Tree of Savior Forum

What are your opinions on Wizard PvP Builds post kToS nerfs?

Class and Rank Wizard
#1

So with the latest nerfs to all the CC classes in the wizard tree, it seems safe to say that wizard based CC will no longer be a factor in pvp. In regard to this, what build for wizard makes sense now? Are there no longer good PvP builds for wizard?

Archers now seem better at ranged dps, and clerics now don’t have any competition. The only thing that countered cleric pvp builds (with competent players) was what they have nerfed.

So, even if you still want to continue ranged dps, archers seem to be the way to go.
If you want to actually be in the best tier for pvp, cleric seems to be the way to go.

Obviously, some people still want to play Wizard I’m assuming though. But, the nerfs pretty much destroyed the PvP options for wizard.

Chronomancer is still a strong support option at least.

For DPS, really have to depend on tracking attacks it seems. Sorc 3 has familiars. Ele 3 + Rune Caster + Wiz 3 can make for strong Snow Boulders. Necro + wiz 3 can still potentially burst hard but landing Flesh Cannon is going to be hard to pull off.

Psycho is technically still relevant in PvP due to Raise and Swap, but going c3 for just raise is kind of ridiculous, especially with the added ways to get rid of it.

I realize we still don’t have these changes and it’s possible that our version of stuff may be different, but it seems like a strong possibility that we may be faced with this in the future. Personally, I’m not a fan of how big the nerfs were because people spent a lot of time (myself included) in building characters meant for PvP. There is no way to reset classes and it’s honestly quite boring needing to build another character from the ground up. For those who think one shouldn’t build characters around PvP, that’s kind of absurd since some people play for PvP foremost. To not build around things that do good in the area you want to focus in is what shouldn’t be done.

I feel like regardless, many people are going to end up quitting even if we come up with good replacement builds. While I agree that the choices people make should have meaning and that being able change classes takes away from that, people make their choices based on how things currently are. If anything, those choices are being invalidated by extreme nerfs and/or buffs to things. It’s not fair to expect people to have to start back from scratch because things changed so much and saying “choices should matter” no longer holds up when everything those choices were based around have changed so much.

Going foward, I’m not sure how much motivation I have with whatever we come up with since it’s possible that it will be nerfed too.

2 Likes
#2

I think Kino2-Chrono3 could do well for small-group pvp and has potential for large group pvp.

#3

Nerfing the OP skill doesn’t mean those CC builds become useless. It’s true that those build that relies on OP skills will have more impact, but that should be predictable for balancing in the game.

Next month top 50 pvp ranking might have less wiz class, but wouldn’t that be more balance because up to present magic class are dominate pvp too much.

I’ll still stick building my 2nd char a wiz3>kino3 for pvp propose when gvg come to iToS.

1 Like
#4

Nerfing skills to the point where they no longer have a use is an overnerf. This isn’t the first overnerf to occur but it is one happening after the game has been out long enough for it to have an actual impact on characters made. If it were possible to drop classes, it wouldn’t be as big a deal, but you literally have to spent countless hours doing the same thing over to level a new character and the attributes.

Your personal choice to stick with a build that is no longer optimal is not a factor for those who actually want to be useful in the area of the game that they care about. The fact of the matter is CC no longer has a place in PvP against any team that knows what they are doing. Against pugs, sure, feel like you actually are a threat in PvP. However, also enjoy being hard countered by clerics outside of pug matches (and occasionally hard countered in them). The rest of us want to actually be effective against those who actually know what they are doing.

For those who only care about being the best, cleric is the way to go as I said, but some of us do want to find a place to play the archetype we want. That’s what this thread is for.

#5

being strongest -> got nerf - > complain and want to quit ?
kids these day …

btw
even got nerf it’s still good to support teammates with cryo - psycho cc in pvp not just run up to enemy team and stick the pole to their ass and got the kill

5 Likes
#6

I don’t see them as totally useless. Kino used to have a massive raw damage in their skills, and this is one of the reason why CryoKinos goes full con. With these recent changes I think most of them will consider adding more magic attacks now, thus making them put more int than the usual FULL CON which is plain ridiculous or whatever. This is prolly the best idea made by kToS to balance things out in PvP/GvG.

About Indulgentia being able to counter Raise. IMO this is one of the best changes they’ve made in the game. Now we are slowly having an actual meta in the game. If you played RO then this is ToS’ version of Land Protector (which counters wiz aoe ground skills by putting it on the ground), except this works like a buff.

2 Likes
#7

I’m not really affected by the nerf but I really think the last GPole nerf was too much. They could’ve at least left the silence effect to it. Right now it’s like a channeled version of flame ground + slow with a target limit of 5.

4 Likes
#8

it’s not too much it’s one skill = sure kill before
beside gravity pole psycho still have many CC left so it’s not really a big problem

as other game the cc class always got low dmg, but pre-nerf psycho/cryo got both damage, cc and tanky

btw
it still suck people in and slow them

#9

I’m not saying it didn’t need a nerf, I’m just saying nerf was too uh… big? The nerf turned Kino’s best skill into the worst.

2 Likes
#10

Massive? Not the right word. Moderate, sure. However, this hasn’t been the case since Gpole’s damage was nerfed to a mere 20%. I’m not sure if it is even stronger than that basic attack spam at this point. Having both its CC ability nerfed and its damage nerfed makes it a pointless skill. Psychic Pressure is more or less a melee skill in context to its range making it extremely limited and yet is completely countered by several mechanics in the game. Raise, Magnetic Force, and Swap are what Psycho offers now and none of these factor into damage and can be played around.

There is no longer a hard counter to Plague Doctor which will just replace the spot Psychokino had. Wizard at the end of the day depend on CC to function in PvP effectively, unless the means to counter it are adjusted as well to not be able to be kept up indefinitely, CC-based wizards for PvP just won’t make a lot of sense for competitive PvP which is what most people built for in mind. The core issue is there is no means to change one’s build to adjust to these extreme nerfs without rerolling one’s character. Having extreme nerfs with no way to change one’s build is going to be an extreme motivation to not continue playing for anyone with builds the extreme nerfs hit. For someone with a build they don’t have to re-roll, it’s easy to not care, but one day it might be them. Not caring about other people needing to spend 100’s and 100’s of hours to remake a character is going to lead to the population becoming even less.

Guess what, a game can not remain active without sufficient profit. Do you want to see ToS close in a few years? In the case of an extreme nerf for any class, the ability to reset at least some of the classes of the build should be implemented. It’s not reasonable to expect people to have to reroll 280 levels (or 385 for the next line of content) everytime a core skill is completely changed. It’s absurd to think that is fair for a game people play for enjoyment at the end of the day.

3 Likes
#11

My final build was planned to be Wiz 3 > Kino 3 > XXX, with the goal of being a pvp powerhouse with some PvE viability. I’m currently Wiz 3 > Kino 1

Given the evolution of KToS and the likelihood that similar PvP-oriented nerfs are incoming to us, any thoughts on alternative builds from here?

NOTE: If gravity pole is limited to hitting five mobs with low damage, I’m not sure I see the point in taking Kino 3 anymore

#12

I don’t know what’s massive for you but a 700+ raw damage (considering the 20% nerf idk the actual number) for 10 seconds is massive for me, and also having that total hold is ridiculous for me to begin with.


Assuming this is a FULL CON build, 1.4k per tick isn’t really bad. With proper use of combos you could still melt players with 25k below HP. Which is why I said they should consider changing stats by pumping more INT instead of the usual FULL CON build. Having them change stats also benefits the physical classes, with 400 con = 400 crit resist + aias they just became completely immune to critical (unless you’re a rouge).

They didn’t destroy the class. The nerf was necessary to create balance.

3 Likes
#13

Back then gravity pole alone is all you need to get the job done. But nerfing its cc and reducing its damage doesn’t necessarily mean the skill became useless. It’s just a matter of figuring out how you could utilize the skill.

#14

It really isn’t though relative to what other classes have for damage output. More importantly though, the damage reduction is only applied in instanced PvP. The numbers you see would be reduced by 80% in those environments. Case and point, the damage is so low that it is a non-factor. It also not having any actual CC ability now just makes it further pointless, which, he is purposely letting himself be hit by it the first use, and easily escapes the second. Also, you can just hit the caster to stop it anyways.

I’m going to assume you just weren’t aware of any of this rather than you trying to convince people the skill isn’t complete garbage now. This is honestly akin to if they straight up made Frost Cloud in ele 3 weaker than Flame Ground. People would probably have to remake their characters or just quit.

#15

In the video there isn’t PvP restriction because it’s a friendly duel, not an instanced PvP.
So if you want the actual value, it’s 20% of 1.4k = 280 per tick in 5v5 or GvG.

#16

So, do you realize in pvp there is a team around?
Now a Single cry (o) kino wont be enough to stop a guild in its Tracks.

1 Like
#17

lol kino people crying when other class like sword man cry a long time ago
how ridiculous

1 Like
#18

A guild of idiots deserves to die to CC. Now there is no punishment for mindless rushing.

#19

Being able to CC 5 people from 15 in the raid for 7sec max (if not interrupted) wasn’t already enough to stop a guild.

#20

CC 5 people by one person isn’t that enough?