Tree of Savior Forum

What makes you special?

Gameplay Feedback General Feedback
#1

So far I’m enjoying the game, but I do think that there could be some extras that can really change your character up from the next guy…

I loved the card system in RO1 because it made your character even more unique. For example, an assassin may hunt down a bunch of hydra cards to amp damage against demi-humans, while another may look for cards that added DEX to increase his success with sonic blow.

The gem system is fine, but it’s boring. It’s like every other MMO.

Another thing is the enhancement system. Multishot enhancement from archer reduces the cast time by 50%! That’s huge! While some other skills get 1% damage per upgrade up to 5 times. There’s a huge difference in value there. Perhaps changing it up so that it is like multishot cast reduce -10%, -20%, etc and stun chance up for stone shot by 3% per upgrade will help. Adding more options for enhancement for each skill will also make things interesting.

#2

You’re entering a delicate ground in MMOs: how to make a character build unique, but still have balance and not be overly complex?

Aside from the usual gear glittering, where you add more spark and names to your weapon (“Scimitar”? How about a “Masterwork Serrated Scimitar of Thanos +7 <Fire 2>”?), the main point of interest is skill boosting.
A game that does this decently is TERA, where each skill has 1 to 5 different boosts, that cost some points(Glyph Points, usually 2 to 7) to toggle, and your character can only have a certain amount of points activated at any given time(55 for a max level character). This works wonders, but the main point is that Glyphs are cheap and obtained through gameplay.
Tree of Savior handles this differently, as you can have ALL skill boosts, and they’re locked by a gigantic cashwall. This is both good and bad. Good for higher level characters that can afford such bonuses(not on this CBT, because we can’t make money decently yet), but bad for lower level characters, that simply don’t get real cash. I’m talking about boosts in general, the biggest offenders being the “1% damage boost for 2000 silver”. Specific boosts are way better and usually have a low amount of levels.

I’d say we need a way to handle skill boosts with some kind of limitations, so this isn’t just “throw money on your problems until they go away”. We could make those skill bonuses cheap, but limit it as “class lv = max number of boosts you can have in this class”. Maybe having accessories that grant 1 bonus level on a specific skill or something like that. We can dream.

#3

It’s not overly complex when you consider poring card/lunatic card. Very minor buffs. And in regards to balance, a lunatic card (+3 luk and 1 agi I believe) is not ground breaking, but it’s still a way to make your character different.

Leveling in RO1 was not linear. You could level in multiple areas of the world at pretty much any level and it wouldn’t make a difference. Getting 4 cards that dealt extra damage against say, earth types, would benefit people who are leveling in areas such as Prontera. Exploration and customization was huge, and it’s something I want to see come back. Games now-a-days are very linear.

As for the enhancements go, I do agree that there should be a cap as to how many enhancements you can equip, but to make things more interesting, don’t add 1% damage. That’s bland. Perhaps making Stone shot add more knockback, stun chance, or armor penetration, but you could only choose one. This adds more flavor without breaking the game.

RO1 was an adventure and was nearly limitless in terms of customization and exploration. Even the bosses were incredible. The bosses are pretty standard. Perhaps add MVPs or something incredibly difficult to face, that way it takes lots of skill, but more importantly, team effort.

Also I’ve been referring to iRO. Boss cards don’t count :stuck_out_tongue:

#4

So far, this game feels like just a normal MMORPG to me compared to the depth given by RO.

I’m not sure if I will kept on playing the game if it’s still this way after iCBT.

1 Like
#5

I see the connections with RO, and I enjoyed the game for years. But right now, devs seem to be pretty adamant about making it linear. Maps in ToS are disappointingly small compared to RO, and people struggle to grind when more than one party gets into a room. That’s awful for a MMO. It forces us to grind, and even then doesn’t allow us a place to grind in peace.

That aside, I believe the days of RO cards are over. This is a fun system when you have at least a year-old playerbase and many cards in the market, but I doubt a dev would gamble with such a system nowadays. We’re left with what we can get on cities and quest rewards. I really hope IMC adds some kind of “enhance quest” where you do stuff and fight bosses/dungeons to get some nice exclusive boosts on skills(still restricted by boost limit). This rewards playing the game instead of farming for money and grants new players a way to compare to more experienced players, as everyone has to team up and complete a quest instead of just transfering 100k from your main and buying skills.

Oh, and about bosses… if you play anything not-DPS focused, you know bosses are just a chore by now. I do hope IMC balances more classes, because tanks and supports are getting shafted hard. Highlanders can kill a boss in 6 hits while Peltastas and Krivis take 10 minutes of auto-attacking. If they fix that, I’m 100% with you on the MVP idea. Would be AWESOME.

#6

I agree that it’s pretty linear. I hope that they open it up because that was one thing that RO1 had over so many other MMOs. Exploration and reward (sometimes the reward is an awesome boss that killed you). You don’t have to take away from the story line. Just add new maps and optional/extra content. It’ll go a long way.

The card was an incredibly fun system. Apart from the collectors aspect, it was just a way to add some “umph” to your character and set your self a part from the next guy. It doesn’t have to be cards, I just want it to be something that can add extra value to your equipment, character, and overall gaming experience.

The enhance quest sounds neat. I hope they do things like that for guilds if they implement this sort of thing in the future. Guilds in RO1 was superb. There was so much pride being in a guild of a certain city. Your banner was up around Prontera, Payon, Al De Baren, and so forth. It was something that made you happy logging in every day knowing that what you and your team do actually impacts the game and community, and that’s a nice feeling.

Yeah the bosses are boring. Games should be FUN, not a chore. It’s not hard to make it fun. RO1 was fun. IMC really should look at the what made RO1 so successful. Customization! Social gatherings! Exploration! MVP bosses! and so forth! If you make a game fun, I’m sure you’ll make money no problem. Make it bland and like every other MMO, then watch your player base disappear. RO2 is a prime example of this.

1 Like
#7

Playing this CBT made me think they should have developed the game a bit more before opening it. Overall it has a great base, but what seems to lack the most is content. Linear is the keyword for everything. Leveling is linear, questing is linear, equipment advancement is fully linear and scaling on EVERYTHING is linear. Like, flat-out linear. Like, “most skills don’t scale with any stat and don’t add effects other than damage” linear. In a CBT I can see this not being a big problem, but when the game releases, we’re doomed! Picked up Highlander until C3? Well, go cry in the corner, after Rank 6 your Highlander skills deal as much damage as auto-attacking, their damage is flat. Now you miss out on all the support class stuff. Spent 15 points in Gung Ho? Well, 30 atk bonus doesn’t add much to your 850 autoattack by lv 200.

What this game needs is a rework in advancement. That goes hand-to-hand with character uniqueness: not making your past choices be useless when you reach a new rank.

1 Like
#8

I’m not that special what so ever, I’m just a regular player, taking a leave from work while I’ll let my working team, my secretary and my trainees do the work while I play non-stop for 3 days ToS, I’m not special :smirk:

1 Like
#9

Linear is boring. Linear is also every other MMO so I agree there…

Highlanders are ridiculous. They do tons of damage and they can take quite a beating as well. I understand they’re kind of like the berserker class, but make other classes more dynamic and unique, and the bosses not so boring. Any Highlander can auto attack a boss to death without any fear of dying at all. Not only is that overpowered, but it’s also boring. Bring other classes up AND make the boss fights interesting! It’s so lame walking in circles while holding down Z.

Moving forward… The entire archer tree-line needs help. If Archers are supposed to be single target focus, where is my damage? Am I supposed to use skills instead of auto attack? If so then where is my SP help? Reduce the CD and SP consumption of skills please. Archer C3 just for twinshot isn’t worth it. Make it worth it!

Quarrel Shooter is also rough. Caltrops are buggy, Super high CD and SP consumption. Stone shot is unpredictable, and Deploy Pavise is worthless. It’s a skill that does nothing. It says block here and there but I still get hit from behind it. So… What’s the point?

Pardoner’s spell shop is interesting, but I can only sell 3 of Priest buffs? That is pretty linear in the sense that I have to take priest in order for my pardoner to be effective.

The class system is a mess, bosses are boring, maps are tiny, and little to no customization. I get that this is beta, but this was a little disappointing in all honesty. I thought this was going to be somewhat on par with RO1. I really do hope they fix all of this though because you’re right, they do have a great base and starting point. I’m also hoping that this isn’t another game that we play for a few days and then end up forgetting, just like more than half of the MMOs that come out of Asia.

#10

We just have to remember that RO is a 13 years old game and TOS is still in beta. While it’s good as a reference, there is no way TOS could have everything RO has in terms of customization options, so people should lower their expectations in that sense. Many of them were also not available when the game began, so have a little bit of patience. I believe IMC should address this problem, but in a thorough way so things won’t be even more unbalanced.

1 Like
#11

I understand that this is Beta that’s why I haven’t quit. I know that RO is a 13 year game and it had a lot of time to flourish, but what it did so many things right when it released and it only got better from there.

What I’m trying to say is that I hope that IMC follows in that path somehow.

I really do enjoy some aspects of the game, I’m only pointing out what I feel are the problems and what can be improved in an overall game sense, considering that this is the “spiritual successor” of Ragnarok.

#12

But, RO already is not linear, with bunch of customization from Day 1.

#13

I also hope they improve that aspect of the game. I already like the immense amount of possibilities when choosing your class build, and it would be even better to be able to customize even more, though I would hate to see imc rushing in customization features beacuse of the demand and breaking the balance even more instead of focusing on the problems we have right now (the whole archer class tree, for example). I would hate to see a fixed metagame full of specific class builds because they are ‘OP’ instead of a system where each build would be effective in their own, unique way.

#14

(This is just my opinion)
The thing is, mechanically, TOS probably cannot have the similar feelings of playstyle and gameplay to RO. The two games are literally separated by the design such as, delays, skill mechanics, general stereotypes of the game, even controls and movement.

In RO, it is a freeworld, it is the game that doesn’t hold your hand AT ALL, you just create your character before they just throw you into the harsh world. The design is not overly complicated. Gameplay-wise, there are no trace of leveling quest or solid storyline, Graphic-wise, it is pretty simple, epic 2-almost-3D animations. You can just customize your own characters 360 degrees all around because of how the game is designed. There are thousands of builds, thousands ways to play.

In TOS, everything is a little bit more restricted. You follow the quests for levels (grinding is okay, but quests obviously give more exp), the skills are strictly limited for separate classes. The design is more complicated and free-form because you can jump, attack, and you can directly interact with the world around you such as rocks, hills, and especially the finding quests. The movements are slightly bit sluggish because the maps are much smaller, and it has to be made that way because of how the game is originally designed. The devs just can’t deliberately increase the map size because it will turn out to be too boring to just walk around.

Overall, TOS is designed to be a bit more solid form gameplay-wise, while RO is almost 100% free-form. What people tend to forget is that, this is Tree of Savior, not Ragnarok. Sure, the designer is the original designer of Ragnarok and many consider this game to be its successor, but in truth, Tree of Savior technically is not the successor of Ragnarok. It is a brand new game that implemented certain aspects of Ragnarok, but at the same time tries to introduce new game mechanics concepts to be differentiated.

#15

Agreed that they are both completely different games. But that doesn’t eliminate the possibility of further adding to the character customization possibilities in some different way. I see RO as a guideline in terms of customization experience, not as a model that should be repeated the way it is in TOS. But as I said before, this should be addressed with a lot of care from IMC and only after the more pressing balance issues are solved. There are lots of different build options already, and I’d hate to see it ruined because they decided to rush features instead of balancing exising ones.

#16

Problem with archers is the players mostly. Look at koreans playing and they spend half or more points on SPR stat while people here go full str or dex and expect to have sp for anything.

#17

What Makes Me SPECIAL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw21X2jKwCM
#18

The thing is, it could have been great like RO. It still could, but it’s unlikely since we can see what IMC’s design philosophy is for ToS: Generic WoW-clone with RO-esque graphics. (Btw, RO’s world was fully 3D. It was the characters/mobs that were 2D sprites.)
ToS was marketed as a korean grinding game and that’s exactly what they gave us and nothing more. Players literally grind, with little to no variation or choice. Mobs spawn in pre-packed groups in small areas; players have big AoE skills; put the two together and you get gratuitous, loud, empty, monster explosions enmasse (ruining the lovely bgm). Throw in quests aimed at speeding things up and making you grind every monster in the game (literally every monster) so you have no choice whatsoever.
Basically, we were marketed a hardcore grinding game, and got a casual grinding game that doesn’t appeal to casuals. IMC just sunk their own boat.

That’s not to say that they couldn’t save it all. It’s just that they won’t, after all the work they’ve put in, they’d rather release a generic linear game with few redeeming features that’ll live for a year or two than take apart the game and put it back together in a better-for-all way (which they probably could do, with a minimum of work) that’d last a decade.
If they did do that, the problem they’d have is finding out who to listen to and who not to. Some people, high on the hype of ToS probably think how the game is now is amazing, but once the glamor wears off in a month or two, they’ll hate the game with religious ferver for taking so much of their time.
On top of all that, they probably wouldn’t listen to anyone here on these forums. It’d be the korean ToS community that’d get to make the loudest says.

#19

TOS is far away from being a wow clone. Just saying.

Also, do you have any idea of how much it costs to take apart a game in beta stage and put it back together? Sure, some AAA companies such as Blizzard have done it, but it is because they have a ton of money and can easily afford the costs. But for a small company such as IMC this could easily lead to bankrupcy, and it’s never an easy task. And they do listen to people on this forum, just look at how many issues were addressed since the last ICBT.

It’s just stupid to expect a game to be a 10 year game on release and even less during a beta test. RO was not kept alive because it was released perfectly, but because issues were solved and content was added during all those years. In fact, Gravity could have done a much better job with that, as many classes in RO have been underbalanced for many years. In resume: dont’t assume the game isn’t worth it or won’t last in a beta test. Instead, make suggestions, give feedback, report bugs and try to improve the game. Don’t just say “it’s unlikely” or “the game will be dead soon”.

#20

Perhaps I should have elaborated…
Look at the features of ToS, and yes i’m well aware the game isn’t finished. What we’re seeing now is IMC’s “close-to-what-we-want” beta test version of ToS. The problem is it’s not what anyone else wants. Just look at this thread and the others like it that are cropping up only a few days into testing.
The systems that ToS is demonstrating, even if they’re not finished are not the kind of things you’d see or even want in a possible AAA title. They’re all things you see, not in WoW, but in one of its many clones; RO2 for example exhibits similar systems to what we have here and RO2 had a massive following directly from RO1, who were supremely disappointed when they finally did get to play the long-awaited second-release of RO2.
What happened with RO1 was that the groundwork and mechanics that were put in place at opening were good, fair, simple to understand and complex to master with complete freedom in everything you could do, even from the earliest release of RO. With such solid groundwork, a success was inevitable. It still could’ve been better, but it could’ve been a lot worse.
ToS is like a Lamp post being compared against a Tree, and IMC just wants to make the lamp post taller with a fancier light at the top (Max level, classes, maps and mobs), the taller the lamp post, the less use the light is down at the bottom.

As for taking it apart, I meant that in a literal sense, not from a coding/engine standpoint. The combat system is functional but badly balanced and misguided. It’s all based around the lamp post’s linear progression and offers no freedom whatsoever, with a core story that the player is forced into in order to access maps, bosses and dungeons.
At present, there are hundreds of monsters that are above level 100 that people probably wouldn’t see with normal exp rates but still exist and are running around in maps that people are exploring at an accelerated rate that could’ve been used to flesh out the groundwork and give freedom to the players.
So when I mean “take apart the game” I mean take apart the existing field maps and attached dungeons, remove the level restrictions and restructure the world with Klaipeda (or another important town) at the center as the Capital. Flesh out the existing maps with the high level monsters, restatted into low level monsters with the other towns placed at certain distances from Klaipeda. Dungeons being the dangerous, party-oriented levelling areas and fields being the slower, safer levelling areas.
Of course, this would all destroy the existing quest layout, but since this is replacing linearity with freedom, it’s a more than fair trade-off in the long term. As said, more can be added to the end game later; as long as the world and mechanics are sound and usable alone, the story quest is less mandatory. What you can’t do is add to the groundwork after you’ve built the house. It pisses off the people living upstairs.

Of course, if IMC wants ToS to be a linear game… well, I think we can all agree it won’t end well.