Tree of Savior Forum

Change the [Magic Scrolls] ( RNG Stats in the Cash Shop )

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#128

Can you guys please stop comparing LoL with ToS? And call people “you know nothing about it” when youre the ones comparing them x.x
One billion times: LoL is an effing MMOBA - making MMOBAs NOT p2w is the easiest thing in the world - you cannot compare them to MMORPG - despite the fact that lotsa people love that genre and the market isnt filled with those like MMORPG (idk even how many MMORPG we got but must be in the 100s)

And to those who called early access p2w - then buying champs with real money is p2w in MMOBAs as well “cause you get the benefit earlier than others while they must play sucky champs to earn the in game currency” bla bla … whatever silly stuff going on here xD

#129

It’s true, in North America especially, the game allowing players to pay to get ahead of others is one of the most unattractive features in and out of MMOs. Shortcuts to some items everyone can obtain are not as bad if they can reasonably be obtained (none of this kill 10k of this low level mob bs), like in Planetside 2 . People will play your game if it’s good and will keep playing if the updates are constant. What killed planetside 2 were the lack of support and questionable business moves.

Another example would be when MapleStory launched its Reboot server which was dubbed the “non pay to win server” People who hadn’t played MapleStory in a decade came back just to play on that server and it was packed for months. Yet where they messed up was that there wasn’t enough content for people to stay, what was there was really repetitive, too easy and they had some unattractive cosmetics in the cash shop for the server (with a 90 day duration). Maplestory also has no PVP or GVG so it amplifies the previous issues.

#130

Jynxie10, let me put this in as simple terms as possible for you. If I am playing league of legends, and I play as a character (lets say annie). And you are playing the same character. No amount of money will give me an advantage over you. We will be on completely equal footing.

Now lets take what IMC is doing with their cash shop. Lets say we are both playing the same class. If one of us utilizes the cash shop, that person will have an actual statistical advantage over the other person. One of us could in theory have 6 movespeed, 3 AOE, and more magic damage compared to the other person.

But lets break it down to even the most simple version. One of us could simply have more attack power and while we beat on each other the other player will always lose.

What IMC needs is for the only difference between my swordsman and yours is our hair styles and costumes. Not how much damage, how fast we move, or how good we are at farming. I have no problem at all supporting a company with cosmetics. I own every single katarina skin in League of legends. thats almost 100$ in pure cosmetics. If the game is fun, people with money will support it. If the game is imbalanced because people spend money, it isn’t fun. And it hurts the game in the long run.

#131

You comparing this to lol is quite funny. Having more champions doesnt make you win anything , skill is important for that game, more than your amount of champions lol. It doesnt make any sense that argument of yours.

#132

IMC are being very sneaky. First they have the founder pack fiasco. Then they go back on their word, release a vote that is clearly rigged (Anyone would go with B) and then they sell said founder packs as DLC not Early Access thus making them non refundable. All while they are downplaying this P2W issue, basically ignoring it.

Sneaky sneaky.

1 Like
#133

You’re a tool. End of story. Have fun being a tool.

To everyone else; sorry :slight_smile:

We were supposed to be starting today
#134

Lose an argument name calling someone. I dont feel like going down to your level though.

#135

Runes can’t be bought with real cash and they only make a difference at level 30 which can take a while. By that point you know what to buy and you have champions you like that you are most likely going to be buying runes for exclusively. They really nearly perfected their play and earn as you go system.

#136

FOR GODS SAKE THIS IS A MMORPG NOT A MMOBA YOU WILL ALWAYS ENCOUNTER PEOPLE STRONGER OR WEAKER THAN YOU CAUSE WE DO HAVE WHAT MAJOR MMOBAS DONT HAVE WICH IS CALLED PERMANENT EQUIPMENT

Its like comparing sun and moon “oh the sun shines brighter and the moon doesn thats so unfair thats p2shine” x.x people these days

2 Likes
#137

Even ignoring the competitive aspects; adding stat-gachapons messes up with the development of the game to a very terrible degree and literally makes playing the game a chore.

When you insert these items into a game, it increases the ‘‘standard of power’’ players are going to have. Once players can start soloing bosses in 30 seconds, new content that is developed has to be developed with this power level in mind. They then have to buff their bosses(often unfairly) to compete with this power.

Players who do not drastically squander away money for these stat advantages are not able to get to this content in a timely manner at all. Even if they are better in skill and more efficient in their farming it just becomes more and more futile to even try when you can just work for a couple of hours at your job and throw in a quick 50$ and roll some stats.

If they do not balance bosses with this power level in mind, it ruins the economy for that boss. The pay2win statted characters will be soloing these bosses at extremely alarming rates, there will be no incentive to farm that boss yourself as the items they could potentialy drop have already been flooded throughout the market. This isn’t really an option for a game like ToS which obviously tries to take its economy seriously.

Giving the players the power to buy a RNG stat boosting item is the prelude to a games castration, I really don’t understand why they are making these decisions with this game. This game; when it was announced…was practically selling itself, it had ONE job and in the past few months I’ve been lurking these boards it seems they have demonstrated concerning practices time and time again.

I don’t care about the Founders Pack thing, I’m a player who isn’t afraid to use cash in a game they play…but when they start Gachaponning outfits and making RNG stat-boosting items it stops becoming a matter of enjoying the game and encourages really bad habbits for the developers.

1 Like
#138

Well I this topic could go on forever just like any other p2w topic.

I’d not judge anything until I actually play it and see how things work.
Maximum TP for free player is 5, magic scroll is 8 TP. (kToS)
If I can find a way to cover 3 TP without paying. Then nothing is matter here.

Just a friendly note though, money didn’t came out of no where. Someone have to spend time to make it. So there’s nothing wrong if they spend money to take their time back.

1 Like
#139

The fact that virtual gambling is legal in USA does not budge the fact that THIS kind of monetization is NOT a solution:

  1. So people are allowed to throw away real money for an unjustified cause.

  2. Reduced emotional investment in the game and the community itself.

  3. IF there is no real benefit to having Pay2Win headgears, why do they exist?

  4. honestly the game doesn’t need it. it’s fine without!

Clearly, nothing GOOD can come out of throwing money into a slot machine. At the end of the day TOS is just turning your computer into an online casino, except you get zero real life benefit.

Additionally how does it effect the community:

  1. creates a divide between f2p players and those that invest in these slot machines systems that promotes boosters and cash item enhancers.

  2. Alchemists which is a class specifically only has value in Awakening and making potions, but if i can get ele atk from headgear that i bought on the market for 100k because someone paid real money and sold their headgear on the market. There will be no reason for Alchemists to Awaken items due to this.

Clearly they are polluting their own game by changing the way things should and shouldn’t be. This is because the gameplay itself should be solid without boosters and pay2win items.

  1. It encourages a lazy-player mindset, that want instant gratification. But this game is about investment and playing your character out, trying new builds and enjoying the game with your friends. Or is this not the game that I am playing on the 29th March when the server opens?

Maybe I made a mistake paying $50 to support the game?

Ok so I haven’t proposed a solution. This is more about the modern gamer mentality, casual, core and hardcore. What do you as a company expect from your community.

I’m saying the solution is simple:

  1. Encourage social activity, increase the number of fun things you can do in the game. Make it so that we can enjoy those things as a party, in a group so that we can have fun as a community.

  2. Upon executing additional contents to improve the community aspect of the experience for f2p players, we can THEN, consider cash shop benefits but without creating a divide in the community:

Cosmetics:

  • Hair styles!
  • Costumes! (Well Done!!!)

Premium benefits (subscription):

  • Dungeon entrance +2 (Great!)
  • Additional move speed +3. Not too much not too little!
  • Additional Buff slot +1
  • Premium animated emotes. Nice touch! love it.

^ Nice Job IMC, just these alone is good. Not adding stat boosters, or random stats. Just supporting the game that we love because it’s a good game! Doesn’t divide the community or restrict content, or make items just for stat bonuses.

What else can we add to this list without dividing the community and isn’t a money sink:

Starter Packs

  • (swordsman, wizard, archer, cleric) with unique and fixed stats that are good until level 170, in which you have to start hunting your own gear, buying it from the market, hunting mats, etc. You also get a selection of potions, such as movement speed, low level exp cards for a small headstart, hp/mp potions, etc, etc.

Collectible booster packs

  • Cards that work in a card game, these cards can also be farmed from specific monsters at a low drop rate. Also a chance to get rare cards. Note: All cards do not apply any benefits to your character.

##Pet Tame Items

  • Items used to tame monsters like popolion and various other creatures in the game.

The point is. There are many interesting contents that are unrelated to convenience and gameplay that do not relate to what has been previously discussed. Random chance Pay2Win economy or otherwise.

We can establish our own Brand of game, and make that the selling point of Tree of Savior. What content, should we make available in the game that makes it fun and enjoyable and I say this loudly…

@STAFF_John @STAFF_Ethan

As A Community

#140

That is time not properly balanced in the rewards for it. Bill Gates shouldn’t be able to effectively ruin this game because he’s rich in real life and doesn’t care about the overall balance of the game and doesn’t have time out of his busy rich life to actually play the game.

Having pay-for-convenience options is fine as long as it doesn’t vastly overpower actually playing the game, the only way to justify this would be making the cash version of the scroll have lower ceilings(much much lower ceilings) and allow players to grind for much stronger versions of the scrolls. People who don’t cash and want to actually farm don’t have their presence removed from the game, and the casher who just wants to have a convenient path to level 200+ or whatever still has motivation to play the game to get even stronger gear…

It’s true we can’t judge everything because ‘‘It’s still in beta dude!’’ but these features are nothing new to the gaming industry at all. They have been tried and true methods of effectively burning the fun and love of online games to dust all for the sake of a couple of extra bucks, and the signs are there. It needs to be made clear before these features are even added that they are NOT OKAY.

#141

Yes youre correct, it is not fair. How do you make casher spend cash then? Hiring Bill Gates to sponsor TOS so IMC can no longer have money problems then?

#142

Basically, the only defense for this practice is ‘‘Dude, it’s their right. They’re a business, they need to make profit, it’s nothing personal.’’.

Yeah, you’re technically right; but when you defend a company that way you’re basically throwing their reputation in the mud just to invalidate what I say regardless of how meaningful it is.

If this game cannot support itself financially without insulting its own design philosphy then it is not a game that deserves support. There are many ways to earn money without ruining the integrity of your game; stuff like this is what you’d expect from bad investors pressuring them to milk their game as much as they can so they can dump it in a few years.

#143

There thousand people work for him. So basically, he would use his employee’s time.
Even the game is well balance, Bill Gate could ruins any game if he want :smiley:

But that’s not the thing to discuss here. My point is we have to look on 2 sides. If we can’t be reasonable, IMC will not listen to us at all.

#144

Just to clarify:

You can’t obtain TP from other means besides the free TP that caps at 5. You have to pay. There is nothing in the game currently ( iToS or kToS version ) that allows for this.

Nothing in this topic is aimed at IMC not being able to have a way to make money. They should be able to make money, and players should support them.

I don’t believe that creating RNG stat-giving items in the cash shop is the way to do it, and I think more importantly that by having this item it will hurt the game’s longevity and cause IMC to make less money in the log run.

1 Like
#145

You make interesting content so subscribers ( token users ) are compelled to keep paying every 30 days for a token. You create more hairstyles and class costumes so people want to buy them. You create incentives for people to create new characters/classes, so that they will buy a costume/hairstyle for that class, and buy exp boosters to level that class quicker.

You create healthy ways of making money by having the game be continually interesting to players, so that they keep playing and the community keeps growing. Do this with endgame PvE dungeons/areas, GvG, end game content, scaling PvP, adding more content as the game grows, etc.

1 Like
#146

Yes, they have to find ways then if this P2W items is not applicable. How about restricting the convenience of free players? Is this good? Cosmetics alone may not be enough to support or float this game. Do you agree with restrictions? Im pretty sure you have an idea on your mind for the alternatives, smart people tend to have alternative solutions if they see something is not right.

#147

That’s our assumption.