Will ToS suffer from Black Desert and Blade and Soul?

[Nirimetus]

ArcheAge was due to the publisher, it has nothing to do with the game. And you never know if this happens with ToS regardless of the quality of the game.

Indeed, i do have faith on ToS for the future, i always say this, unless IMC come here and kick the tent and destroy our expectations.

If the combat was more spammy and fast paced and there were more cooler novel skills, I’d reckon ToS combat would be kidna innovative.

Isn’t it enough spamming? I mean, at the last 2 days i made a new wiz, Wiz C1 > Pyro C2 Linker C1 and reached around level 105, i had lots of fun and i only used the basic attack to finish off enemies with less than 2% HP. Now imagine that at higher levels on other circles, more skills, less basic attacks, unless you run dry of SP.

I disagree. In fact, both BDO and B&S are well known as compare to ToS. Many NA guilds are promoting these two. Regardless of people liking them, when their guilds are heading towards them, they will take a look. And for those NA people look for games in a community, you can find both BDO and B&S in http://www.enjin.com/recruitment/ for recruitment, as this tells you they are more popular among NA market.

You aren’t seeing the big picture there, first of all, its a community promotion, but lets leave that out for now, now about guild recruit, its all nice and fun but when they hit a point in game and if the game doesn’t proportionate the right amount of fun you will see a dying game.

If you play BnS for ranked arena you don’t need gear tho, just the skill points from max level (some upgrades from skill tree are dropped from dungs, but you can be carried or buy them too).

Already failed right from the start, lol, why the ■■■■ i want to be carried? Would be more easy use a BOT to do that, if the game doesn’t give me fun why should i bother playing? About PvP, i’m not much into it, it’s just me so i really don’t bother with it.

Pretty much all classes have a heavy different playstyle too. (something like… Under Night In-Birth characters I guess. Obvious and powerfull unique strenghts, while you try to play around with your char.)

Yeah i get what you mean, but what we started questioning was the innovation on combat, i mean, C9 have the same thing, the only difference is that the areas are instanced or more like a dungeon crawl hack’n slash. Rusty Hearts had the same thing, except the PoV was different, was like side scrolling or something similar.

Since the last KR patches, I am afraid ToS is going to the wrong side of the force…

Again, people talking about something that is happening under some publisher, it doesn’t mean it will happen here, as you know, ours, and their versions are different in some ways, other thing is, the content (not core content) will be a bit different imo.

[nightrain_scy]

ToS still has a massive deposit of ex-RO players, so no worry about that.
for me as example, we still have a RO guild group which still stay active friendship, we are all now busy adult that did not play any other game,
but yet, we still see ToS as a re-gather opportunity, I think same for many others.
With disappointing Maple Story 2, it could also draw the players base to ToS as well.
For Casual players, I think only 1 choice which is ToS, regardless how many flaws it has.

For Uber players, I think they always have a choice.
There are countless of Uber Graphic and Features game that keep coming.

[Indeed]

ToS still has a massive deposit of ex-RO players, so no worry about that.

Where do you live? North America or Europe?

[zetsuei13]

I love how people pretend to know what they’re talking about when ALL games are in beta phases atm, or just about to come out. All this comes down to is “Die hard fans of RO” who will defend ToS to the bitter end, personal preference, and people that understand “Bad companies.” who would rather invest time into something else.

As you can see from Nando20xx he will find ANYTHING and everything! to defend ToS because it’s his ‘type’ of game. I’ve played all 3 games (BnS, BDO, and ToS) and from MY preference I can already tell ToS will get boring for me in the first month. Why? Because it’s not RO imo, it’s far from what I liked/remember from my RO launch days, minus the combat, which is still very satisfying. I note I played RO for many years before the rollbacks by Gravity, that was the last straw for me.

Games like BnS and BDO have their own unique styles, and anyone who says differently is just being a fanboy or girl of their own favorite styled game (ToS). BnS is mostly based around it’s unique combat FOR PVP, it’s a tit for tat style pvp combat, which is appealing to many pvpers. BDO is again unique in it’s combat style, and beauty, but it is mostly a siege game kinda like GuildWars, and Aion; again more of a PVP game with PVE elements mixed into it. I will also add BDO has one of the most polished character creations currently out, as there is no game out that can actually mimic the look of humans as closely as BDO does. http://kotaku.com/famous-celebrities-recreated-in-stunning-mmo-1671136546 And thats only a few examples, there are thousands out now in Korea. If you actually played the game, and say the character creation is comparable to games that came out 7+ years ago, you’re just being ignorant.

In the end the only way we will know if a game is a success or not is after the “OFFICIAL” release in it’s current regions, and the fan bases that follow “their” favorite games. Games like Lineage is still considered one of the best games in Korea, and still brings in a large amount of revenue. I personally will stick to my FFXIV for my PVE enjoyment, as I enjoy that game, and play some B&S for the PVP which I find very enjoyable now that Aion is no longer a game I enjoy.

A new game, or new patch will ALWAYS foreshadow current games out. That’s why thousands, even millions go into advertisement. When releasing something to the public, it’s all based around the “hype”. ToS hasn’t really produced a lot of hype around it’s game yet, and will most likely fall short of current games/patches coming out if they don’t improve in that department, and with all the current issues between international CBT’S and the current state of KToS, it’s not painting a pretty picture. ToS will suffer from itself more, than because of another game.

P.S. Just thought I would add this, since it goes with the last bit I was talking about with ToS. They randomly announced a grand opening for the game with the cash shop, while it still has a ton of bugs, and issues (in Korea) http://steparu.com/latest-news/1941-tree-of-savior-online-kr-surprise-grand-opening

[Snoball]

For me, the only other game competing with TOS in my own mind is Peria Chronicles.

[Nirimetus]

As you can see from Nando20xx he will find ANYTHING and everything! to defend ToS because it’s his ‘type’ of game. I’ve played all 3 games (BnS, BDO, and ToS) and from MY preference I can already tell ToS will get boring for me in the first month.

Its your opinion, as is mine, i said on one of my posts, i prefer Isometric View games over 1st or 3rd person, i’m not defending ToS, i do have faith this game will hold my interest in the future, i hate RO, never liked the clunk movement, community wise, never had good experience, i think the one who don’t know what are talking about here is you, we are talking about combat system innovation, as i said, BnS don’t have any, what they have is a better version of what C9 already have, i can’t say a thing about BDO since i never played, if ToS will be boring for you on the first month, too bad, it is not your cup of tea and no one have a thing to do with it except yourself, if i love the game, its my cup of tea and no one have a thing to do with it, simple as that, i’m not pushing my preferences to anyone here, neither having others preference being pushed on me.

P.S. Just thought I would add this, since it goes with the last bit I was talking about with ToS. They randomly announced a grand opening for the game with the cash shop, while it still has a ton of bugs, and issues (in Korea) http://steparu.com/latest-news/1941-tree-of-savior-online-kr-surprise-grand-opening

I don’t see what is surprising, lots of games do that since its under a publisher, the publisher don’t care about the bugs, they will report to the developer so they can deal with it, the publisher want the money they can get from put the game on, they need to pay what they waste (equipament, energy bill, etc…).

[zetsuei13]

Its your opinion, as is mine, i said on one of my posts, i prefer Isometric View games over 1st or 3rd person, i’m not defending ToS, i do have faith this game will hold my interest in the future, i hate RO, never liked the clunk movement, community wise, never had good experience, i think the one who don’t know what are talking about here is you, we are talking about combat system innovation, as i said, BnS don’t have any, what they have is a better version of what C9 already have, i can’t say a thing about BDO since i never played, if ToS will be boring for you on the first month, too bad, it is not your cup of tea and no one have a thing to do with it except yourself, if i love the game, its my cup of tea and no one have a thing to do with it, simple as that, i’m not pushing my preferences to anyone here, neither having others preference being pushed on me.

I guess the BOLD Italic was not enough for you… and I quote. [quote=“zetsuei13, post:44, topic:126170”]
As you can see from Nando20xx he will find ANYTHING and everything! to defend ToS because it’s his ‘type’ of game.[/quote] and you just prove my point even more… by going on some rant about everything I just finished discussing in my post. You should read first carefully before responding to every single post someone makes, you just make yourself out to look like a moron.

C9 combat is nothing like B&S. Blade and Soul is a reactive combat system, with a point system for your skills used. You don’t just press a single button, and a massive skill goes off, and you wait for it to come back up. You’re constantly switching between dodging, parry, and blocking skills to counter skill, or combo. You never press a skill, and just wait for an animation to complete, then wait for a cooldown. So perhaps you should actually play the game longer than 10mins before talking at ALL.

If you can judge a games combat system with 2-4 skills on your bar vs endgame with 20+ skill, just shows YOUR ignorance, and shouldn’t even be playing a game as complicated as B&S anyways, stick to your 4 skill games, trust me it saves us a lot of trouble having bad players such as yourself in a harder game.

I might as well finish this… since you decide to quote the last part as well… and I quote again [quote=“nando20xx, post:46, topic:126170”]
I don’t see what is surprising, lots of games do that since its under a publisher, the publisher don’t care about the bugs, they will report to the developer so they can deal with it, the publisher want the money they can get from put the game on, they need to pay what they waste (equipament, energy bill, etc…).
[/quote] Like I said, even when the game puts out a cash shop with hairstyles that cost $30 you’re still going to defend the game, and company although it’s clear they’re looking to cash grab. (which means the game will not last) Look at Trions history for their cash grab games.

Well enough wasted time here, I know you will have some ridiculous retort that I will not waste more time responding to, good day, I gave my piece towards the situation and the OP’s question.

[Satoru]

Already failed right from the start, lol, why the ■■■■ i want to be carried? Would be more easy use a BOT to do that, if the game doesn’t give me fun why should i bother playing? About PvP, i’m not much into it, it’s just me so i really don’t bother with it.

I said that because there are a lot of people that only play it for PvP. There are also people who play for the PvE, tho the minority. Well, even me being a PvP player find some high level dungeons interesting.

[quote=“nando20xx, post:41, topic:126170”]
Yeah i get what you mean, but what we started questioning was the innovation on combat, i mean, C9 have the same thing, the only difference is that the areas are instanced or more like a dungeon crawl hack’n slash. Rusty Hearts had the same thing, except the PoV was different, was like side scrolling or something similar.
[/quote]BnS has nothing to do with C9, Rusty Hearts, Dragon Nest, Kritika or the like. It is not a hack ‘n’ slash game (doesn’t even have flinch), nor a target ‘n’ smash button game like the usual MMORPG, but something in between-ish (very “ish”).

Idk how you came to the conclusion that the combat works the same as those since you even played the game yourself, since even in the tutorial you learn how different it is.

[quote=“Indeed, post:40, topic:126170”]
I think it is pre-mature yet, but I certain worry how this game is trying to make some quick money before game mechanism are done properly. They are already in OBT when the skills are not properly function, let alone balancing the skills. It is really a big concern, but the good thing is, they are listening to suggestion.
[/quote][quote=“nando20xx, post:41, topic:126170”]
Again, people talking about something that is happening under some publisher, it doesn’t mean it will happen here, as you know, ours, and their versions are different in some ways, other thing is, the content (not core content) will be a bit different imo.
[/quote]I am not talking about the token thing or anything cash related.
One thing that really pissed me was how they kept nerfing the Klaipeda teleportation stone. Which is now just a bad “debug” item instead of something that was usefull and practical.

How IMC said on their last “feedback” that they don’t care if some classes are “useless”, as long as people pick them for roleplaying.
How IMC said they don’t care if the game is bad, as long as they get a few hundreds of players online. And I mean by bad decisions, not the genre/gameplay being niche.

It will probably take a long time for them to fix CC issues in both PvE and PvP, if they ever do it. And also for overall class balance in damage, SP costs and CD (new vs old skills).

Nothing of that is related to the publisher.

[Nirimetus]

I guess the BOLD Italic was not enough for you… and I quote.

zetsuei13:
As you can see from Nando20xx he will find ANYTHING and everything! to defend ToS because it’s his ‘type’ of game.

and you just prove my point even more… by going on some rant about everything I just finished discussing in my post. You should read first carefully before responding to every single post someone makes, you just make yourself out to look like a moron.

Ah sorry about the confusion there, since i’m using dark CSS on the forum the bold barely appear as bold so i didn’t noticed.
Indeed it is my type of game, but what i meant by not liking 1st or 3rd person games is because of the generic approach most companies do, so i do lost interest on those fast.[quote=“zetsuei13, post:47, topic:126170”]
Like I said, even when the game puts out a cash shop with hairstyles that cost $30 you’re still going to defend the game, and company although it’s clear they’re looking to cash grab. (which means the game will not last) Look at Trions history for their cash grab games.
[/quote]
Its not a question of defending, its the way things goes, as i said, i do have faith ToS go a different way, but if they go the same way Nexon is going on KR then my money they won’t see, the dollar cost 4x my own country currency and i don’t ■■■■ money to be wasting on bytes more than i already wast on my internet service.

I said that because there are a lot of people that only play it for PvP. There are also people who play for the PvE, tho the minority. Well, even me being a PvP player find some high level dungeons interesting.

Ah i get that, there are some games out there that have the same, indeed its a thing that goes from person to person, i prefer PvE, PvP is not much my cup of tea, but even so, if a game goes that way, it still losing lots of money, i mean, adopting only one side of the coin is not really the way to do business.

I am not talking about the token thing or anything cash related.One thing that really pissed me was how they kept nerfing the Klaipeda teleportation stone. Which is now just a bad “debug” item instead of something that was usefull and practical.

I got what you meant there, but since @Indeed mentioned the CS opening i put that on, and it is as usual, publishers always look for a way to get some money.

About the bugs, i do hope they fix those, if not, the game for sure will die before even release.

How IMC said on their last “feedback” that they don’t care if some classes are “useless”, as long as people pick them for roleplaying.How IMC said they don’t care if the game is bad, as long as they get a few hundreds of players online. And I mean by bad decisions, not the genre/gameplay being niche.

Was this one from that interview someone translated here on forum? If not can you post the link so i can read it?[quote=“Satoru, post:48, topic:126170”]
It will probably take a long time for them to fix CC issues in both PvE and PvP, if they ever do it. And also for overall class balance in damage, SP costs and CD (new vs old skills).
[/quote]
Yeah, and not only that but some classes balance also, i still hope they do something about Sorc being a SP sponge.

Nothing of that is related to the publisher.

Bug fix there’s nothing to do with publishers, but they have to at least report to the developer.

[Indeed]

I am not talking about the token thing or anything cash related.One thing that really pissed me was how they kept nerfing the Klaipeda teleportation stone. Which is now just a bad “debug” item instead of something that was usefull and practical.

How IMC said on their last “feedback” that they don’t care if some classes are “useless”, as long as people pick them for roleplaying.How IMC said they don’t care if the game is bad, as long as they get a few hundreds of players online. And I mean by bad decisions, not the genre/gameplay being niche.

It will probably take a long time for them to fix CC issues in both PvE and PvP, if they ever do it. And also for overall class balance in damage, SP costs and CD (new vs old skills).

Nothing of that is related to the publisher.

I guess IMC does not care for the classes due to lack of control. I believe it has to be Nexon who decides on game balance and such. I think IMC has listened the feedback and pass to the developers, but I wish they also have people actually experience the game and provide their opinion that matches the feedback.

But we shall see. I am not surprised it may take a year to make those improvement, as we are only in the stage of making the game “works”.

I love how people pretend to know what they’re talking about when ALL games are in beta phases atm, or just about to come out.

I think those games are closer to release, as they have their core features tested. It is more a marketing for them to name Beta.

Meanwhile ToS is more at Alpha stage. Perhaps a year ahead of Star Citizen, but not all core features are implemented.

[Nirimetus]

I guess IMC does not care for the classes due to lack of control. I believe it has to be Nexon who decides on game balance and such. I think IMC has listened the feedback and pass to the developers, but I wish they also have people actually experience the game and provide their opinion that matches the feedback.

But we shall see. I am not surprised it may take a year to make those improvement, as we are only in the stage of making the game “works”.

In all honesty, i think we won’t see any balance or major fixes until the tests hit the char max levels, what i mean is, we barely reach half way through the world map, actually we didn’t even reached there yet, but i wouldn’t mind they doing the fixes and balances during the process.

[victor_missa20]

that’s sounds awesome, to bad i will only play this game in 10 year

[cosx774]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Indeed]

There’s been many cases where a game or mmorpg doesn’t do well at the start, but then becomes very profitable after updates and etc etc.

No, there is not many cases. How many can you name in the past 10 years?

Cheap generic games like BDO & BnS can cause a splash with their le state of the art looks and so called le innovations, but they’ll die out very quickly on the other hand (maybe im being harsh on BnS though) because the space they exist in is pretty competitive and it’s easy for new games to kill them off quickly, or more often the underlying content and gameplay loop to get dull and boring.

Please don’t be bias just to put ToS at a higher place in saying other games are cheap, and it is more about end game content, which ToS has little with the same theme as “grinding” along with those 2 games. I am not sure about B&S, but BD has GvG, yet, ToS does not have it yet. Which to me, ToS is still in Alpha stage, they are clearly rushing it.

[cosx774]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Indeed]

You seem like the type of person who gets desperate to win in a debate and ■■■■, so I won’t bother responding.

Basically I’m right and you’re wrong.

That is fine if you feel you are right on your own. This was never a debate, as you never prove your point. It is more of an opinion from your responses, which there is no right or wrong for a person’s interest.

[quote=“cosx774, post:55, topic:126170”]And you didn’t read my post at all it seems like.
[/quote]

The only thing I read is this game will improve.

1. You are expecting the other game won’t improve?
2. You are expecting no other new potential game?
3. You are expecting the game will improve in a good way?

The fact I am giving is, this game in the current stage is not comparable to BDO, as I make my point in GvG.

[Excellence]

No. How about you ANSWER the question posed as to which games within the past 10 years have succeeded after getting off to a “slow start”.

I’ll wait.

After reading this thread, it’s become quite apparent that yourself, @nando20xx and multiple other kiddies seem to not get the big picture at hand with TOS and other MMOs. Many people in my generation and close to it with a decent level of intellect understand how MMOs work and how they AREN’T working today. These days, you are rarely paying for an actual MMO and are actually paying for HYPE. This is a result of crony, unchecked capitalism infiltrating gaming in the mid 2000’s as well as infiltration of Media and bank payouts from companies that “rate games” based on bias rather than actual gameplay. In single player games, it’s easier to fix because you can either return the game or someone on the PC version of said game will drop a mod to make the game better…but for MMOs, thus isn’t the case.

So a few things here:

-TOS is an awesome CONCEPT that I WANT TO SEE PROSPER but there’s a possibility that it won’t. And quit blindly defending it like a bunch of idiots. The coming possible attackers to TOS within the next few months will be Blade And Soul, Black Desert, and The Division…and later on, Star Citizen, Lineage Eternal, and Lost Ark. I’ve played 4 of the 6 of those games…(the Alpha of SC and the Alpha of The Division on XBOX One…still waiting for the PC Beta here soon), and I will tell you that they ALL are MUCH more polished than TOS. Blade And Soul may be dated but still scales with a high end gaming system such as mine in terms of graphics. The asshat who said “BnS is just like C9” needs to find better hobbies than licking ice off of windows, clearly; they are NOT EVEN REMOTELY SIMILAR. Blade and Soul is a twitch-based combat system more similar to Street Fighter and Soul Calibur due to its blocks, counters, frames, interrupts, and setups. You don’t have that in a hack and slash like C9. The intricacies are simply not there. Black Desert is for the more mature gamer and by that merit, blows TOS out of the water with a satellite-mounted railgun in its current state. Black Desert sports INSANE levels of graphic and audio fidelity…simply the best out there. (If you have a good gaming PC, turn the game up on max and use either HD headphones with a soundcard or 7.1 speakers…). The economy and work systems with node management are TOP NOTCH. The game lets you become a skilled worker in multiple different fields but doesn’t detract from gameplay. It also sports a very intuitive conversation vs NPC system for gaining quests and knowledge. The battle in Black Desert is also incredibly fun and doesn’t dull out. Both Blade And Soul and Black Desert have minimal levels of bugs that will crash your game or cause you to reinstall.

-TOS is failing from multiple shady marketing decisions from Nexon…which doesn’t surprise. Korean companies in general have a problem with economic management of their games…(really don’t get me started here). I HOPE AND PRAY IMC doesn’t follow in the same footsteps here in the West buttttt, we have an issue here where kiddies with no real world experience are fine with being served mediocrity and don’t do anything about it…BUT DEFEND IT. We’ll see how that cookie crumbles - But when people check you on defending heavily trash things about TOS, don’t sit there and blindly fire back needles. They may be trying to enlighten your perspective so you don’t end up tunneling yourself into the game’s demise in the coming months.

-TOS has by far, some of the largest amount of bugs and optimization issues I’ve seen out of any MMO to date. I think the closest was…Space Cowboy? Lol. Someone like myself with a very high end system shouldn’t be getting frame spikes because the game still doesn’t know how to utilize multiple cores…yet it’s common knowledge that MMOs are more processor dependent. The level of bugs between quests, translations, skills, items, trading, even chatting and adding friends is just ridiculous but yet in the East, Nexon seems to think the game is ready so they’re already Cash Shopping. <----This is a marketing tactic. This is Socialist gaming and is fairly similar to the asshatery that Bungie pulled on people when they dropped Destiny. Fairly soon, you’ll see changes like “leveling zones being p2p” or needing to pay for certain class tokens or some dumb crap of that nature which are features that SHOULD BE IN THE GAME ALREADY but now they’re monetized.

Don’t fall for the hype.

We all love TOS here, (I sure do), but you can’t love without acknowledging flaws. Glaring flaws.

And quit with the immature kiddy sht, you might learn something.

[cosx774]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[cosx774]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Excellence]

I should’ve figured you lacked the fortitude to actually make a constructive reply. You can’t even post a source and yet, you expect those countering your argument are too dumb to render in their own MMO experience.

You also utilized an allusion to “WoW” from BDO and BNS. Lol.

Discussion over.