Tree of Savior Forum

WIz C3 Quick Cast attribute breaking anything else

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#1

I know this is going to be a very unpopular suggestion, but the current Quick Cast attribute is too all encompassing with it’s 50%+ magic attack damage.

No other attribute gives a flat 50% damage increase across the board and this attribute alone means that every wizard who wants to DPS goes this route at the expensive of more diverse builds with Thau/Linker/Pyromancer potential possibilities.

Even Rune caster, a C6 class’s Rune of Ice does not work with AoE like quick cast does and that’s only applicable to ice magic and has a huge cooldown/cast time. Either take out the AoE affect or half the matk bonus as right now it relegates every other wiz build to non dps, completely defeating the combination possibilities and therefore point of the class system.

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#2

While this may be true at rank 7, before that most of other dps build out dps wiz 3 and support build is more popular than wiz 3 in party.

You are using 2 rank which you can go for better aoe damage with pyro, better party compatibility with linker, or better cc/burst with cryo and Kino. Its to be expected that wiz 3 must excel in something, which is dps in this game.

What’s the real problem now is rune caster being extremely underpowered compared to other rank 6 class.

#3

my point is no other damage buff skill in any of the other trees buffs AoE and DoT like this and it’s not even limited to just those skills. Why on earth should an attribute on a buff skill that can be practically up constantly with no drawback/skill required, be an exception.

There is a reason almost every flavour of DPS build has Wiz 3 and it’s not because people don’t like the alternatives, it’s simply this one attribute where people feel they have a broken build if they dont get it. Levelling to C4 isnt hard so that’s not a real excuse. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be able to do good DPS but why do they get an attribute, not even a separate skill, that buffs every other skill they have like no other circle in the entire line.

Linker got this exact nerf on the AoE point and that’s an entire 3 circle class dedicated to exactly this purpose. Why should the Wiz C3 attribute be safe :/?

If this attribute didn’t apply to AoE you would still have Wiz C3 but at the same time you’d have more Linkers, Thau and potentially chrono/Kino

#4

Wiz 3 is buffed for some reason. 2 rank for 50% damage increase may not even outdamage skill by the first 2 rank.

Linker is nerfed because the build before that is either you go linker or your build is useless.

Currently you only go wiz 3 if you want to go pure dps.

Asking wiz 3 to be nerfed because every dps go that route is like asking priest to be nerfed because every support go that route.

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#5


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#6

You’re missing the point. Changing the Quick Cast C3 attribute to be in line with Rune of Ice, Joint Penalty and all the other damage buff skills does not make Wiz C3 any less of a good choice for a DPS build. Leaving it alone as the sole AoE/DoT affecting buff with absolutely no situational requirement shuts everything else off.

Seriously why should Rune of Ice not affect Hail or Frost Circle and Quick Cast affect the damage?

#7

Rip pls let me dream that its useless because I didn’t went that route.

#8

I don’t know man, by calculation cryo Kino is dealing more burst damage compared to wiz 3. Pyro 2 is dealing more total damage compared to wiz 3. Linker is dealing more party damage compared to wiz 3.

Wiz 3 is only an easy to use dps because you need to cast less spell.

Rune of ice not working on aoe is probably a balance decision.

Unlike other class, wiz 3 is really useless once you take the 50% away, or nerf it.

#9

That is so ingenious! :joy:

#10

Eh? Only WIz C1 skills are useless bar sleep and we all get those. None of the C2/3 skills are useless.

Rune of Ice was the example i picked out but all the other offensive buffs exclude true AoE. The only real comparable is Thau’s swell magic arm and that costs 15 Skill points from Rank 4-6 to do practically the same thing a Wiz C3 can do with a single skill point and some attributes.

#11

Don’t forget that the 50% attribute by wiz 3 will not work on teammate, which is an even bigger factor.

#12

And you get 50% cast time instead which is supposed to be the real point of the skill. Solo focused vs party play focused with a difference of 15 skill levels? Also if you have more than 300 Matk, without doing the calculation, im guessing the 50% damage is better.

Let me put it to you another way. If the AoE component of Quick Cast was taken off so that it didnt work with the true AoE (so it would still work with electrocute, magic missile etc) would you not consider wiz c3 for any build, wouldn’t it have it’s own benefits still and situational uses just like practically every other combination?

#13

Nah, the 50% damage is not as much as many other spell you are missing by getting 2 other rank, calculated repeatedly by many in forum.

Yes, without aoe component, I won’t be considering wiz 3 at all. It had changed from dps to a joke class. Why would you need 50% cast time reduction when most of the time you are limited by CD and not casting speed? The only class affected by the casting speed is arguably rune caster. Most of the other class don’t have a long cast time to begin with.

You should remember that before the buff wiz 3 is already an unwanted class because of many other viable build, by nerfing it further it will just become a joke.

#14

I have to agree that quick cast’s main objective is to reduce the casting time, not giving a major damage boost that easily replaces pyro’s and thau’s buff. Lets face it, majority of players like seeing their own high damage instead of others

#15

That’s not exactly true. Maybe not everyone would go W3/E3/WL anymore but it would still be a damn good build and for Cryo/Ele Rune Caster builds DPS W3 would still most likely be the default. Also PvP wise there arent much better combos than W3/Kino 3.

#16

And that actually reduced the number of viable build.

It will not be the default because most will at most take wiz 2 for the sure spell. Linker is a much better choice than wiz 3.

There are too many aoe spell for wizard based class except maybe for the cryo Kino ice wall combo. Even kino’s PP is an aoe spell.

Also, please don’t ignore the fact that the 50% damage may not be as much as the firepower you lose by not picking other class. Yes, there maybe class with lesser buff but affect the whole party such as Thau, but you pick thau to be a support, not a dps machine.

#17

I just did some calculation, you are underestimating thau’s buff here. It increase your magic atack by around 700 (550 for physical) for someone using dagger.

Including your party members, that’s a 2750 to 3500 damage increase. You need to have at least 5k magic attack as a Wiz 3 to even touch this matk increase.

I don’t think wiz 3 can ever match up to that. Arguably you need to be thau 3 and the attribute is expensive, but its still crazily powerful, especially in a boss hunting party.

#18

There is so much speculation and bias in this thread it makes me sick…

1. The attribute is the only thing justifying Wiz 3, there is a reason no one goes Wiz 2. Things like Cast Speed and not being interrupted are nice, but not worth entire ranks. Simply put, anything less and both circles would be a joke. Well, circle 2 is still a joke, but circle 3 would be a joke too.

2. You can go pure DPS without going Wiz 3 as Pyro never actually falls off due to its multi hit nature and decent cooldowns. It just is a more sustained version of a pure DPS than all burst. Yes, Wiz 3 may eventually get better and better as more and more ranks are added, but that’s sort of the point.

3. There are still plenty of viable Wizard builds. Not everyone goes Wiz 3, and not everyone who goes Wiz 3 goes Ele 3.

4. I really need to drive this home, Wiz 2 offers so, so little. Like really, Wiz 2 is really, really bad. Wiz 3 needs to offer a lot to make up for Wiz 2. Magic Missiles and faster casting really just aren’t enough.

5. Steady Aim gives 45% dmg (unless they updated the patch notes or didn’t include a nerf in them) and yet not all archers go Ranger 3.

6. Rather than nerfing an option you think is the best currently, why not instead ask to buff other options to make them more appealing? The nerf mentality is a vicious spiral and no one wins in the end. Everyone ends up in a worse spot eventually, and for what? No one being allowed to have strong abilities? All classes should have an ability or two that really makes them stand out in how potent it is in its area of focus. Likewise, if there are abiliteis that just aren’t making the cut, push for buffs for them. Nerfs aren’t always, or even often, the best answer.

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#19

I still find 50% a big boost, but not broken. If rank8+ makes up for the sacrificed higher ranks for thau3’s major attack boost, I guess its toe to toe with wiz3? Except its a party buff, but not as strong as QC’s percentage attack boost, so its a trade off.

My thoughts, I always think I sound stupid when I try to speculate a skill .-.

#20

So you’re saying wizards who want to go DPS are getting a class that supports that (doing DPS), instead of one that supports your entire party? (thauma, linker)

I don’t see what the problem here is.

Wiz3 is not detracting from Wiz’s build choices AT ALL, there are top specs involving Linker, Cryo and Thauma (not sure why you even brought thauma up, since it’s rank4).

Pyro has potential, but honestly needs some touching up. Fireball needs to not be knockable by other people in pve, flare and hell breath need to not be completely useless - specially with hell breath being the c3 skill.