I’m still convinced that Barb is more suitable for Doppel than HL. However, HL3 will fit nicely with Fencer, especially how HL can scale in late game as well as cover Fencer weakness: Slash
Oh, this changes everything.
I have updated my calculations in my post above. Skull Swing is much, much better than Cleave now with this fact disclosed.
To anyone who doesn’t want to find it up there, here’s the quote:
High3>Barb1 for Doppel.
I’m already at Barb 3, almost Doppel.No choice, just go with the flow then.
And there is the attraction with Pelt. I’m trying to build another Fencer with HL3 as center. I have no idea why I couldn’t give up Pelt even though damage wise, putting Barb seems superior
Sword1>High3>Pelt1>Fenc3 seems good.
I’ve said it in another thread: Firstly I rejected completely the new Guardian, deleted my Pelt Swordy, and started this whole Highlander enterprise (I think it was worth it all) but -14% PATK is not THAT bad, after some calculations, and would recommend, yes.
That’s what I intend to build another Fencer, it’s decent. But my obsession with Pelt is really something, even I can’t explain it. No idea
i read the damage mechanics that bleed bonus goes first before def reduction so; (i added bleed because you put x2 on the equation)
skyline 5 + bleed + cleave: [((800+289)*2bleed - 506) * 1.5 cleave] * 2hits = 5016
about skull swing computation, i’m still wondering how def works on tos as im still bothered on @kradenmike4’s example
but i think skull swing still have greater damage, but its only a guess.
Fixed, thanks.
Yes, I still find that Skull Swing is better too.
The second and third pictures are what you’re looking at. Like I said, I’m not comparing the two as there will be times when one of them is more beneficial or in my case, both are beneficial as both of them are at my disposal. I probably misinterpret since it was just so direct and I apologize to everyone for deviating on this thread. There’s a difference of 2776 damage each hit in which spear lunge wins at this particular mob.
Let me post some test in a plate armor mob with all self debuffs:
11.6k in a plate armor with a slash damage is great.
My build: SW>HL3>BARB>FENCER
At this moment str/con char with 5 dex invested.
PS: Mob 9 lvls highter.
-14% PATK is pretty bad if Epee Stance applies to the crit multiplier instead of being a T1-4 modifier.
Say for example, 800 patk.
We can assume 0 def because of Attaque Coquille.
+10 Venier as the weapon
Sept Etoiles lvl 12 - 444 atk
Assume 100 str (100 crit atk)
Assume 50% attribute
VS a Leather target
Non-Crit damage:
(800+444+286) *1.5(attribute) *1.5(leather) *8 (hits) = 27,544 (3443~ per hit)
Crit damage:
{[(800+444) *1.5(crit multiplier)] + 286 + 100(crit atk)} *1.5 *1.5 *8 = 40,536 (5067 per hit)
With -14% from new Guardian:
800*0.86 = 688
Non-Crit damage:
(688+444+286) *1.5(attribute) *1.5(leather) *8 (hits) = 25,528 (3191~ per hit)
Crit damage:
{[(688+444) *1.5(crit multiplier)] + 286 + 100(crit atk)} *1.5 *1.5 *8 = 37,512 (4689 per hit)
Difference with and without Guardian:
Non-Crit: 2016 (7.32% less)
Crit: 3024 (7.46% less)
Now lets look Epee Stance and the preview pic:
Fencers will be able to use the “Epee Stance” skill in Circle 3. This
stance does come with its disadvantages, like neutralizing the effect of
any shields equipped, but on the other hand…
… the “Epee Stance” dramatically increases the critical damage of pierce attacks in proportion to the skill level.
Based on the pic, it looks like the fencer has a 400%~ crit multiplier instead our current 150%. Now, lets apply that to the damage formula again.
Crit damage:
{[(800+444) *4(crit multiplier)] + 286 + 100(crit atk)} *1.5 *1.5 *8 = 96,520 (12065~ per hit)
With Guardian:
Crit damage:
{[(688+444) *4(crit multiplier)] + 286 + 100(crit atk)} *1.5 *1.5 *8 = 88,456 (11057~ per hit)
Damage difference: 8064 (8.36%)
Now, lets take a look at the upcoming Transcendence System:
http://upload2.inven.co.kr/upload/2016/08/03/bbs/i10792272151.jpg
This is a +15 Didel Grand Cross, which should normally have 532-564 atk (644-676 with squire weapon buff). Transcendence lvl…3/4? Adds +60% atk modifier to the weapon, which brings it up to the amount that we see in the picture.
Now, imagine this much more patk all being reduced by 14% due to Guardian…is the reduction still going to be considered insignificant?
You seem pretty on the ball with the whole swordsman thing so i’d like to ask a question:
Whats a great two handed sword build including the damage buffs from http://pastebin.com/W15LTpjp but assuming we don’t get 0sec cooldown skyliner
S1>H3>B1>D2 ? and in what order do I take the Barb? Is it worth interupting the Highlander1-3 in order to take it quicker?
- Doesn’t need to win PVP
- Doesn’t ever need to do Earth Tower
- Doesn’t need to be desirable for Grinding Groups / Dungeon Groups
Just hitting things in the face, or walking three or four things together and hitting them all in the face, i’ll be doing PVP, ET and Groups on other character, this is just for me by myself.
once we get http://pastebin.com/W15LTpjp what skills are still a joke to be avoided because of bad animations or delays.
And is DEX even worth it? as STR gets better with more STR and DEX only gives you Effective Health from physical attacks where as CON gives you EHP against physical and magical, seems like without the Archer free crit for leveling up I might aswell go STR/CON and glug potions all day.
They’re all % modifiers, so although I know your point, I know what you’re trying to say, you got the same consistent reduction that I found myself here: 8% less damage overall.
It is a compromise? Yes. Was it better the way it always was? Yes.
Still I think this is a price that maybe be worth to be paid, for a class that can give you 18% Evasion, 25% HP, Aggression, and “panic” Shield-Buffs-Defense-Mode.
Finally then: I’m not picking it, mainly because I have other focus now, and this build I’m following (Sword1>High3>Cors1>Fenc3) really fits my play style.
That doesn’t mean I’ll fight against everyone who wants Pelt, they know about the tradeoffs and think that they’re more beneficial for them.
Cleave outdamage skull swing only for skills that have T0 modifier
since it’s calculate before defend reduction
it’s like Crit build vs Str build
Crit build will win coz str scale bad and get reduced by defend
Crit attack bypass defend and Many equip give free crit attack
You can get +300 crit attack from equip, with HL attribute can go +500
While full str give +600 and get reduce by defend
actually, STR builds are better than crit builds, now with STR buff its just better.
a lot of skills scale with STR, crown, cross guard, cros cut, on high level u can get a lot of crit from gear and as levels go higher, STR builds will be even better than DEX cus u get 10% STR/INT bonus each time u rank up, so u will have like 1200+ STR or 400-500 DEX
only cross cut that affect your damage from high str
wow +1200 ? with stat calculator it’s only give 630 ( 20 bonus point )
am i put wrong total stat point ? CMIIW
With gear you can get 70% crit
Physical attack increase from Gear and skill give more benefit to Crit Build
since higher rank provide higher damage so you get +50% more, and you get +Crit attack that get multiplied by attribute
lvl 600 rank 10. 1400 STR vs 600 DEX.
but the best thing will probably be high str with a bit of dex and con, but i have no idea whats the STR/DEX optimal ratio. i used to think that 137 dex (175 total), 74 con (100 total) and 103 str (256 total) was the best build, but i don’t want to use my only stat reset to test that
this numbers can give u around 325-350 crit rate with gear and mid level green gems or 400+ with more stuff
buuuuut, non-fencer evasion is useless high level and STR scales better with multihit skills, while DEX is better with high base dmg skills. look at doppel 3, thats pure multihit skills.
fencer will get a new stance that increase crit dmg so they can keep going high dex, but fencers will need to put some STR on higher levels too, once they have full upgraded gear and stuff.
and stat calculator isn’t applying the 30% bonus to STR dmg
EDIT: This trancendense system can chang things, cus if ur weapon get a super buff, dex can become a better stat cus u will have better base dmg overall, but we need to wait and see
aw level 600
Yeah you need 1.4k crit rate for 100% crit at level 600
+600 str only give +180 if 30% str apply
Why str better on multi hits ? isn’t the formula still same ?
Btw i compare this two build
if u go high DEX, u have low base dmg and high crit rate, so u depend on skill base dmg and multihit skills usually have lower base dmg due to being multihit, so ur STR apply in each hit, while u dont have high dmg to use with crit
if u pay atention, when they both have 10 stacks of DOV, they hit pretty much the same, but the second guy does 4k with crits, while the first guy does 4k without crit, and when he crits the dmg is around 7k.
buuuut that was BEFORE STR buff, see how he is right now:
and as u level up, u stack more and more STR while, if using DEX build, u sttll depend on skill dmg. and with multihit being the rule for high level, STR>DEX
Woops i tought he’s kTOS player lol
and i tought video that i mention before already after patch
with the new transcendense system, i think dex builds will still work well, probably will do almost the same dmg, with more evasion and accuracy (useless pve wise). but ur skills scale with STR and cross guard is really useful if u make it block everytime (lvl 15 and high STR) cus when u block, ur enemy cant move for 7-8 secs (can still atack), so u can just walk and hit from distance with ur 2h sword