Tree of Savior Forum

What exactly is the point of DEX on a Swordie?

So we’ve all seen it STR vs DEX everywhere…

And maybe my hiatus made me a little late to the party here but Im seriously not understanding what the point of DEX even is right now.
So forgive me if this as been said before, or it gets long winded or ranty…

Anyways!
Ive never really bought into what what people say on this mater, because at first I thought it was just preference.
But using our handy-dandy damage formula-

(((((Skill Attack + Effective Attack) + (random(0% … 100%) * Magic Amplification)) * (100% + T0)) - ((Effective Defense * (100% + Level Penalty)) + Elemental Resistance)) * (100% + (0 or 50% if crit)) + Extra Elemental Attack + Enemy Specific Damage) * (100% + T1) * (100% + T2) * (100% + T3) * (100% + Enhance) + Bonus Damage/Critical Attack

It seems that STR will always beat out DEX provided that that the DEX build didn’t land a crit (duh)

But unless Im just some f*cking dumb as balls little girl, DEX landing a crit will ALWAYS beat out STR unless you are Using the Basic Attack or using a skill that has under 900 base dmg (Not including your weapon, or Critical attack)

But even before all of that, you have to worry about landing the actual crit on the enemy in the first place…
And with the Crit formula:

((Critical Rate - Enemy’s Critical Resist) x42/Your Level)

This makes Critical rates lower as your levels go up, and while an Archer can effortlessly reach 800 crit rate even a Full DEX swordsman with optomal gear is not getting anywhere near that…

A lvl 280 Full DEX Swordie will have 365 base evasion.
+74 crit rate from 2 Sissel Bracelets
+120 From lvl 10 Green Gem on Sub equip
+194 From x2 lvl 10 Green Gem on main hand weapon (provided that you have one with 2 slots)

Which will leave you with 633 crit rate, while using some of the most optimal Crit rate rasing utilities that a swordsman can use…
Now the enemy i could find with the most crit resistance has 120 cit resistance.
Now lets insert this into the crit calc~

((633 - 120) = 513 x42/Your Level) = 76.95%

ALL of that and your not even close to the Crit cap (85%)
(Granted this is one specific enemy) But that is ALOT to have just above average crit rate… and what hapens when the lvl cap raises?
Your crit rate will get lower, and lower, and lower…

And with everything i listed to raise you crit rate is at its peak, with the exception of your base crit rate, which is not getting higher at a fast pace.
However there ARE MORE tools that a Swordsman can use to increase their Crit rate, but what has already been calculated here is SUPER expensive alone…

So again I ask, How is anyone besides a Fletcher supposed to utilize DEX?
No one else has the raw skill dmg to make it work, and only Archers can get enough Crit rate to make a viable in the current endgame…

Swordies need a Crit rate modifier besides Finesta (because that will eventually fall off too)
Or they are forced to remain gabage damage dealers forever, as their only saving grace will fall off as the game progresses.

And dont give me the crap about them supposedly being a tank class.
literally NOTHING out of 15 classes except Peltasta has anything indicating of a tank’s Kit, (No, not Rodel either…)
Swordies being a “Tank” is just how the TOS playerbase looks at them due to their low dmg.

For pvp and dodge. In cbt dex was overpowered

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Yes, in the class advancement screen, all classes are “Attack” type (even Rodelero) except for Peltasta which is “Defense” type.

When solo leveling, DEX is important (evasion). In PvP, you need to dodge and hit (accuracy) as @fatedhour mentioned. I don’t put points in DEX expecting to get more damage. If only I could dodge some spells…

Evasion

Str WILL always beat out dex on paper. You are 100% correct about that. However when it comes to actual in game fights and mechanics I firmly believe dex wins out over strength because you can actually just stand in place and never move and deal damage almost 100% of the time

Not sure if making the rest of this post is a good idea or not, but here goes. Here’s an example

In my party there is another swordsman, presumably high or full strength
You can see they just constantly die (sorry…) which results in massive dps loss because dead DPS is no DPS. If not dead, then constantly running in and out of the fight. More CON wouldn’t really help either in this situation except to allow you to run away a bit slower/with more success

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Are you a 1:2 STR:DEX ratio?

Anyways, IMO STR never wins on paper unless an evasion build is just not critting or thy are an auto attack/ low skill dmg class.
However in a Fencer or Highlander’s case ignoring DEF is a LARGE saving grace and allow them to get away with having high DEX and low skill dmg.
because they are typically low STR classes, this allows them to gain a DPS advantage over just about any build in a lot of cases.

On the case of that particular swordie or any high STR Swordie, I feel like, if you go high STR you NEED leather.
Despite what others will tell you leather > Plate in MOST (not all) cases. In fact I use both on my Fencer, Plate for magic enemies (for the extra HP, because cloth is trash) And Leather for everything else really…
AND MY FENCER IS ALREADY HIGH DEX!


Sustain > DPS
My point of this post was that DEX it self scales badly, and requires A LOT for a swordie to reliably use it as a dmg booster for our current end game continent.

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That’s a very interesting video.

I assume you may be an older swordsman player, so, if you could say the equipment on this swordsman it would be great, since I’m trying to calculate how much of an actual Dodge Rate swordsman can achieve.

Also what are you using to see the Enemie’s HP amount and size and stuff above that.

@xechidna

The ignore def for fencer (I don’t have highlander) only applies to pierce attack
And it’s also actually not that big. There are some specific cases where it’s really, really, good but those are very limited.

Also both classes that have these debuffs apply to the enemy meaning anyone can take advantage of it

@namewasveryshort

Notes:

I pretty much exclusively used the full plate (superior royal guard + roxona plate) until today. I’m now using 3 set superior royal guard and vubbe fighter gloves. I’m also ditching sissel bands for gladiator bands when I manage to pull the money together. I made an error with DPS calculations and didn’t realize until today. So best in slot DPS for me is actually 2x glad bands and vubbe fighter gloves. (and yes this is for single target. I’m not counting the AoE attack ratio)

And since you seem to be interested in dodge rate, here’s my dodge rate with both sets:

Leather: http://i.imgur.com/vgEDDTY.png
Plate: http://i.imgur.com/RO5b9jE.png
+43 on each if I hold duelist
@xechidna (again)

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OK AND LASTLY the one where you can see your invested points, WHATS THAT ONE PLEASE~!?

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that dosn’t…
that dosn’t tell me anything xD…


?

ive never used any addons for tos xD…
so im not sure what any of this is

this video puts everybody who puts high dex on their swordies at ease!
well you have pelt so. sorry for all those other swordies with no pelts. hard to level on your 1st char with no pelt.

anyway. i am interested in the way you have the !! countdown timer on your head for your skill. that seems to be another addon correct?

I took pelt for the 18% evasion not for taunt (though of course I always use taunt)

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Out of curiosity, have you noted if the game puts Blocks before Dodges, or the other way around?

@haukinyau Thanks!

@Jariu
Dodge always comes before block
I THINK - not 100% sure that flanconnade buff blocks can either appear at the same time as dodge or override it

I’d dare to say that Flanconnade’s buff most likely overrides dodge calculation due to it being a priority 100%.
Edit: Could you give me some insight on your skill points allocation?
Finding FencersC2 has becomed harder as time goes on, specially in the forums.

@Proxied thanks for sharing the video. Was planning on rerolling Fencer with high dex so this is really assuring.

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