making the other a waste of resources.

I only reference ratemyserver because it provides enough information in order to do the research the “anti-reset” side is calling for. Would you rather I reference WOW and wowhead?

#191

Can you really guarantee it? Based on what? Can you provide sources to support this?

… because otherwise you’re just pulling stuff out of your @$$ to support your claim that IMC should cater to your needs and whims because of your stellar decision making skills.

I personally can’t guarantee anything because i’m not a pretentious blowhard (or maybe I am, but at least one who does research) but i’m going to go out on a limb and say that “Circle reset NEEDED for game to survive!” is not true. Quite the sensationalist claim actually… The game will most likely go on even without circle resets because people can just learn and not choose to be bad. Clearly that’s impossible for some. Lastly the title of this post should’ve been.

“Circle reset NEEDED for me to keep playing”

Cheers.

#193

The lodge is implemented not for rerolling, but rather to encourage players to create alternative characters. Of course, like any other MMORPG, endgame will get stale eventually, as there are not much you can do besides PvP, dungeons, daily missions, and general world boss hunting. So naturally, you would have two choices here at max level - it’s either you find some other game to play to fill the rest of the time you have or spice up your gaming, OR you create an alternate character that will give you a different approach to the game. One of them will benefit IMC, but the other will not and will likely lose them profit.

The lodge is implemented in a way that it encourages people to make an alternate character by giving you a sense that building another character will not be as difficult as the last you’ve made. HOWEVER, the lodge itself is flawed and poorly implemented; it doesn’t give as big of a reward as it may have intended to be. For me, 3% exp gain for my alternate character is almost nothing.

TOS Base actually provides a lot of information already for this game, and has an almost similar function to ratemyserver when it comes to Tree of Savior (it has all the databases you need, along with a skill and stat simulator).

I believe you were inclined to mention a Wikia instead, or something similar to Doddler that provides a much more in depth look at abilities and how they work with one another. Like ToS Base, ratemyserver doesn’t cover things like specific skill combos, interaction of skills with another skill/situations, or special tricks on certain abilities, but you can refer to its existing Wiki or Doddler for things related to that and be more aware of what skills can do that will help you prepare to plan for your build.

1 Like
#194

No there has been plenty of fansites, calculators, and resources and two CBT, thats more than enough time for everyone to plan their build BEFORE the game launched. anybody that screwed up did that on their own fault

#195

I think if somebody at the moment screws up their build it is rly their fault.

But what some don’t want to see that when another rank comes it will bring a lot of stuff in the game.

When Druid skills were moved to higher circles ppl were crying and they actually cried back some skills to circle 1… I could actually agree with that and didn’t bother me.

But I rly hope that Bloodletting actually will be moved to even c3 XD… Maybe it won’t happen anyway it’s just my hope… but if it will I would rather want to give ppl circle reset than let them cry back that to circle 1. XD

#196

So do you just want everyone to make the same build and not experiment like a bunch of people did, hoping that it would work effectively or that it would be a build unique for them that doesn’t hinder them late game?

I mean, what’s the use of the large amount of classes in this game if people aren’t allowed to experiment it first hand without having to re-roll in case the plan fails? Not everyone even got to play CBT either so they could not experience building a character that they might have planned to create and eventually fine tune their build later on for OBT in case they didn’t enjoy it like they thought they would.

And what good would those resources be when the game begins updating and revamping skills, stats, and other gameplay elements? Would you say then that everyone who got affected simply screwed up by not having a time machine and determining the future changes so they wouldn’t need a reset?

And what of the players who find Tree of Savior in steam, thinking it would be a fun game, realize that they have built wrong but do not want to start over because of the heavy grinding that this game requires?

Instead of letting them support the game by buying something from the store that would help them rebuild their character without throwing all their effort and time invested on a character down the drain, would you just want them to quit outright instead and find another game to play? I’m sure IMC wouldn’t want that, nor do the players if they want a relatively healthy population of people to flaunt their “perfect builds” to them so that they can feel superior.

1 Like
#197

With so many resources, it took me the whole icbt2 to figure out the right build because there is too many contradicting and wrong info flying around.

Example:
Reflect Shield is a must have.
Sleep is useless.
Levelling Energy Bolt does nothing.
Add SPR for SP regen or you won’t survive.

You would expect a new player to fk up easily, because it’s impossible to discern those info without guidance from experienced player, or testing in icbt2.

Even so, a new player has no way to know who is the real deal.

4 Likes
#198

i guess ppl crying for skill and circle resets never played the real classic Ragnarok Online :slight_smile:
Just becuase u cannot change ur specc to the next cookie cutter like in world of shitcraft u cry about no circle resets?

Do Research b4 u go a crap build!

Just my 2 Cents

2 Likes
#199

experimenting would be done using the tosbase skills simulator, plenty of youtube gameplay videos out there, no you dont just jump into the game and choose any random circle without knowing the synergies and benefits of getting specific ones. thats something i did in closed beta and wow i was such a screw up! (archer c3 sapper c1) i decided to read the whole forums to make a better build before launch

cathexis has a large guide that covers everything there is to know about the swordsman classes especially hoplite, steparu has a youtube channel that covers gameplay for alot of job classes during the korean cbt, and theres plenty of other resources out there, there is really no room for screw up at all.

#200

Except most of the videos and content creators you just mentioned launched very old, outdated videos of CBT and many changes have been made then. I can only imagine the amount of disappointed players that watched Steparu’s Monk PvP videos when they find out their Energy Blast doesn’t 1shot people in PvP/duels anymore…

And really, most people who would research about builds would be those that have waited a long time and anticipated this game’s release. The rest of the players who just find about the game through friends, ads, or steam store will only look for a class that looks most appealing to them or have a kit with a playstyle they feel like they would enjoy. They most likely wouldn’t even know that ToS base existed until they have started playing or a friend points it out, and that there are skill simulators and stat calculators out there. And when they find out they’re not enjoying it as much as they wanted to, the option of rerolling a character might seem too frustrating for them that they might just quit outright. People have no obligation to continue a game if they don’t want to. But it hurts the game when they leave, especially if they’re willing to pay to fix their mistakes.

Also, let’s remember that ToS base is 3rd party content, IMC did not make them. This means IMC was clear into making sure that people would just explore the different classes and skills by not releasing relevant data and instead having other 3rd parties to release them to the public and help other people themselves.

But due to the current game design where unorthodox builds are punished severely at end game content, there is no choice but to remake a character from scratch should you have made a build that simply doesn’t work the way you planned it to be. Why not just give a players a chance to reset then, even if it would be limited or restrictive on certain aspects like being able to reset only a few circles and whatnot? At least then you don’t waste the effort and time that was invested in that character.

#201

Instead of a circle reset how about a “try before you buy” type of deal? Instead of doing some silly quest to get a job change done, how about the player can transport to a testing area where they can try out all the jobs available to them at their current rank and can defeat x monster in x room that give no exp or money or drops as well as have a damage testing dummy & party member testing dummy (for heals and buffs).

After you’re done you can decide what class you want to choose and then it won’t be so painful if you immediately regret your class decision because you didn’t realize you don’t like the class or it really doesn’t work with your build.

#202

skill changes were quickly updated on tosbase, steparu’s channel description specifically says certain gameplay videos were nerfed, comparing korean cbt to icbt and even so its not the end of the world because alot of job classes are still very playable… were all very lucky to even have C7 jobs because that wasnt even supposed to be released right away

still, theres just a few people on here that is hard of hearing and would perfer swordsman c2 over swordsman c1 / peltasa c1 regardless of what others tell them about the differences, and then regret it later on… just search how many topics there is about that particular thing

#203

Show me the announcement by IMC stating such or show me identification proving your employment by IMC, otherwise that is nothing but your assumption.

Building another character includes rerolling. As such the lodge xp system supports rerolling. The degree in which the system supports rerolling is a different matter so I will leave it at that.

As for information available to do research, here is a very simple question anyone might happen to think up.
Deploy Pavise: bleeding chance
What do I need to increase the damage on the bleed? Why is the description different from Thrust: bleeding when they are essentially the same thing?

Then let’s look at [bash]
A melee attack with ATK equal to (100+30SkillLV)%. There is a HIT bonus of 5SkillLV. If the character has the Fatal Blow skill as well, levels 6-10 will add a chance to Stun of 5%*(Bash SkillLV - 5) plus a bonus depending on BaseLV.

Oh look, skill interaction.

If you think TosBase is enough then I can see why you would push for a reset option.

@Raven I would imagine something like this:
You know those training areas with the training dummies? How bout IMC put an npc there that sells costumes for silver. These costumes grant you all skills of that class at all lvs. Leave the area and the costume disappears.

#204

Show me the announcement by IMC stating such or show me identification proving your employment by IMC, otherwise that is nothing but your assumption.

It’s really common sense. if it’s for re-rolling, it should give something more significant than just a small exp boost, like being able to transfer silver and equipment to another character.

And IMC doesn’t expect you to delete your character either, because if you do, you will lose some of the lodge benefits I assume (correct me if I’m wrong here, I assume that’s how it works). How would it still be about re-rolling then?

Building another character includes rerolling. As such the lodge xp system supports rerolling. The degree in which the system supports rerolling is a different matter so I will leave it at that.

You’re not thinking out of the box here. Building another character can mean a lot of things. One of them is re-rolling. However, another would be is that they want to try out this other class or build because of general interest or appeal.

If the game has a supportive re-rolling system and the lodge is part of it, why are we unable to transfer silver to another character? Why is it that we lose potential when we transfer gear to another character? Why is it that we cannot transfer multiple items like gems, monster gems, monster cards, and certain equipment like Ledas shield to another character? All of the answers to these questions simply point out one thing - the game supports multiple, different, individual characters in one account, but not re-rolling. Just as re-rolling is the least likely thing that IMC supports based from the current restrictions, re-rolling is least likely supported and encouraged through the lodge system.

As for your last point, skill interaction is subjective and are things that are not directly stated in their tooltip.

For example, does the Hunter’s Land Mine skill in Ragnarok say in the tooltip that you can push it around with Arrow Shower and stack it on top of each other to deal a great amount of burst damage? No. Yet on stuff like Wiki where it’s listed as a tip or note or simply through in-game experience we can learn this neat fact and use it in-game.

For ToS, since there is no functional Wiki (current wiki is just outdated or lacking information) and there is no current experimental processes going on of the sheer amount of available classes and skills (mainly due to the lack of circle resets and the difficulty of raising a character from start to finish), it’s difficult to find out what works and what doesn’t work. Also RO is leagues older than ToS, which has just been only released to the public in the west for roughly a month. Which means plenty of people will experiment and play around with stats and skills. New playstyles and combinations will be introduced as more content is added.

And it’s quite the opposite actually. ToS Base is not enough, and at the same time, ToS is just completely different from RO as it has a lot of classes, niche and mainstream alike. Not everything is set in stone and noted to be the possible best combination even if people might claim it to be.

We’re all still in a learning process. I’m pushing for a skill reset just so to encourage that kind of experimentation and fun which happens on a lot of newly released games. Even newly released games have a skill reset of some form to let people experiment as well.

#205

Common sense or not, that is not a valid reason to make “claims” (like “lodge xp system is NOT for rerolling”) for the company.

Wow. You do not even know what happens (with lodge xp) when you delete a character yet you make these claims of what it is and is not for. That’s like that other guy debating the buff cap without knowing which buffs do and don’t contribute to it. What was that fallacy again? Appeal to authority?

Well thank you for helping to disprove this.

#206

i seriously hope they had a 1 time reset or something… cause i messed up my Full tank build and i need to fix it >.<