Tree of Savior Forum

With r8 coming, would this uncommon build change?

General Discussion
#41

Enchant Lightning does two things:

  1. Adds the Lightning property to melee and missile attacks.
    = deal more damage against Ice property targets, but less damage to Lightning and Earth (element damage modifier)
    = deal more damage against enemies under Joint Penalty (Joint Penalty attribute)
    = deal more damage against enemies frozen by a Cryomancer (Cryomancer class attribute)

  2. Adds [Skill Lv x 100] Lightning Property Attack
    = similar to what Arde would do for you
    = does not add an extra line

Since Enchant Lightning does not change the property of magic attacks, it should work with Rune of Ice

Ice Wall produces [Skill Lv + 1] blocks of Ice Wall
Each block of Ice Wall has an HP of [Skill Lv * 2]
Each hit on each block of Ice Wall shoots 3 shards
= (No. of blocks) (block HP) (shards per block)
= (Skill_Lv + 1) (Skill_Lv * 2) (3)

* note: (Skill_Lv + 1) part is also limited by your Psychic Pressureā€™s target limit

Lv.5 Ice Wall = 180 shards
Lv.7 Ice Wall = 336 shards

So using Audra would also help in damage since it allows more hits to come from Ice Wall PP, but itā€™s best to cast Ice Wall with Audra then switch to a higher DPS set (like Circle Rod + Arde) when casting Psychic Pressure

Each shardā€™s damage is an ice element magic attack based on your magic attack + elemental property attacks

Yes

Personally, I wouldnā€™t take Pyro1 with that build. I find that Cryo2 would bring more damage as it increases the hitcount of your IW-PP.

Lv.12 Ice Wall = 648 shards (with an 9-block limit from Lv.5 PP)

And these shards can be improved by Rune of Ice. Meanwhile, Fireballā€™s damage canā€™t be boosted by ROI and its ā€œshardsā€ shoot at different directions. To take advantage of the 8 ā€œshardsā€ from Fireball, you have to cast it on the boss (as mentioned in the Pyro-Kino thread)

If you just want to maximise Ice Shard damage, then go with

Wiz3 > Cryo2 > Kino1 > RC > Enchanter

4 Likes
#42

So it is 100% confirmed that Ice Shards (and likely Fireball shards) are dual-types and also count as Missiles?

If Ice/Fireball shards did not count as Missile types, I do not see how Enchanter should be able to boost the damage of shards.

Edit: Nevermind. You covered that in the first part of your post ^o.o^

#43

appreciate all the info, someone earlier had a similar theory with enchanter but we still cant confirm if it interferes with runecasters skills.

also someone earlier stated fireball gives better ice shard dps then cryo2 for r7. with the intent being for bossing only, i believe you agree with this since u said fireball only works against bossing due to irregular spray patterns yes?

is it safe to say theres no crazy builds likeā€¦ not even taking cryo2 or pyro1 and doing something weird like warlock2 or necro2 (again this being strictly for ice shard dps ONLY)

something likeā€¦ say take a random r7 class that does not affect ice shards whatsoever HOWEVER if you go c2 into that random class for r8 it would help ice shards soo much that cryo2 and pyro1 would be outclassed.

thanks for confirmation on ice shard dps depends on PP + magic attack. switching audra after ice wall sounds perfect idea.

alot of people have suggested sage, you have any opinion on this? is it just because sage would have nice dps (without affecting ice shards as much as cryo2) or is it because theres some sort of synergy with sage + ice shards that im not aware of.

looks like enchanter is back on the table, still hope to see if theres confirmation of enchanter + runecaster not interfering with eachother (strictly for ice shard dps of course)

#44

with the enchanter attribute dealing more damage to frozen enemies, wouldnt theyre be confusion on whether i shouldnt switch audra out during PP so that the enemy would be frozen easier? (also im not even aware if you can debuff bosses with the frozen debuff so this may only be a pvp thing)

#45

it basically comes down to

  • Having enough points into Icewall to maximize Ice shard dps
  • Having enough points into PP to hit the targets you need to hit

so basically Cryo C2 and Kino C2 are good.

PP ticks 30 times maximum, assuming no interruption.

Icewall hp is 30-34 max assuming Cryo C3 and Audra. You could gain +2 for Icewall gem and +2 more from Divine Might.

So Kino C2 Cryo C3 should be good enough, with +1 PP gloves and simply not bother with trying to hit the last Icewall tile.

After that, I guess Wiz C3 for consistent damage or RC + Enchanter for huge bursts.

Kino C1 + Cryo C2 with Audra is 648 shards. With Wiz C3 that is basically 972 shards worth of damage.

Kino C2 + Cryo C3 without Wiz C3 grants 30 hp Icewall tiles (Audra is not necessary here since PPā€™s maximum ticks should be 30-31). 303 = 90 shards per tile, and Kino C2 means 14 from PP targets, so 1490 = 1260 shards worth of damage which is around a 30% increase in dps over the Wiz C2 investment.

I know that Wiz provides Surespell, but since you can use Icewall at a distance and since most of the usage for Icewall is bossing where bosses will knock you down with most of their attacks, I think Kino C2/Cryo C3 is a better investment than keeping them at lower circles and investing in Wiz C3 instead.

Edit: Thatā€™s not to say that you canā€™t ever invest in Wiz C3. For sustained dps, Wiz C3 / Kino C2 / Cryo C3 might be good (aka Missions and Dungeon mobs).

But in terms of burst, I think Wiz / Cryo C3 / Kino C2 / RC / Enchanter has the most potential for Ice shard dps until R9 comes out.

#46

why not go wiz3>cryo2>kino2>runecaster and buy enchant from enchanters?

1 Like
#47

Enchanters can sell Enchant Lightning? Is that what Enchantment Bombs are?

Well if Enchant Lightning can be sold then that build you mentioned is obviously better. If not, then it becomes debatable. Higher base = Enchanter, higher multiplier = Kino2. Normally weā€™d be all for higher multipliers but I keep reading about the new monsters having really high defensive stats so Iā€™m not sure which oneā€™s better.

No, I disagree with it. What I meant was when you cast Fireball directly on the boss so that it takes all 8 sprays of the ball, which you donā€™t really do with IW-PP. Pyro-Kinos use their higher level Fireballs on the boss, then PP the boss with the Fireballs, allowing them to deal all these damage on the boss:

  • 2 Fireballsā€™ damage
  • Fireball burn debuff
  • PP damage
  • 16 sprays of Fireball per half second (which are each based on their Fireballā€™s damage with a 0.8 multiplier)

With the IW-PP build, you normally stay far away from the boss and the boss would only then be getting 1-3 sprays of the Fireball.

Thaumas and Enchanters are options if you want higher base damage. For Necro (dirty pole C3), you would have to give up RC so I donā€™t think itā€™s a good idea. Warlock would somehow let your IW-PP be a bit better for handing big groups of mobs. After killing a monster, you get to follow up with Invocation, but nothing directly for the ice shards.

Ice Shards donā€™t turn into Lightning property, they only get the +500 Lightning Property Attack. What I meant by Melee and Missile attacks are attacks that are classified as Melee or Missile (pretty much all physical attacks). This does not include PP (not melee), Ice Bolt (not missile), Magic Missile (not missile), or Ice Shards (not missile).

Also itā€™s actually pretty easy to Freeze targets with Ice Shards as long as they donā€™t have anti-CC buffs. You can even fan around (if you use mouse) with your IW-PP and keep targets at different places Frozen. Audra is still a good option for Freezing; but that would mean you get lower base damage, which is a huge deal for a high-multiplier skill such as this.

Bosses canā€™t be frozen

#48

I hate repeating myself, but does anyone know if Decay has an effect on Fireball and/or Icewall missiles? ^o.o^

If any Necros read this want want to test this with Fireball missiles, pm me and we can do some tests [Klaipeda]

#49

if i was c1 cryo c1 kino and did the ice wall combo, the ice wall would collapse before the PP duration ends right? so cryo2 would be more logical? you said cryo3 walls hit for 30-34 times but by what ive observed i always see the ice wall collapsing first before PP ends on cryo1 players.

also do you know if i was a kino2 that my PP ice shards could freeze AND stun with the PP attribute?

do you have any word on why people are recommending sage for this combo? is it because sage has nice skills in general or would they actually help at all for ice shard dps?

#50

appreciate everything thats been said. with every answer comes more questions though. hope im not being rude here.

are you saying that only magic attack and elemental damage affects ice shards? so the level of the ice wall and the level of PP doesnt matter? (it terms of the damage ticks)

ive only talked to one person about this, but they went pyro for r7 and said theyd recommend it over cryo2. may i ask if you have any personal experience with either of these builds? also the player i talked to didnt really use fireballs, he used some sort of fire trap skill that spurt out fire in 8 directions. cant seem to find what it was though

someone earlier stated pyro1 over cryo2 and that fireball dealt about 2x more ā€œticksā€ than cryo2 would. to me this makes sense. care to explain further why cryo2 would be better? if you dont mindā€¦ (also i thought people placed fireballs next to the ice wall not the boss for this combo to work?)

#51

can anyone confirm enchant lightning doesnt disable rune caster ice attributes?

#52

PP ticks every 0.5 seconds and lasts for 15 seconds, so PP has a maximum of 30-31 ticks (the extra tick is just a guess).

Icewall tiles, apparently, have Icewall skill level * 2 hp, so each level of Icewall means each tile can take 2 extra PP ticks.

At level 15 Icewall, each tile should have 30 hp, meaning they would last for all ticks of PP.

At level 10 Icewall, each tile would only have 20 hp. Even with Audra for +2 to Cryo skills, that would only mean +4 more hp per tile. PP would outlast the tiles because a full PP cast will have 6 more ticks left after the Icewall hp is gone.

I donā€™t personally have much experience with Icewall, but Iā€™d imagine that PP stun attribute only applies to enemies hit directly by PP and not indirectly by Iceshards.

Sage is good for Missile Hole (max) and Portal (level 1) for Cryokino. The Microdimension duplicate seems to only spawn Level 1 Icewall tiles, which means those tiles would only have 2 hp and only last for 2 PP ticks, so Sage doesnā€™t seem to be a good pick for boosting Cryokino dps. A Cryokino could go something else to improve Ice shard dps if they donā€™t care about Missile Hole.

#53

Yes. The damage coming from each shard is not affected by the level of PP or Ice Wall. The level of PP and Ice Wall only affect the number of shards that you can produce.

No I donā€™t have any experience of either a full [ Wiz3 Kino1 Cryo1 Pyro1 RC ] or of a full [ Wiz3 Kino1 Cryo2 RC ]. I have a [ Cryo1 Kino3 Sorc2 ] and a [ Cryo3 Kino2 Linker ], and Iā€™ve tried doing the Pyro-Kino-Linker build but deleted it.

Thatā€™s fireball

I was talking about the people who do Pyro-Kino builds, as in without Cryo. They take full advantage of all the spurts of Fireballs. Cryo-Pyro-Kinos do not take advantage of all the spurts from Fireballs because they cast from afar.

Cryo2 with Audra produces 648 shards. With RC thatā€™s like having 1944 shards.

Cryo1 Pyro1 with Audra produces 336 shards. With RC thatā€™s like having 1008.
Then you add 2 Fireballs in, each producing 8 spurts per tick.
= (2 Fireballs) (8 Spurts per tick)
= 16 spurts per tick

but they only stay for as long as your Ice Wall is up, after that you only get 2 more hits and they move out of your PP range
= (16 spurts per tick) (Ice Wall HP + 2)
= 256 spurts

But waitā€¦ These spurts arenā€™t focused on one direction and most likely, not even half are going to hit the boss. Also, youā€™ll need a PP Gem since thatā€™s already 10 targets. Otherwise youā€™ll lose even more damage to a Cryo2.

#54

Keep in mind that 290+ Monsters have high mdef and some bosses are completely resistant to ice damage.
Be prepared to deal 1 dmg with this build as you have increadible low base damage.

#55

Just become random fencer with 100% uptime debuff ignore piercing defense xD (works on boss too).

#56

thanks everyone for the amazing information

im sure this was already answered, but does the damage dealt from PP affect the damage that the ice shards do? (for instance lv1 PP vs lv15 PP)

going cryo2 for r7 thanks to all these replies, not sure if anything except cryo3 would be ideal for ice shard dps on r8, might just take sage considering it has good dps and would be nice to have while waiting for ice wall cooldown.

kino2 doesnt make much sense to me, not quite sure why thats on the table.

still looking forward to anyone that has any different statistics regarding pyro1 for r7. as ive seen one person take it ingame and they said its much better than cryo2. which counteracts everything posted here

#57

PP at Level 5 (Kino 1 max level) is 9 targets max

You would need Kino c2 to extend your maximum PP targets to 14

Kino C2 is preferred if you plan to go Cryo C3 (16 Icewall tiles max)

If youā€™re only planning on going Cryo C2 (11 Icewall tiles max), then you would only need Kino C1 and get a PP gem ^o.o^

#58

ah i see now! so PP cant attack all cryo2 ice wall tiles

i get it thanks!

#59

would PP even be able to hit more than 6 ice tiles at once anyways? it seems to have a small hit detection

#60

would anyone know if all cryo2 ice wall tiles can be hit at once with PP? or is there a specific setup needed to that once half are gone you can simply move your arrow keys to finish off the rest?