Tree of Savior Forum

Why is okay to be super racist about BR?

General Gameplay Game Tips and Strategies
#171

Haha this is funny! A quick recap:

"I CAN’T STAND THOSE BR’S KSING ME :’( " (from: Another topic in this same forum).

In the same topic, americans, europeans, saying that they too like to KS people because it’s fun, also, the owner of the topic couldn’t prove that the player(s) who ks’d him was, in fact, a BR (Also, can ANYONE prove it? Judging by the nickname it’s the only way, and that’s not a very good way to know it.).
BR Racism +1

BR USE CHEATS!! I CAN’T STAND IT!! (From: A brainless ape)

Team Fortress 2 Cheat
Any game Cheat
Hahaha that’s the BEST part! The TF2 cheat was banned, but in the past, it costs 20 USD.
The other one (I selected the CS:GO cheat) costs 20, 40 or 60 USD.
Now, let’s see… The minimum wage here in Brazil is R$880,00. (IF you’re a full time worker, let’s say that the age of most BR players are 14-25 years old, and in this age, people are still studying (or JUST working), so maybe 80% of those players are students, so they can’t work full time, and if they work, will be as an intern, that SOMETIMES can be payed (Yeah!! Most of interns here in Brazil work for FREE!!), or they work as a part-time worker (And recieve like… R$ 400,00).
Now, we take the price of those cheats, and convert the Dollar to Real (our type of currency), and let’s see… Oh! Would you look at that? The TF2 cheat costs R$70,00 and the other ones are R$70,00; R$140,00; and R$210,00.
WHATAFUCK? Who wants to spend TWO HUNDRED JUST TO USE A CHEAT? You earn 880 to spent 210 IN A ■■■■■■■ GAME. No one is THAT stupid (Ok, some are, but…).
Saying that BR’s are the biggest cheaters in the games it’s just stupid, we can’t even pay our bills, so WHY would we spent THAT MUCH in a game? Of course, all rules have exceptions, and this is no different.
BR Racism +1

OH!! BUT WHAT ABOUT THE “BOLETO” ISSUE ON STEAM??? YOU CHEATERS!

Oh yeah, you mean the issue that was STEAM’s FAULT? The “Issue of payment method in Brazil (boleto)” was such a stupid thing. But I think one thing must be considered: If that issue happened in ANY other country, ANYONE would take advantage from it (Yes!! Including the ALL MIGHTY AND SAINT FREE-FROM-SIN AMERICANS). I do think that the people who abused this issue MUST BE BANNED, but what can we do? We can’t blame 10000000 people just because 100 did something wrong.
BR Racism +1

Besides all of that, I do understand some complains.

  1. We Brazilians, are kinda childish, we think that a game it’s just a game, to have fun, but, in competitive games (such as CS, League of Legens, DOTA), we take it VERY serious, and we rage, OHH HOW WE RAGE! So I do understand that some of MMO Non-competitive players rage because THEY take the game serious, so I don’t blame them to be pissed off on BRs.
  2. I recognize that we tend to troll. And that’s because most of BR’s think they ARE the best, it’s a social thing, brazilians likes to undervalue people for no reason, that’s why they troll, it’s like: 'HAHAHA I’M SO COOL, I PICK ON PEOPLE IN INTERNET AND THEN I’LL TELL MY FRIENDS AND THEY WILL THINK THAT I’M COOL HAHAHA, AEUAUAEHUAEHUAE I’M FUNNY LOL". So they just do this because they think they’ll be cool.
  3. I do agree that English IS a international language, and I think that we need to only speak english (specially in the Shout-Chat), it is an ethic issue. BUT, we can’t be mad about people who can’t speak it, so try to communicate in a way he/she will understand! After all, it is a INTERNATIONAL server… So…

Also, I don’t have any right to point fingers here, I’m a racist as well, I play DOTA2 and I HATE spanish people in my server. But WHY would I, IN EVERY GAME THAT A SPANISH GUY PLAYS WITH ME, rage or offend him? There’s no NEED to, I would end ruining his day or the moment of break from job/study/wtv. So… just think of it. I’ve tried not to “STAND BY MY COUNTRY IN THIS HEATED DISCUSSION”, but just to show to some of you that you’re just accusing most of BR’s for being toxic because of the “HEUHEUEHUEHUE BR BR” meme.

2 Likes
#172

I was trying my best to not get into this topic because I can’t really see a point in this entire thing but meh, you’re really complaining about how people talk in public chats (aka normal chat)? I would totally understand your points if they were using a party chat - in case you’re doing dungeon runs with randoms - or shout/world chat, but public chat? It makes no sense to me, actually it sounds pretty stupid, as for your example, when you’re on the streets and someone is yelling jajaja/wkwkw/huehue, you just move to another place, because that’s what anyone with a brain would do.

#173

I don’t wanna be “that guy” but this is neither a Game tip or Strategy like the section says. Try not to post random topics anywhere on the forums. Post it in appropriate sections. There seems to be a lack for forum mods to do this for us.

#174

The mainstream pressure from the political correctness will stop these people from being racists towards some groups, but they will always find a way to be racist towards some other groups. Thats why.

And before you say it, if they were worried about a language barrier or some bad behavior this would obviously not take this extremist and racist position. Theres no way communication issues and problems that don’t even happened in the game would make someone that is not racist go to these extremes. Truth is that a huge portion of americans have this tendency to be racist.

#175

bláblá kids talking bláblá kids talking nem li ó… Vai Curíntias!

#176

Okay, to be more clear. You know you don’t even have to be from Brazil to go through Steam Brazilian store and do that, right? They put the example where most of the sales came from, which shame on IMC as a company by doing so, but still just shows how people are terrible at gathering information on their own and just because a nationality is mentioned they say it’s from there.

Well, SA server just opened, let’s see who keeps most bots and gold sellers, but my guess will be Klaipeda and Orsha :wink:

#177

I really don’t know if you’re just trolling me by now, or if you don’t get anything of what I write, but something is terribly wrong here. I wish someone else could give me some light of wherever my writing is that bad or if you are just skipping through what I write and drawing weird conclusions.

My examples are not of things only BR’s do. Is things I see pretty much every player around doing.

you will not have a hard time to find BR blaming BR behavior and culture, it’s more common than not for BR to look down on its own
culture in favor of NA and EU.

This is a cultural issue, in and out of internet, BRs look down on their own culture, that is my point here, so it is no surprise BRs will bash BRs people in the internet as well. What I’m trying to get through here, is that is far more easy to find BRs that will complain about another BR behavior just because it is a BR, while not caring when the same thing is done by europeans or north americans.

THAT is when the list of things come from, I meant them as things pretty much every culture does, and still, if a BR sees that kind of behavior outside of BR, it would go like, “Oh I bet that guy is from Brazil, such bad manners”.

All of this is in response to this

While quite paradoxical we are indeed a close knit group, on the other hand, most BRs more worship than reject european and american culture.

I’m not changing my point, I’m not saying those reasons ( the ones I listed ) are why we get targeted, I’m saying we are highly likely to target ourselves for any bad behavior even when there’s no reason to believe the person/player is a BR. And I’m pointing out behaviors I’ve seen throughout cultures just as much as in ours. That’s why the comparison with the german stigma, is not that they are racists, but they are more likely to judge themselves racists over things other cultures wouldn’t care about, this is due the past war. BRs will assume lack of good manners/culture on another BR, or project his on nationality in people they deem ignorant, due to a certain despise for his own culture in favor of another.

What I’m tackling here is the concept that BRs do not want to socialize, I’m saying they just can’t more often than not BECAUSE of language barriers, and therefore, yeah they seek other BR players.
A lot of the complains here resolve around BRs speaking PT in open chats, I really don’t see the problem there. I wouldn’t get mad if ppl were talking Chinese or wherever. As for cheating/hacking complains, it is just easier to spot a BR in place of most other cultures, after all you never know you played with a BR if he speaks EN all the time unless you actually make the question.

I hope I could make it through this time. By the way I really mean no offense, but I wouldn’t expect a teenager to grasp the social aspect of this whole point, if this is the case. I know back then I would probably not.

#178

Wow seriously, if you would just read what your write.

Your initial claim:

BR is a strong knit group, but BR look down upon BR as well.

This argument was made to disagree that BRs do not succumb to Americanization / Globalization, I presume.

Then you continued to argue:

BRs don’t socialize because they can’t speak English

Therefore the conclusion of your argument is that:

  • BR is a strong knit group but isn’t a strong knit group (because they look down upon themselves) (???)
  • BR look highly upon American / Western culture, presumably they want to socialize and assimilate, but they can’t because:
  • They can’t speak English

In essence, BRs can’t speak English and the online community prejudice against them.

Which is obviously wrong. Because as you have contradicted yourself, BRs look down upon BRs (same reason of the online community) not because they can’t speak English, but because they have these behaviors:

Now to save your ass from your own contradictions you make a claim:

Which may or may not be true, but people do not naturally associate negative behavior to other communities probably because:

  • Jerks from other communities do not self identify. (i.e. Hue hue hue, learn to play the game, while KS / harassing players)
  • A much smaller representation of Jerks from other communities

lol what? What has that to do with the current topic? So because BR blame BR so the world blames BR? That doesn’t make even a bit of logical sense.

Here, your logic fails me.

Wrong. BRs (that get targeted) DO NOT want to socialize, they troll, harass, abuse, spam and be a general a-hole, AND self identify as a BR. That is the reason why they get ostracized easily, and no one seems to care to defend them.

As I’ve said before:

I’ve even played with people who used GOOGLE TRANSLATE to attempt to communicate and cooperate in game.

Don’t give me that BS that they can’t speak English so they can’t socialize so don’t blame them for BAD BEHAVIORS.

Honestly the only one not understanding the social aspect of why BRs get easily ostracized seems to be you. Trying to justify your broken / illogical conclusion by suggesting that one won’t understand it because of age limitations is just laughable.

As I’ve already summarized before:

It has nothing to do with whether they speak English or not.

It is obvious they do not want to socialize / assimilate when they troll, harass, spam. No amount of “They can’t speak English” is going to justify inconsiderate behavior.

Just because BRs look down upon BRs doesn’t automatically make other communities look down upon them.

Regardless, I’ve said what I wanted to say here. Your broken logic / justification is just that… broken. Whether you see it or not is non of my concern, and is no benefit to me.

Either way, BR will still get ostracized. Some people will still hate them (rightfully or not). As I’m not a SJW, idgaf if they are discriminated or not.

1 Like
#179

I’ll just leave my share of this discussion.
I’m from Brazil. I don’t like most of the brazilian community, or at least the toxic part and the part that stands out the most.

I didn’t transfer my team from Orsha to Silute, I only talk on portuguese with other brazilians, I don’t spam the shout chat, I don’t go spamming “hue hue br” everywhere I go, I don’t cheat on games, I buy my games instead of pirating them, I don’t use exploits and I also don’t talk about brazilian politics on the shout chat.
This kind of thing really annoys me and I feel ashamed sometimes of being a brazilian, especially because of how this kind of thing made the brazilian community (in)famous.

Now, if you say that all brazilians are jerks/stupid/annoying like this, you’ll put me and other fine brazilians on the same bag. BUT, if you say this kind of brazilian is a minority… I think that’s wrong too. Of course, this type of brazilian does stands out a lot more than the fine brazilians (because they “don’t look brazilian”).

It’s get to the point when, after a while chatting with people on the game, questing, grinding, dueling and stuff, and someone asks “where are you from, btw?” and I answer “I’m from Brazil”, they get, like, REALLY surprised: “whaat, you serious?!”. This makes me sad and happy at the same time, sad because of what i said, and happy because I can show them there are nice brazilians out there.

#180

It’s never really okay. So there is no why. I have some Brazilian friends and they are my close buddies. Regardless whether someone is Brazilian, American, Asian, etc, he/she should be respected AND he/she must also respect other people. In short, this is not your game, but everyone’s game. To make everyone’s gaming experience is fun and enjoyable, there is needs to be a “responsible”, “sensible” and “mature” player. Those who talk trash about Brazilians or others should stop. Those who create discomfort to other people (e.g. spamming on mega chat with your swearing, raunchy stuff, super duper long chat in non-English ), please stop D: It’s rude.

4 Likes
#181

From your post it is clear it has been some time you don’t get my point, while it is true that it sounds like a paradox to be a close knit community AND to look down over its own culture, that is precisely what happens more often than not. I never said that due to this subculture syndrome people hate on us. I’m just saying that it is a reason more often than not that BRs will be inclined to agree that other BRs sucks. As a result we get answers like the ones by @gio_sales, he’s ashamed of being BR, so he does not identify himself unless questioned, after some reasonable deal of positive interaction. I think you have the point that we are easily identified and that goes a long way in this matter, I never questioned that much. Again, like I said In the last post, the list of toxic behaviors you quote is not in the context of why BR get hate, is in the context of what every culture-jerk does, but, like you point it yourself, we are more easily identified.

I tried to make it clear the distinction I was making, we will help each other and in that sense, we are a close knit group, if the case, we will troll and pursue someone just for KSing a friend probably to a greater extent than most cultures. While on the other hand we are likely to project our nationality in toxic players when there’s no reason to ( no leads that the player would be BR in the first place ), and when the player is indeed BR we attribute that to nationality instead of just general jerkyness, I’m sure that here the argument that we are like this is precisely because we have a huge jerk base of players, but this perception of our own culture is older than MMOs ( or at vey least older than the popularization of it) all in all BRs hated BRs before anyone else did, it is not an agreement with the international community, in most cases at the very least I would say.

All this started indeed to disagree with the argument that BR do not “succumb to Americanization/ Globalization” much on the contrary, and it is in that context that I’m trying to explain this subculture complex, not to make for excuses for getting hate, as far as the discussion “Y u so toxic” cares the only importance of this is that I would take BRs that agree with getting hated upon with a grain of salt, we obviously have jerks, but they are far more globalized than locally cultured, that they are.

I hope this makes the “your logic fails me” more understandable

And I’m sorry if the age thing got out the wrong way, but I do not think is a laughable suggestion, somethings just take time to sink in.

I only mentioned this because I feel like you haven’t really took the time to even try to understand my point before calling it illogical or looking for things to call contradictions. There’s no discussion to “win” here. I agree with the self idenfied argument of yours. You don’t seem to get my point that BRs look down on themselves for no reason other than thinking they are inferior and I really don’t blame anyone for not getting it, most BRs themselves have a hard time admitting it, and even when they do, they hardly ever fight it which is as good as not admitting it.

I think I did my best trying to explain it here and I’m really not sure how else to go about it

#182

Its its ok to be super racist to BR, its IS OK, its also ok to be xenophobic and stereotype any country that you want.

As Its also ok to see everyone from that country as inferior or some other judgement you fell like inflicting upon them…

And its also ok to build an huge army of people who agree with you under a banner and genocide those inferior people, or to throw a couple planes on those stereotyped as infidel country buildings.

What? IT IS!.. The [insert country here] are a nuisance, they are inferior somehow imo and this gives me the right to inflict judgement… both hate-speech and/or plane-hitting judgement.

#183

Great, your wall of text still have not answered the OP’s question:

Why is it ok to be super racist about BR?

My answer:
People tend to be super racist about BR because:

Which is basically irrefutable because:
In order to target a group there must first be a group to target (Point 1). In order to know the group is the same group it must first be identifiable (Point 2). In order to be racist / xenophobic towards said group, the group must be different enough (Point 3).

It’s pure logical deduction of the circumstances that make BR hate possible. The reason why your responses are so haphazard is because you are disagreeing with logic.

Which is demonstrated in your counterarguments:

  • Towards point 1 you said: BR is a close knit group, but BR paradoxically look down upon BR as well (which has 0 relevance to the arguments in Point 1). In essence your counterargument isn’t even arguing against my point.
  • Towards point 2 you basically agreed:
  • Towards point 3 you attempted to make the case where BRs want to but can’t assimilate because they can’t speak English. But that still means they AREN’T assimilated, thus different enough to be ostracized.

What the **** is the point of your first paragraph? It’s a bunch of loose haphazard ideas that doesn’t come to a sound conclusion.

  • BR is close knit community but BR hate BR
  • People don’t’ hate BR because of BR hating BR, just BR hating BR
  • example of BR hating BR
  • Agreeing that BR group is easily identified
  • BR doesn’t get hate because of toxic behaviors (LOL, of course that the reason, how you can disagree is beyond me)
  • Conclusion is?? BR doesn’t get hate because of toxic behaviors but some undefined nondescript reason?

Paragraph 2 is just BR is a close knit group but isn’t a close knit group all over again. BR is hated not because of toxic behavior but again some undefined nondescript BR hate.

No idea what this sentence mean. YES that paragraph is ONE sentence.

Do you think I can construct detailed point replies by just glossing over your posts? I probably read your posts more times and in more detail than you did yourself.

I do get the point, but IT PLAYS NO RELEVANCE to the discussion at hand. Nobody gives a **** about what BRs do to BR, this thread is about THE ONLINE COMMUNITY ostracizing BRs.

Honestly, your last post made even less sense than the ones before it. I really don’t know how to help you. You just don’t know what you’re trying to explain. Maybe you should draw an outline before constructing your next response.

#184

Sorry to jump in like that but from your post I could notice you are saying that there are reasons that imply logically that hate to BR as a group its possible and what are those, while explaining why those lead to the possibility of hating BR as group.

Well ok…
it is possible, the fact that it is happening proves its possible.

But, do you think that explaining how it does, and why possible to happen its related to the question of if it should or not happen?

Because, I have a car, this (logically) gives me access to ways that I can trample people over, inflicting severe injury. Yes, this has no impact on the question of either I should or shouldn’t trample people over.

Explaining that they could ride their own car to prevent that from happening but they chose not to… still doesn’t address the issue as this is about what I should or not do.

So… people should not ostracize BR, or disrespect them, stereotype them on any way.

If BRs give you reasons that might make you fell like doing so, if they allow this logically, by choice or not, if they do it themselves, all this is irrelevant to the subject.

When discussing about if you should or not ostracize someone, you don’t actually even need to point “someone”, you should instead address the “ostracize” concept alone, and decide if this is something that you fell its right to do, or if its not.

The Brs nature/habits/reasons are not relevant to this debate, what you guys really need to talk its morals, stereotyping and dehumanization process.

Btw i’m a BR.

1 Like
#185

No worries, I definitely welcome new opinions and perspective into a topic we are all interested in.

I agree it is not a direct reply to the OP’s question if it is OK to be racist against BR. I’m merely stating the ripe conditions for BR hate to exist.

The reason I did not touch on the topic whether IT IS OK or IT ISN’T OK because there’s no objective conclusion to that discussion. It all boils down to personal opinion, beliefs and habits.

As I have mentioned earlier, this is a subjective opinion held by you. While many (including me) hold similar opinion, we all know that there is a whole lot (and I mean a very large population) that ostracize, stereotype and disrespect people that are different from themselves.

Furthermore, there’s no way to change their belief and behavior. Xenophobia is inborn and will never fade from the history of mankind. That is why I chose to discuss the conditions that make such discrimination possible. Many societies inherently understand this, which is why they socialize / assimilate as best as they can to avoid being ostracized.

The car analogy isn’t very appropriate. A more appropriate analogy:

On a road where getting ran over is common (that’s like every road nowadays), would you rather stay on the sidewalk (or in a car), or would you rather stay in the middle of the crosswalk, yelling that drivers should not run over you because it’s wrong.

That’s the point I’m trying to make. You can try to tame the tiger, but I’m not going to waste my time trying like a SJW.

#186

The fact that this topic is still going is a testament to how many people there are that are new to online, f2p games. If you’ve had enough experience interacting with a BR userbase, your opinion of them is neutral at the absolute best; otherwise you are simply uninformed.

Not going to bother looking through this as anything that could possibly have been said about them in a negative light has very likely already been said. Stereotypes are based in truth, they exist for all “races” for a reason.

#187

Stereotypes are based in something that likely to turn out to reflect the truth… yes.

But my point its that this doesn’t matter.

You still shouldn`t stereotype because its not fair to the ones who are not part of what made you create the stereotype, and you can’t be inflicted punishiment by other person’s crime/act/behavior.

Everyone knows that, lets say the stereotype might even allow you to safe to assume its likely to be truth even at 99% statisticaly saying.

This still means its is completely unsafe to assume its the case, because if you do, 1% of this people will be punished for something they didn`t do, and they will be ostracized and sometimes they had been even stoned to death because of this assumption.

This is why its immoral to stereotype-base judge people.

This is why you can`t do it.

Because its an assumption based on some estatistical likelihood which indicates is likely that its the case…

But you can’t inflict pre-judgement on someone only because you might turn out be right… because guess what? You might be wrong.

And people got stoned to death, burn in fire pit on masses, sufocated in gas chambers, among many many others not so happy fates as ‘‘being ostracized in a game’’ because some poweful people standed for the same position as you right now.

#188

In all odd of the manner it shouldn’t matter the point of it all is we are all here to play a game together theirs no need to be rude about it ,hence I played with korean’s an had no real issue inspite not knowing what their saying doesn’t give the golden light to lash at those who are different or put them as outkast, as far as seeing Br rule ect an stuff on arrogant pricks thinking their superior for w.e reason that I don’t approve I mean as a gaming community we should come together as a unit instead of breaking eachother apart from misunderstandings an difference we are all civil here so by the heaven’s please act like it an also don’t abuse your given leverage either. Anyway happy gaming mate’s

#189

Exactly this. I firmly believe that everyone is different. So I never judge people until I get to know them.

While I don’t disagree with your opinion here, whether you can or can’t do it is still just an opinion. And changing other people’s opinions about something is extremely difficult, especially they have already preconceived one (like BR hate).

1 Like
#190

You can do it in the same way that you can rob and/or murder people, which in fact you can.

Who says this is right or wrong tho? Law, Morals… idk… lex talionis? IMC?

On any code that I can imagine that people here might wanna pick, being it a subjective or an objective one, you will find that as far as that code goes, its not acceptable to punish one for deed of the other.

I understand your position of ambivalence in moral subjectiveness regard, but when people ask ‘‘its ok to do that?’’ I would consider that they are looking for what would be of greater interest of the many.

If we consider there`s no real consensus on objective truth when regarding morality (or pretty much everything else depending on your philosophical view), we would (on a proper debate) need to estabilish some common ground pressuppositions so that everything don’t get reduced to ‘‘just an opinion’’.

That been said, on any code that I can think that we might wanna apply to this situation we are facing, we would find that punishing one for deeds of other its conclusively wrong.

This is why I think its fair to say, you can`t do it.

(sorry if it got too technical and/or english mistakes as english its not my main language =3)