don’t get why, in a wizard thread, talking about wizard nerf, you keep posting about how useless swordy are.
nerfing a class because another is crap its hardly balance.
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If you take 1 second to read and try to understand then you’ll see why:
No class is balanced. Wizard getting a nerf hardly matters.
Now this is where you tell me: “I took this CC tree because I want to be able to CC and kill ppl?”
Lmao You think swordsmen pick barbarians and highlanders and fencer because they want to tank?
nerfing a class because another is crap its hardly balance.
Nothing. Is. Balanced.
Nerfing wizard, buffing wizard, makes virtually no difference in a game where class balance a complete clusterfk, and theres no incentive or reward for people to pvp, and server lags make fair fights downright impossible. There are more pressing issue at hand. Server has to be fixed and stabilized first. Then a proper reward system for pvp has to be implemented. Then we can talk balance.
Right now they’re nerfing stuff because these are things that are just downright broken. When everything becomes slightly more “even”, and “stable”, more tweaks will happen.
By all means though, feel free to cry about the nerf. I relish in knowing that there’s nothing you can do other than moan.
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stop being so salty on the game?
there is the same incentive to pvp as to pve, because you like it (atm, because there will be reward for battle arena and gvg, the same as ktos).
again with this swordman nosense, stop talking about swordman in a thread called wizard pvp build?
no, they are nerfing stuff because they are doing a bad job in balancing (and they do it weekly) them, as other guys gave a batter way to balance them instead of those nerf.
we are not crying, we are discussing all the nerf to the wizard and other wizard classes, what could happen now, what are the build left
still, if you think we are crying, that this game its such a lag unbalanced mess, ecc, why are you here, in a thread to talk about the nerf on ktos, talking about swordy everytime you can? <.<
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still, if you think we are crying, that this game its such a lag
unbalanced mess and that talkign is just crying, why are you here, in a
thread to talk about the nerf, talking about swordy everytime you can?
<.<
I talk about swordy because its the most obvious example. I can list tons of other useless circles in other classes that’s not balanced in pvp and my point would have been the same.
Your “discussion” sounds awfully like crying to me, as plenty of other wizard players have provided counter arguments, and yet you’re still here going on a loop about how the nerf makes your circle useless blah blah blah
That’s not how a discussion works. If anything, OP is super biased and has no intention on actually discussing. He started the thread wanting to gather people like you who are unhappy and become salty when he realized there are people out there who are actually fine with the change.
no, they are nerfing stuff because they are doing a bad job in balancing
(and they do it weekly) them, as other guys gave a batter way to
balance them instead of those nerf.
I am 100% sure you have zero clue how game development works. Developers don’t just go “hey lets nerf this skill cuz people are crying”. A discussion will have taken place, where the devs list the pros and cons they can think of (aka. actual discussion), then they implement it and see how things go/ move on to other more urgent stuff, come back later to tweak if things don’t improve/ urgent stuff are dealt with.
Right now you’re crying about a nerf that hasn’t even happened on iTOS, to a build that is clearly broken, from a class that is still viable for all aspect of the game even after the nerf, about an aspect of the game that hasn’t even fully matured yet. Rofl
there is the same incentive to pvp as to pve, because you like it (atm,
because there will be reward for battle arena and gvg, the same as ktos
If you like pvping in a game that had virtually zero balance, horrible lags and no reward, why the hell are you having this so called “discussion” about a single nerf? Clearly you’re gonna enjoy it anyway, nerf or not. Just as I’ve enjoyed playing a swordsman, imbalanced or not.
Unless you’re saying you enjoy playing the OP class and destroy people.
In which case you aren’t concerned about balance at all; you just want to be OP and own ppl and that’s it. So get off your high horse and stop talking about balance when you don’t care for it.
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ok, i have no clue on anything (won’t waste time, don’t care), but again, after all that, why are you here discussing random thing about balance and stuff, in a thread to talk about wizard build ( w i z a r d_b u i l d ) after the ktos patch? <.<
i do enjoy pvp, i’m discussing the nerf because they are bad (imo = a k a in my opinion), they could have done it better and as the thread state, to see what pvp build ( w i z a r d_ b u i l d) are left, you know, that’s what this thread is for anyway.
don’t assume stuff just to write something and discuss for the sake of discussing.
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It’s just a raging randy. Don’t let him get to you ^o.o^
he won’t, i just want him to say it. :<
ok, i have no clue on anything (won’t waste time, don’t care), but
again, after all that, why are you here discussing random thing about
balance and stuff, in a thread to talk about wizard build after the ktos
patch? <. <
Because you guys are wasting time debating on a issue that’s not nearly as important/ doesn’t affect the game nearly as much as other broken things that require attention?
Not to mention the ktos patch isn’t even here yet.
A better question would be why are you having a discussion about a patch that isn’t implemented, about a nerf to a class/build that is still viable and not completely useless like some other circles in other classes, for an aspect of game that was never balanced to begin with, and continue to argue even when other have told you its’ not as bad as you think.
That’s the real mystery.
i’m discussing the nerf because they are bad, they could have done it better and as the thread state, to see what pvp build ( w i z a r d_ b u i l d) are left.
Bad according to you. Plenty of others have offered evidence that it’s not nearly as bad. Some even said it’s not enough. And if no one can ever convince you to change your opinion, there’s no need for “discussion” because your mind is already made up anyway.
It’s just a raging randy. Don’t let him get to you ^o.o^
Rofl.
he won’t, i just want him to say it. :<
Good, because it wasn’t even my intention to begin with.
so since we are wasting time on somethign not important (to you), you are wasting time telling us that?
ok.
told you why i’m talking about those nerf, because imo they did a bad job, can’t be more clear.
yes, someone said its not enough, why their opinion should be better then mine it’s subjective.
don’t care about other circle or classes, this is the wizard section of the forum? or am i in the wrong part? :>
again, discussing for the sake of doing it, pretty amusing. >.<
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don’t care about other circle or classes, this is the wizard section of the forum? or am i in the wrong part? :>
Yeah and I’m saying the state of wizard is not nearly as bad as the state of other class even after the nerf. And since pvp has never been balanced people should stop crying about it and wait until it is.
Should i head over to the swordsmen or archer section and tell them about this wizard nerf that some wizard players are crying about?
Kid, please.
told you why i’m talking about those nerf, because imo they did a bad job, can’t be more clear.
So you don’t actually want to discuss then. They did a bad job, period, and you just want to cry about it.
yes, someone said its not enough, why their opinion should be better then mine it’s subjective.
It would be because some of them actually played on Ktos, whereas you haven’t?
so since we are wasting time on somethign not important (to you), you are wasting time telling us that? ok.
I didn’t think it was going to be a waste of time. clearly i was mistaken.
again, discussing for the sake of doing it, pretty amusing. >.<
you bet.
no, you should go to those section if you want to talk about how bad they are.
do you want to talk about wizard build after the ktos patch? you are in the right thread.
pls don’t read what you want to have it your way.
it would be because they used old video to discuss it, as already said, and again with random assumption just for the sake of discussing, cute <3, but it’s getting old.
i mean, if they share your idea, you are ready to marry them, otherwise, they are such crybaby. >.<
this is just getting nowhere, you just read what you want to get it your way either way.
time to go in the swordman section to talk about the mouse bug and in the archer section to talk about how bad the swordy have it, since that’s why we have different section. ^^
do you want to talk about wizard build after the ktos patch? you are in the right thread.
I would but all i’ve seen is just OP and people like you whining how bad the nerf is and little actual discussion about the build. which leads me to my arguement:
no, you should go to those section if you want to talk about how bad they are.
Yeah except unlike you I’m not interested in beating up dead horses. Everyone knows swordsmen are bad, how IMC is going to address it is up to IMC.
I’m bringing up other class here to illustrate a point about wizard.
pls don’t read what you want to have it your way.
Here’s what I’ve read so far:
Some people say nerf is overnerf.
Some people say it’s not as bad.
Then the people from the former started flaming the latter.
The latter flame back.
At this point the discussion is no longer a discussion. There are little build discussion, just people biatching back and forth.
because they used old video to discuss it
They use old video to demonstrate certain combos, which is still relevant after the nerf.
i mean, if they share your idea, you are ready to marry them, otherwise, they are such crybaby. >.<
You’re calling other people crybabies when you’re the one crying about a nerf and the other people are trying to tell you it might not be as bad as you think?
…kay.
this is just getting nowhere
I agree. And it would be because you’re resorting to 1 really childish arguement, and that is:
Don’t talk about other classes in a wizard thread.
When I’m clearly using the state other classes to illustrate a point that is relevant to the wizard nerf. And this point is mirrored by a lot of people in this thread:
CC circles in wizard will still be viable and is nowhere near as bad… compare to other circles in other classes.
no, you don’t read, or you would have stopped an hour ago >.<, even now you missed the point of those video and the fact that i didn’t even call anyone a crybaby, except “us” ( talking about the nerf), in your opinion (if you can’t even get that… man give it up already).
since you are still discussing for the sake of doing it, talking about something outside of this thread just to keep going and reading what you want,
yes you are right, the nerf is not enough and won’t somebody please think of the childr…swordy? >.<
i mean, if they share your idea, you are ready to marry them, otherwise, they are such crybaby. >.<
no, you don’t read, or you would have stopped an hour ago >.<,
even now you missed the point of those video and the fact that i didn’t
even call anyone a crybaby, except “us” ( talking about the nerf), in
your opinion (if you can’t even get that… man give it up already).
When English isn’t your first language it’s probably not a good idea to assume people will understand what you’re talking about, and berate them when they didn’t.
yes you are right, the nerf is not enough and won’t somebody please think of the childr…swordy? >.<
I actually wanted to edit my thread, but since you beat me to it, I’m just gonna post this here:
before you say something childish again like " i dont care about other classes", here’s me telling why you should.
Class balance is all relative. If 3 other classes are viable, and 1 isn’t, you can either buff that 1 class, or nerf the other 3. It’s the same with tos. If there’s 1 build that’s clearly super overpowered, you either nerf it down to where other popular builds are, or you buff other classes to match that build.
Considering how many classes there are in tos, the most logical conclusion is to nerf that build.
“but…but its overnerfed”
Yeah no, its not an overnerf because other classes and builds are in similar condition. Popular archer builds are also nerfed. (Steady aim, SR nerf etc). Meanwhile Swordsmen recieved a str buff to bring it up in line with other classes. (though i’d argue this is not nearly enough, and the whole swordsman class is kind redundant at the moment) You can clearly observe an attempt to bring every class in line with one another. So what I talked about is completely relevant to this thread.
And Now I quote:
ok, i have no clue on anything (won’t waste time, don’t care), but
again, after all that, why are you here discussing random thing about
balance and stuff,
Hopefully you understand why these “random things” that I brought up aren’t actually random but completely relevent to how this broken CC circle of wizards is getting nerfed to the ground. It’s because other classes are garbage in comparison. (except maybe some cleric trees) Previously you can’t even touch a Cyro Kino in pvp. Now they have counters.
Talking about these sorts of ‘balancing’ would be a discussion. What the OP has in mind, what you’re trying to do, isn’t an discussion. It’s whine.
The things other people have said are clearly misinformed in context to Gravity Pole’s damage, and they clearly have no idea what they’re talking about. They don’t even know when the dmg reduction applies and have no basic concept on math as to why a 80% additional reduction makes a skill pointless. Thus why I wrote out the numbers for what actually happens. In-case it wasn’t obvious, any gain you get is reduce to 20% of it, making any gains a pointless investment as the end result will never be even close to sensible, Pure Int, Max Dmg %, High End Gears, still pointless damage.
However, the reality of PvP is not every class is meant to be as good as other classes in it. There are classes clearly designed to be better at PvP. Expecting PvE classes to be as good as PvP classes is absolutely dumb. If that is what you expect, then you should just leave the PvP scene. When making a character, you ask yourself if you want it to be better at PvP or PvE. Wanting to make a PvE character so you enjoy PvE more then complain about it not being good in PvP is so asinine, that I’m not sure how such a person could even take their self seriously. Yes, CC is good at PvP, because it’s meant to be good no matter how you look at it. The vast majority of wizard skills are easy to dodge if you aren’t absolutely bad at the game. That’s why wizard builds without CC present are pretty crap at PvP. The only kills such a wizard gets is from people who are just bad at the game who litterally run face first into skills. (E.g. How most swordie players seem to like to play, so cry me a river.)
The fact of the matter is being salty at cc wizards being good at PvP still doesn’t justify overnerfing a skill to uselessness. Just how like cloak being really good at PvP wouldn’t justify nerfing snipe to being super weak because it combos well. Making all skills and combos that are good in PvP bad isn’t balance, it’s just making PvP-based characters pointless. PvP builds should dominate in PvP, period. Stop expecting PvE characters to be on an equal level and stop thinking that because an archetype has 1 or 2 more builds that are good for PvP more than you, that it justifies literally making a skill pointless to even use regardless of investment.
This is literally the equivalent of PvPrs saying Frost Cloud should be made weaker than Flame Ground in PvE because it hurts their PvP build’s feelings. For some reason in some people’s minds, PvP deserves less respect than PvE in terms of balance. You have to look at each skill on a case by case basis and where it is on a class when determining its balance. Yes, even for classes that excel in PvP, you bias salty twats.
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The vast majority of wizard skills are easy to dodge if you aren’t absolutely bad at the game.
Yeah because the servers are stable and everyone’s playing on 0 ping. So ez wizards CC are getting destroyed in balance patches.
How most swordie players seem to like to play, so cry me a river.
Yeah because the problem with swordie in pvp is their playstyle and not the inherent weakness of melee and their proneness to CC. It’s definitely not the fact that there are little ways for most classes to stand against magic damage and ccs without CC immune circles.
Expecting PvE classes to be as good as PvP classes is absolutely dumb. If that is what you expect, then you should just leave the PvP scene.
No one expects PVE builds to win against PVP builds. Problem is CC wizards were an abomination even against most pvp builds from other classes. Now they are more or less on par.
archetype has 1 or 2 more builds that are good for PvP more than you, that it justifies literally making a skill pointless to even use regardless of investment.
It kinda does, tbh, when these 2 builds were grossly overpowered before. Also pointless to use =/= useless. Just because a skill is nerfed, doesn’t mean it has zero applications. not to mention “pointless” is a matter of opinion. I personally think it’s pointless to have a swordsman class in tos and think they should be deleted. That doesn’t make me right. Some people see the points of having swordsmen, just as some people will still see the point in using a skill even though its damage is reduced by 80%.
The fact of the matter is being salty at cc wizards being good at PvP still doesn’t justify overnerfing a skill to uselessness. Just how like cloak being really good at PvP wouldn’t justify nerfing snipe to being super weak because it combos well.
Bringing 1 build in line to other builds =/= overnerf. Majority of other circles sux a$$ in pvp. Previously CC wizard had barely any counters. Now they do. Previously CC wizard blows sht up with 1 combo. Now they actually have to play the game like everyone else.
The notable exception is cleric class which is pretty nuts in pvp and now that wizards like yourself are creaming their pants because they can’t no longer roflstomp others, i’m fairly certain people will start crying about cleric and eventually they’ll get tweaked as well.
Also, cloak is good for pvp but not good enough to get nerfed to oblivion like CC wizards skills. Also, snipe has plenty of counters already, it being physical damage and on a 25 second CD. Can be blocked. Can miss.
For some reason in some people’s minds, PvP deserves less respect than PvE in terms of balance.
When the game doesn’t even have proper reward system in place for pvp and the servers are wacks, and 1 class out of the 4 is virtually useless, and pve being the core and only gameplay experience the game has to offer, which is also a buggy mess, yeah i say PVP deserves less attention, and even though it might be just me, i have my reasons for thinking so. That’s not the point though.
You have to look at each skill on a case by case basis and where it is on a class when determining its balance.
Completely, utterly, 100% false assumption made by someone with little to no experience in game development. Majority of game developers look at the meta first, before determining which class requires tweaks, then they take the most exploitable skill in the tree and tweaks it.
Want proof? Simply look at what has happened to wizards CC, and the buffs to other classes.
Swordsmen got straight buffed. Certain cleric builds nerfed/buffed. Archer nerfed/buffed. Wizard CC got nerfed. This is done because devs are looking at the meta, which is how its supposed to be done.
No one is dumb enough to examine every skill on a case by case basis, because developers understand that balancing is an ongoing, never ending process. Meta changes. People discover more ways to play the game and it simply not sensible to look at each skill individually and where they stand in certain classes every time they feel the need to balance something.
Yes, even for classes that excel in PvP, you bias salty twats.
Funny how we’re biased even though some people here actually play CC wizards and they must be salty for having a different opinion to yours even though they aren’t the ones who are crying about the nerf.
Feel free to keep it up though. Reading salty posts about fotm classes getting dumpstered is extremely satisfying.
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man, just get out of this topics
kids, whiner will destroy you instead
too tired of these selfish kids who only think about them self
they have no battle league, GvG pvp experience, never play other class, have no exp about other class exp and discussion like they have tons of it
what they care is their toy will soon be broke so they keep crying and hope it will not be happened in IToS
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The nerf is very needed IMO, it is just nearly impossible for the majority of the classes to win against Kinos in general, whether it’s 1vs1 or group pvp. Now Kinos will be more group oriented I believe. The only problem is not nerfing some Cleric classes at the same time.
Anyway, people just have to accept that ToS has an insane amount of classes, so expect balancing to be somewhat frequent. It’s also fairly easy to level up characters in this game if you compare to any other MMOs, so just accept rerolling is part of the game until major balancing changes come and get over it. Or else don’t play OP classes just because they’re OP.
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I agree with the nerf with gpole CC changed to slow tbh but keeping the damage reduction to 80% is just too much. Even if you invest INT in your wiz, it would take 5 int to gain 1 damage from gpole.
it’s better to cast a lvl 5 energy bolt instead of channeling gpole. So why not disable gpole in pvp.
What i think the OP is trying to say is, if this can happen to Kinos, there’s a possibility that it can happen to other classes too which may result to reroll.
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