Tree of Savior Forum

Auto Attack (A2/QS3/x/x) Guide

First, credit to @ryusacerdos for helping to make a Google Sheets to compare damage values at modifiable values. Link next to the sheet

Well, I keep seeing people asking every day about how to build their auto attack archer. I figured I’ve done a good amount of research and will try to compile the information I’ve found in a guide.

Take note that a lot of the things going forward is based on information I’ve parsed from the wiki, other players, and my opinions. Hopefully they are accurate…and if nothing else, maybe we as a group can gather what we know and optimize the build together.

Let’s get started. I’m going to base the build around A2/QS3. The last 2 circles can be swapped to spice up the build for Falconer for Circling, Archer 3 for Kneeling/Swift/Multishot/Twin Arrow, or Scout for Cloaking/Flareshot, but I believe A2/QS3 is the core of the build for PvE. Choosing circle 6 and 7 deserve their own sections.

PROS/ CONS of the build

PROS:
-Very high single target damage
-High sustained damage
-Swift Step critical passive scales well into end game
-Highest attack speed in the game
-Very few mana problems after you obtain Running Shot (lower potion costs)
-Capable of soloing up to 200 pretty well (not a support class)

CONS:
-Auto attacks don’t scale as well as skills due to the attribute for Kneeling Shot having flat scaling and Running Shot having no attribute scaling
-Lack of ANY real AoE until circle 6 or 7
-Horrible leveling experience until you get Running Shot at either level 80ish or 120ish
-Slightly ping dependent for auto attacks to register
-Running Shot doesn’t have 100% uptime
-End game weapon (Didel Grand Cross) is untradable and comes from a RNG box in the level 240 daily (twice a day limit)
-Not a world boss class due to lack of burst damage

The machine gun archer doesn’t deal the most damage per second, it doesn’t have the best AoE, and it doesn’t level the fastest. You probably won’t be winning world boss races due to lag and lack of real burst.

I believe that this build really shines at doing one thing: farming field mobs for low rate drops. Rare drops in this game are noted in the English wiki at 0.3% and some of the rarest drops probably have an even lower rate. Combined with the shitty respawn rates currently in the game, and you will need to grind a lot in the field for rare drops to craft some 1337 items. You really might be farming low level mobs for a while though to get monster gems for collection/ use.

This is where the machine gun archer (shortening to AA archer) shines. Running Shot allows you to attack and move at full running speed and Kneeling Shot allows you to turret in the middle of a pack of mobs and let auto aim take over. If you went Archer 3, Kneeling Shot level 10 allows you to hit almost everything on your screen by just holding attack and letting the in game auto aim hit the enemies for you.

The lack of AoE from the AA archer doesn’t harm it as much in the field as the mobs generally don’t mob together as well. Running Shot also provides high single target damage to kill field elites who have significantly more HP while also not overkilling normal mobs due to auto attacks being many small segments of damage over time.

One of the main negatives of the build though is that it is slightly ping dependent. It seems that ToS makes you confirm your actions on their servers before they allow the action to complete. This means that each of your auto attacks must register as a hit on the enemy before you can attack and hit the mob again.

Most people recommend that you have under 100 ping to play this auto attack build. I personally live within 150 miles of the server and still have between 20 and 100 ping. The netcode of this game seems awful and I hope they improve it. I would say that anything under 200 ping is within 85-90% of optimal compared to someone with 50 ping. The max attack speed you can obtain in this game is around 3 attacks per second which means you theoretically only need 333 ping to do.

STATS: How to fail at scaling in ToS

This is a topic I keep seeing in the class sub-forums. Let me say this right now.

SCALING IN TREE OF SAVIOR IS AWFUL.
SCALING IN TREE OF SAVIOR IS AWFUL.
SCALING IN TREE OF SAVIOR IS AWFUL.

Everything scales linearly. See this wiki page to see how each stat scales.
http://wiki.tosbase.com/wiki/Stats

Let’s go through each stat.

STR scales at a rate of 1 + ((class rank - 1) x 0.1). Essentially, you gain 1.6 damage per point of STR when you are at the current max class rank of 7. In general, each point of base damage you get from your weapon/body/equipment/collections/skills makes your STR less of total damage. At end game your body and equipment equals about 1100-1300 damage depending on your equips. STR generally matters more if you are using skills with low base damage or hit multiple times. Even at near full STR though, when using skills that have high base damage, a majority of your damage will come from your body and skill damage.

In the end though, for optimal damage, STR is needed since everything else scales badly.

INT is worthless to Archers, so it doesn’t even need to be thought of. I really think INT is the weakest stat in the whole game. A lot of Wizard damage comes from base damage and Wizards are squishy as hell.

SPR scales horribly in the same way that STR and INT scale horribly: it scales linearly and in very small amounts. The most interesting thing about SPR is that it scales Mdef (also at a horrible .2/SPR rate), which might of been useful if Mdef scaled better and if it wasn’t such a low rate.

DEX, and therefore crit, is one of the very few things in this game that scale multiplicity (+50% damage and your crit attack) instead of linearly. So, any crit gained that doesn’t put you over 100% crit scales the damage you have better.

kToS actually published the crit rate as ((crit rate - crit resist) x 42) / (your level). This means that every time you level up, your effective crit rate lowers due. If we had 200 crit at level 100, our crit rate against a 0 crit resist monster, we would have ((200 - 0) x 42) / 100 = 84%. Pretty nice rate there. Now, if we had 200 crit at level 200 against the same monster, then we have ((200 - 0) x 42) / 200 = 42%. Not so nice anymore.

This basically means we need to continually increase our crit rate to maintain your crit rate at higher levels. Auto attack archers get a bit of scaling though with Kneeling Shot and DEX. If you use Kneeling Shot a lot, you will benefit more from DEX due to the damage scaling and the critical scaling attribute of Kneeling Shot.

CON is the final stat. I am here to argue that CON is very important. People die when they are killed. If you are dead, you deal 0 damage. I am here to argue that base scaling with equipment is OK enough in this game without STR/DEX scaling (since damage scaling is bad).

I believe a 0 STR/ 0 DEX build still deals around 65-70% of the damage of a high STR/DEX build. The conclusion really is that this game’s damage mostly comes from base damage + equipment instead of stat scaling.

Thus, CON enters the game. At end game (Earth Tower currently) mobs deal MASSIVE damage. Most of the videos I see from Earth Tower has everyone at 14000 HP or above. I highly recommend at least 11000 HP from CON and hope to make up the rest through equips.

I see a lot of people recommend around 30-40 CON. I would highly suggest 60-75 actual points in CON for PvE. This build is going to focus on PvE so I won’t make recommendations for PvP. Hell even full CON is viable, but I would recommend against it since you will never be as tanky as a warrior nor have as much utility as a full CON Cryo/Linker.

The TL; DR section here for stats. I’ll list 2 example builds below.

3 STR: 2 DEX: 1 CON
-Basically, this is the spread sheet way to maximize damage. What you should be doing is calculating your crit rate each level (or at max level) and how much each point of DEX gives you versus how much each point of STR gives you.

Each point of crit makes your damage worth more while each point of damage scales your crit to be worth more. Break out your Excel sheet and plot it out Diablo 3 style. Refer to the link above for a small example of scaling.

The smart people who are actually do the Excel sheet and maximize damage will also need to put some CON in there. If they are doing Excel sheets on the matter, I figure they will min max and find a suitable amount of CON for themselves. Again, I recommend around 14000 hp. Example build below with 150 STR, 100 DEX, and 50 CON:

4 DEX: 1 CON
-With around 300 stat points and level 280, you would have around 13000 hp. Less than that before then. A few collections and 2 hp armor pieces/head accessory will get you around the 14000 hp mark.

Comparing the 2 builds, the STR/DEX build has around 300 more damage and 1000 less HP. The DEX build has 200 more critical, 200 more evasion, and better scaling on Swift Step (both evasion and critical) and 1000 more HP.

For both builds, I recommend putting any points over the 300 I have listed into the lowest stat in the build. For the STR/DEX/CON build, put the remaining points into CON. For the DEX/CON build, I would recommend excess points into STR. I believe you get at least 30 to 40 extra stat points (I might be completely wrong here), so you would have about 20 more points to allocate during your leveling process.

You have to make sure you don’t go over 100 crit in the DEX build though. At 667 crit, you will have 100.2% crit. A lot of mobs at level 285 have around 100 crit resist, so I would say anything over 770 crit might be too much. With the DEX build you might skirt the barrier with going over 100% crit.

SKILLS:
I’ll do an overview of what I think of each skill assuming we go A2/QS3. Rank 6 and 7 need their own section.

Archer skills (up to A2):

Mulitshot (lvl 10):
One of the strongest scaling skills in the game. At level 10, Multishot hits 11 times. With A2, we get the attribute to reduce its cast time by half. I would estimate the charge time of lvl 10 MS to be around 1 second. Actually casting MS though takes around 2 seconds; this feels like eternity when you include the cast time of 1 second. You are actually able to move about half way through the cast, but you can’t do much during this time. All casts of other skills and attacks fail…except MS itself again. So the game encourages you to cast MS twice in a row as the optimal strategy by allowing you to buffer the next cast of MS during the recovery time of the first MS. Standing still for 5-6 seconds is generally not advised for your health.

MS is probably also your only form of burst damage for the first 220 levels of your life. This mostly refers to attacking linked targets. Just note that MS is best used vs single targets and not groups (unless linked) due to how MS hits random targets in its small AoE.

Anyway, MS is a very strong and will carry you through a large part of the game. It is one of the skills you use during the downtime of Running Shot. I believe MS is also one of the skills with the lowest attribute costs making it relevant well into late game.
Instant 10/10 in the build, no questions.

Swift Step (lvl 10):
One of the biggest reason people take A2 is to get the Swift Step critical attribute to gain the 25% critical buff and have it have a 100% uptime. Take note that the critical buff only applies to yourself. One of the things that annoys me the most is having other Archers overriding my Swift Step with theirs and me losing my crit buff. If you are an Archer, please turn off the party sharing part of the buff. As you get higher level, amount of buffs you get from the party increases. So this helps everyone if you turn off the party share attribute.

Anyway, this skill is a no brainer for anyone going A2. Get 10/10 and try to keep it up as much as possible.

Kneeling Shot (lvl 5):
This skill seems to polarize people. I use it all the time. If you have high DEX, this skill actually scales extremely well. Especially when you consider the attribute that gives 10% more critical when you use KS. The damage from KS is also directly applied to your body so it is fully scaled by critical (can be seen by opening your character menu and turning KS on and off).

Anyway, one of the benefits to this skill is that you gain auto aim when it is on. You can turn this on in the middle of a map and just hold attack. The game will aim for you within a certain range. Very useful if people bring their shitty pets with them who obscure targetting.

This whole guide is assuming you are going to be playing an AA archer. I think you should automatically take this skill to 5 if you are playing this (maybe SR people excluded). I would recommend people that don’t use this skill much to try to use it more.

Full Draw (lvl 1):
I’ll be using this excuse later, but I believe that not taking skills to be almost always the wrong choice. You won’t really use this at all in PvE. I find that the attribute doesn’t seem to work vs bosses. So why take this skill? Well it is utility for when you want an enemy pushed away and pinned down (doesn’t work vs bosses). Maybe use this to knock + pin down an elite archer enemy chasing you down to cast Spiral Arrow on you while you run across the map.

Also, this skill is useful in PvP as minor crowd control. CC always rules PvP. Even though this guide is assuming you are purely doing PvE, you still might find yourself in a random GvG and should always have as much utility as possible. Thus, you take 1 point here. Nothing better to use it on anyway.

Heavy Shot (lvl 1):
Basically take everything I said about Full Draw and apply it here. Pretty boring skill, but again - don’t skip skills as the utility in PvE and PvP is more useful than getting like 20 more damage on another skill.

Oblique Shot (lvl 1 or 3):
You will be using this skill for a large part of your early game. Since we are maxing other skills, this skill only gets the excess points. Put 1 point here if you don’t plan on taking A3, or 3 points here if you only take A2. This is the skill that scales the remaining 2 points left for the people who go A2.

This skill actually still has use into late game for one stupid reason. Basically, if there are pets around it is hard to aim for mobs. Thus, I sometimes find myself casting Oblique Shot to auto aim and hit enemies even if there is only 1 enemy -_-;;

Quarrel Shooter (class rank 3)

Running Shot (RS) (lvl 5):
The bread and butter of the build. The whole build revolves around this skill and what you do when it is up or down. This skill is also the reason why you will be forced into the Grand Cross (GC) for a good part of the game (and Didel Grand Cross (DGC) in late game). Using the GC or DGC giving Running Shot 2 levels means an extra 80% damage on top of your body’s damage. No other weapon in the game will come close to matching this damage boost. Even if (and I mean IF) muskets attack faster, they will never match the extra 4 seconds of using a DGC and the extra 80% damage.

Anyway, take a look at my attack speed tests in post 2 of this guide. You attack at about 2 atks/sec under RS if you use mouse mode animation cancelling. You should learn the range that you can attack an enemy from when under RS and think about how you are moving if you have aggro of the boss. If you have boss aggro, you should try to run left and right constantly and consistently and try to keep the boss under the AoE circles of other classes. This helps people who needs to hit the back of the boss and improves the DPS of ground AoEs. I always hate it when people randomly run around when they have aggro.

Scatter Caltrops (lvl 15):
The only “AoE” you will have for a good part of the game. It isn’t even real AoE. Still, it is a very useful skill that can gather aggro and stop enemies who step on them. It seems to me that a mob can only be hit by a caltrop every x seconds. I find myself using this skill a lot and there are quite a few good use cases for it.

This skill also scales caltrops per level (to a max of 15) so we max this skill as it scales directly with skill levels.

Rapid Fire (lvl 10):
No clue how this skill actually scales. I find myself really using this skill by channeling it for a quarter of a second and releasing it on bosses. The fraction of a second charge still seems to cast 6 or 7 arrows and applies the full crit resist debuff. There are cases where you can charge the full 3 seconds like during the lvl 100 daily mission where you are drawing the bosses away. You can charge this in the passage and wait till the boss is in range then release it at full power.

Anyway, there isn’t much else to level and this skill seems to at least directly scale with level, so 10/10.

Stone picking/ Stone Shot (lvl 1):
I’ll do these together. Again, I don’t like not having the utility. Especially since we will be using a DGC which increases these skills to 3. Stone Shot will have a 5 second stun at lvl 3 which is alright I guess. These skills will probably never be used in PvE, but meh, might as well get 1 level of them.

Teardown (lvl 1):
The only true AoE you will get during A2/QS3. Slow as hell to execute due to Deploy Pavise taking half a second to cast and then having to kick the shield. I also find Teardown strange to use as you can miss the kick of Teardown and still use up a charge. Still, I’ve found myself using this from time to time when RS is down and I have a huge mob of enemies behind me. Take a point and think of this as a 1 point wonder.

Deploy Pavise (lvl 12):
I have completely come around on this skill. I used to think that this skill doesn’t have too much practical use. That was until I found some videos of Koreans using this in Earth Tower to help turtle. In these end game scenarios, you want to be as efficient as possible. Taking this skill to 12 will give it a 40 second uptime and a 35 second CD. I suggest using Teardown on the Pavise before casting the next Pavise in this Earth Tower scenario since casting Pavise over other Pavise makes them both float in the sky. That is where the extra 5 seconds comes in handy.

Example of skill points for leveling and where I’d save points for the next class rank. If you plan on going A3, don’t level Oblique/Heavy/Full Draw and leave those spare points to boost A3 skills faster.

That is enough for the skills part of the core build (A2/QS3). Next up is ranks 6 and rank 7 and the choices to be made there.

6 Likes

Reserved for later use

Attack speed test videos.

Standing
3 seconds to 24 seconds = 21 seconds to shoot 25 times = 1.19 atks/sec
Moving (cancel)
41 seconds to 1:01 = 20 seconds to shoot 25 times = 1.25 atks/sec
Running + no cancel
1:09 to 1:23 = 14 seconds to shoot 25 times = 1.78 atks/sec
Running + cancel
1:47 to 2:00 = 13 seconds to shoot 25 times = 1.92 atks/sec

Kneeling + no cancel
9 to 25 = 16 seconds to shoot 25 times = 1.56 atks/sec
Kneeling + cancel
36 to 51 = 15 seconds to shoot 25 times = 1.66 atks/sec
Kneeling + Running + no cancel
1:06 to 1:17 = 11 seconds to shoot 25 times = 2.27 atks/sec
Kneeling + Running + cancel
1:52 to 2:03 = 11 seconds to shoot 25 times = 2.27 atks/sec

RESULTS:

Seems to me that there is no such thing as canceling anymore? Can anyone else try this and see if they gain atk spd on cancel? Maybe canceling is bow only and xbows can’t be canceled?

Multishot test:

Basically I was testing whether Multishot had added hits to each hit. If Multishot added Sacrament/Cafri/Last Rites/Enchant Fire to each hit, it would be super strong. My conclusion from the video is that Multishot does not add extra hit damage to each shot.

Thus each shot only adds Arde damage once, and I think it doesn’t even add the +12 damage of the base Cafrisun set to it.

Random gameplay if you want to compare your amount of attacks per second to mine. I have somewhere between 16 ping and 80 ping depending on how the server feels.

EDIT: Archer 3 update

Well, I bit the bullet and went A3. So here I am with Kneeling level 10 tests. I’ll dump data first.

standing
0:04 - 0:25
1.19 aps

standing mouse
0:31 - 0:51
1.25 aps

moving
1:01 - 1:21
1.25

moving mouse
1:27 - 1:40
1.92 aps

standing rs
1:49 - 2:03
1.78 aps

mouse rs
2:32 - 2:43
2.27 aps

kneeling
3:05 - 3:17
2.08 aps

kneeling mouse
3:26 - 3:39
1.92 aps

kneeling rs
3:49 - 3:59
2.5 aps

kneeling rs mouse
4:30 - 4:40
2.5 aps

Compare that to level 5 Kneeling:
Kneeling + no cancel
9 to 25 = 16 seconds to shoot 25 times = 1.56 atks/sec
Kneeling + cancel
36 to 51 = 15 seconds to shoot 25 times = 1.66 atks/sec
Kneeling + Running + no cancel
1:06 to 1:17 = 11 seconds to shoot 25 times = 2.27 atks/sec
Kneeling + Running + cancel
1:52 to 2:03 = 11 seconds to shoot 25 times = 2.27 atks/sec

I normally say that a difference of 1 second is within margin of error. I am not counting frames and some of these could start near the beginning of 1 second and end a second which could potentially add 2 seconds of error.

It seems to me that Kneeling on it’s own has gained a good bit of speed. It went from 1.66 aps to 2.08 aps over 25 attacks. Does that mean that 162.5 attack speed is equal to a gain of .4 attacks per second? Would need a Chrono to help me test. For reference, level 5 Quicken is +150 attack speed.

It seems to me also that I can’t figure out how to cancel Kneeling Shot. Mouse mode Kneeling didn’t increase speed either times I tried. It makes me a little happy that Kneeling + Running did increase in speed from level 5 to level 10 though. It increased from 2.27 to 2.5 attacks per second. Still, this might be within the margin of error, but I like to think that the extra speed from level 10 Kneeling is providing that extra speed. I might want to do a long test to see.

For reference too, the Korean video of an attack speed test had level 10 Kneeling + Running at 2.33 aps…which is close to my own. Except he could clearly animation cancel. Which is strange since he only achieved 2.33 aps when he animation canceled while I achieve 2.5 aps without animation canceling.

Whatever the case, it seems that using mouse mode to attack does cause an increase in attack speed if you aren’t Kneeling. So if you are attacking enemies without Kneeling, make sure to click on them. It seems like Running Shot + mouse is almost equal in aps to Kneeling + Running. Your attack is much less, but you are mobile.

A couple random things here. It seems my ping is highly variable. I live within 150 miles of the server. At my best //ping, I had around 13 ping. At my worst, around 99 ping. This changed literally every second. ToS ping stability is crap.

ALso, level 50 Kneeling Shot attribute gives a literal 50 attack in your character sheet. I did the math on this, but didn’t save the screen shot. So for those that told me that Kneeling Shot attribute was just bonus damage and not a flat increase in damage, whelp I haz proof it is flat damage (which is good).

Xbox controller
More useless attack speed tests. Some people mentioned a controller increases attack speed. I tried, I’m doing it wrong or I didn’t get an increase.

3 - 28
57

41 1:06
57

1:17 1:43
58

2.28 atks/sec. Pretty consistent.

1 Like

Maybe it’s just me but what you say about stats sounds either wrong or barely correct. I’ll use your numbers generously.

Full STR:
200 str * 1.6 rank 6 bonus = 320 attack
400 weapon
200 from levels
100 from misc sources (refines, levels, gear)
= 1020 total attack
Running shot does 200% bonus damage per attack so that would be ~3060 damage per attack, assuming you crit nothing.

Full DEX:
200 dex = 0 attack
400 weapon
200 from levels
100 from misc sources (refines, levels, gear)
= 700 total attack
Running shot does ~2100 per attack, 3150 assuming you crit every single hit.

The difference is 90 damage or roughly 3%, a tiny margin.

Of course this is assuming full STR never crits and full DEX always crits which is impossible. Full STR should crit at least some time and the crits will hit harder, and of course full DEX can’t crit every time. Therefore this scenario is already extremely generous to the full DEX build.

These numbers are too close for me to believe you when you say ‘STR scales horribly.’ It seems as though they scale the same, if not STR being better; ignoring DEX’s evasion defensive capabilities of course.

This is taking into account a lot of things such as your numbers are correct, my numbers are correct, the damage formula is as linear as I think it is, etc…

If my(your) numbers are wrong or I’ve made a mistake please let me know.

1 Like

I’ve played several classes to level 50-70 and I must say I enjoy the play style of A1>QS3 so far even as a QS2 I was having fun with a few different abilities. It isn’t boring at all to me.

Hi, just wanted to weigh in here, as I was one of the people who posted a thread on an autoattack musketeer.

So far, I’ve gotten to level 80, with A1 / Q3. I’ve recently just acquired Running Shot which is by far the best thing out of the craphole that OP so well described as “awful leveling experience”. I am also from Singapore, SEA, playing on Orsha an international server, getting roughly 150-220 ping with spikes up to 400.

So to sum my experience, leveling is really tough, as OP has mentioned. I picked Oblique Shot at the beginning, a seemingly useless skill at late game, but without it, I can’t even imagine how tough leveling would be. Be prepared to change channel when literally anyone else comes by to steal your grinding spot. That’s not saying you won’t be able to compete, but you 100 percent, will never be able to get majority of the kills in the long run against most.

I agree with OP on stats, but I would like to stress that I went 50 str before anything else, and that made life easier in the beginning. It will punish you later on though, when you wish you would’ve invested it into CON instead; magic attack mobs will hit you regardless of evasion and your low health pool will keep you on edge.

Things have gotten better with Running Shot, but you still won’t be able to compete with any others, at least up to my current level. No AoE is incredibly punishing. Caltrops are high damage, but unreliable. I sometimes wonder if kneeling shot would have helped with leveling instead of going Quarrel earlier.

I am giving up on getting my archer to musketeer, mainly because the ping is, in fact, too big a factor. With running shot active, While holding the attack button, I mostly hit twice really fast, then about a 0.8-1s delay before 2 hits go off again. Makes it hard to make judgements.

To end off though, I will say that this video was what kept me playing autoattack musketeer : Power of the Machine Gun

Not for the weak willed, but potentially great. There’s also the nostalgic factor for past RO players, seeing so many numbers pop out in a line…

1 Like

Aren’t you going to transfer to SEA server and then your ping would be great?

Are you moving while doing this? I’ve noticed my auto attack speed increases noticeably when I’m moving since it cancels part of the reloading animation.

I’ve noticed a dramatic increase switching to mouse mode as well.

My my, where do you get that you used my math? I don’t see you showing your work at all and you even changed my base assumptions on equips. I’ll post my response below, but at least tell me how you used my numbers +haha

Didel Grand Cross 339 atk, 134 crit atk, 510 at +12
Finisher 417, crit 27 588 at +12
Lolopanther bow 641, 67 crit, earth atk 71, 831 at +12

Crystal Bangle +10 atk
3x hair accessories at +35 physical attack each
misc damage (from armor, collections, ring/neckalce +stats) 50
287 base from body
65 crit base from body
level 6 green gem = +32 crit, minus 19 crit atk on weapon
level 6 green gem in sub weapon = +42 crit
Mana Mana crit 35, lightning 278

  1. Kneeling Shot + Running Shot vs mob with 100 crit resist
    Kneeling Shot with Didel Grand Cross + Mana Mana vs a 100 crit resist mob
    -level 280, 240 points invested in STR/DEX, rest in CON

STR:
313 STR x 1.6 = 501 STR = 501 damage. 501 (STR) + 510 (Didel) + (10 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 50 + 287 = 502 damage from equipment) + 50 (Kneeling attribute) + 52 + 9(Kneeling base damage) + 287 body = 1911 damage from body. Level 7 Running Shot = + 280% damage. 1624 x 2.8 = 5351 damage.

65 crit from body, 64 from weapon gems, 42 from sub weapon, 35 from Mana Mana = 206 crit x 1.25 for Swift Step x 1.1 for Kneeling attribute = 283 crit. minus 100 crit resist = 183 x 42 / 280 = 27% crit rate. Crit damage is 5351 (Kneel + Run damage) x 1.5 (crit mult) + (134 + 501 - 38 = 597 crit damage) = 8623 damage on crit.

At 27% crit rate (round up), our average damamge between normal and crit is ((8623 crit damage x 27 crit rate) + (5351 normal damage x 73 normal atk rate))/ 100 = 6242 average damage. Finally, add 278 lightning damage at the end for Mana Mana = 6520 damage per shot

DEX:
7 STR x 1.6 = 11 STR. 11 (STR) + 510 (Didel) + 502 from equipment) + 50 (Kneeling) + (52 + 315 (Kneeling scaling)) + 278 (body) = 1718 damage x 2.8 (level 7 run) = 4810 damage

371 crit from body, 64 from weapon gems, 42 from sub weapon, 35 from Mana Mana = 512 x 1.25 (Swift Step) x 1.1 = 704 crit minus 100 crit resist, 604 x 42 / 280 = 90.6% crit. Crit damage is 4810 x 1.5 + (134 + 11 -38) = 7323 crit damage.

At 91 crit rate we get ((7323 x 91) + (4810 x 9)) / 100 = 7097 average damage. + 278 from Mana Mana = 7375 average damage

Summary: STR average damage = 6520 per shot, DEX average is 7375 damage per shot. Give or take, pure DEX gives 13% more damage on Kneeling + Running shot with the above equips.

2 Snipe vs unit with 100 crit resist
STR:
(((501 str + 588 weapon + 502 equips + 287 body) x4 + 5997 base) x 2 attribute = 27018 damage
crit: 65 from body, 27 from weapon, 96 from gems = 188 x 1.25 = 235 crit minus 100 crit resist = 135 x 42 / 280 = 20% crit rate. crit damage = 27018 x 1.5 + 501 - 57 = 40971 crit damage

at 20% crit, we have ((40971 x 20) + (27018 x 80)) / 100 = 29809 average damage

DEX:
((11 str + 588 weapon + 502 equips + 287 body) x4 + 5997) base x 2 attribute = 23098 damage
crit: 371 body + 27 weapon + 96 form gems = 494 x 1.25 = 618 crit minus 100 from resist = 518 crit x 42 / 280 = 78% crit. Crit damage = 23098 x 1.5 + 11 - 57 = 34601 crit damage.

78 crit rate: ((34601 x 77) + (23098 x 23)) = 31958 average damage/Snipe

Summary: STR deals 29809 average damage/ Snipe while DEX deals 31958 average damage/Snipe. DEX wins by 7% or so.

Overall:

Basically, I would say that overall, at current equip levels and max level cap, that DEX slightly edges STR in the most used skills on this build. With a 13% margin (pretty big) on Kneeling + Running and a 7% margin on Snipe, I think I make a good case for DEX scaling.

I didn’t use Lolopanther gear too which should further push the margins toward DEX since higher base damage benefits DEX more. I used level 6 gems because level 7 and above gems start costing a lot more. +12 for weapons since you can guarantee +12 with Golden Anvils. I would think that STR might edge closer to DEX’s margins if higher tier gems are used. Not sure if even a level 8 gem would encroach on DEX’s win in the above cases though.

Anyway, the reason DEX wins right now is because it is literally the only stat that scales by a multiplier. The base damage from items in this game are so high that at our level + equips, it is totally viable to go full CON and deal respectable damage.

I just hope people that spout random stuff on these forums will back up their claims with math behind it.

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A Strength build and a Dex build do not wear the same gear. The strength build would sub out all that +attack gear with +crit rate.

It seems to me that you cherry picked a set of gear that makes the full dex build come out on top.

Do your own then. Show me the error of my ways, or make sure my math is right. Hell, I even used maxed level and 100 crit resist.

Man, we’re doing this again. I’m not going to put much effort into it, as it’s been done to death elsewhere on the forums, and it can be looked up rather than rehashed here. Pure DEX is not the way to go for DPS. In practice ( and yes, this is what those of us who have actually played to 200+ and tested out STR vs DEX ourselves say ), it does far less than high STR builds. Account for defense, and that multiplier from crit is working with a much smaller number.

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As I know, running shot bonus damage can’t crit. Do your math now.

Also I have some doubts that kneeling shot bonus damage counts towards running shot, need to test it.

Also in your math you’re missing mobs DEF and penalties for missile attacks, which will net your damage like 1.5-2 times, but it is the same for both STR/DEX builds, so irrelevant. Just if you want more precise evaluation of late game damage.

BTW “64 from weapon gems” crit rate is very low. You can get two sockets in each weapon. And level 6 only gems is not late game, it is very early. Late game is level 8 gems.

That damage on hair acessory could be elemental atribute, would be better I think. About you dex x str thing, man, with a high critical buid (with rank 1 rogue for ex) dex anyway is far less important. My point is, ppl says that STR is better than DEX for damage in most of cases, but not overall, as you show on your build.

Yes, on your build Dex can be better or at least as good as STR. But not on any build with rogue 1, or a build with scout 1 (snipe + invi50% dmg next skill for burst pvp dmg).

Last thing I type is that I hope people back up their claims with math…and no one does. I spent the time first, so, why doesn’t someone come along and correct it for everyone.

I’m sure it will help the community if you spread knowledge of exactly which is better and by how much.

Have you read my message?

Most important thing you are missing: running shot bonus damage can’t crit.

I made a spread sheet:

Save it as excel so you can edit and play with it.

My conclusion: Full Strength vs Full Dex are pretty much even when it comes to skill damage. The difference is minor on a boss mod with 457 defense and 200 crit res.

However, full dex is in danger of over capping on crit rate if there are any crit rate/dex party buffs.

Let me know if anyone finds something wrong with this, I wrote it up pretty quickly.

Edit: Running Shot definitely crits, after testing it. Changed it in the spread sheet. Full Strength still seems to be ahead.

Edit2: Added Kneeling Shot + Running Shot combination. Strength still wins despite Dex bonus on Kneeling Shot.

Edit3: Forgot Weapon Enhancement. Added.

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No Excel on this computer. Is it possible to upload it as a google sheets?

I think you can make a copy on google.

Also I would recommend open office. It should be able to open the downloaded excel format.

I just don’t want people messing with my version lol.