Tree of Savior Forum

Was just reminded how bad this game is


#41

A big issue games have that I’ve already seen done well is that gear has no usability unless it’s maxed out. You don’t use a +8 weapon, you get it to +11-40 and then you quit upgrading it (with exception to diamond anvils and gear hard enough to get that you’re forced into golden anvils you don’t have)

This means in order to have progression, the creators have to create new gear sets for you to repeat the whole process on later… Which is horrible.

The very first MMO I ever played had an item, it dropped about 1/100,000 monster kills, Idk what it’s actual rate was, not even sure the game ever was data mined or whatever but it was a rare item.

All gear was 1 set, if you got it at a lower level, you could upgrade it’s level and it’s name would change. (Think of turning a piece of Primus Raffye into an identical piece of Primus Zvaigzde)

What this meant was you never had to switch gears, so once you found a half decent piece, what would be the equivalent of “Berthas 3 Socket” you could start upgrading it, and you’d get +3 no problem day 1 most likely but after that it took time, and some of the upgrades used that item that dropped at a 1/100,000ish rate.

It would be nice if ToS had something like that, diamond anvils could drop in the same was that Primus do just at a lower rate.

Eh too many people who already have strong gear fighting against Diamond Anvils though, acting like they’re the problem instead of the solution. The only problem is the rarity and P2W exclusiveness of them.


#42

genius! never thought of that…


#43

do the ichor extraction vouchers really work like that? Always thought they were just meant to take ichors out of velcoffer weapons and not turn weapons into ichors.


#44

The main problem is not the crappy ichoring rate.

The problem is that it stands at the very end of a whole number of RNGs involved:

  1. you need to go to a field map and kill about 100+ monsters to make a purple monster appear who opens a challenge mode portal
  2. you need to clear at least 5 stages of said challenge mode to have any realistic chance on a raid portal stone recipe
  3. you need to farm sierra powder and nucle powder by either doing uphill defense or disassembling random stat gear (requires disassembling primus) to craft the raid portal stones
  4. after collecting 4-6 raid portal stones that way, you can enter a unique raid and after clearing it, you’ll receive a cube with a low % chance to contain a recipe
  5. after doing at least 5-10 raids to drop the recipe, you need to get some practoniums by either doing raids or killing demon lords or being super lucky on uphill attox box of materials (let’s ignore the 3 practoniums you get by quest for this since you receive them only once per char)
  6. after getting the practoniums you have to farm the mithril/sapphires by farming in Hunting Grounds and/or doing uphill defense
  7. after you got that covered, you need some additional materials which drop at rates of ~2% from certain monsters or are collected by fishing(this was recently added before the Re:build update)
  8. now you can finally craft the damn weapon, but you still have to overcome another RNG of ichoring if you want to have the effect added upon your Velcoffer weapon, so you need at least another 1-3 of the same weapon

If you look at this complete list, you can easily imagine how crooked the whole system is.

It’s a whole lot of RNGs involved which consume hours over hours just to have a chance at ichoring.

I can understand the RNG wall at upgrading, but just for a certain special effect to be added onto a weapon, this is too much.

It’s even worse for random stat gear to transfer to armor, as armor has usually less potential and higher chance of failure.

  • Armor without any stats is just useless(because Solmiki set exists), while a weapon without any extra effects still adds a whole ton of attack.

#45

my friend skip 1-8 by afk macroing and buy them all from market, this is the parasite


#46

A lot of that list can be done in tandem or you should be doing anyways.

CM, Saalus x3, Dungeons x3 should be done daily. In all, that usually takes about 1-1.5hrs. This helps with getting silver, shards, dust.
Then velcoffer x2 a week. If you’ve been doing velc at all, you get so many raid stones from it. I haven’t crafted raid stones since velcoffer came out.
Then Uphill as many times as you can a week. You should be doing this because its a great way to level up gems and get essentially free potions (speaking of which, I have not bought potions in over a year because uphill and popo points)

I didn’t really “farm” for any of my materials, I created CM groups for that specific map and you get materials so much faster that way. Practoniums are so cheap now, what are they…1.5m-2m ea? That’s like 2 days of doing your normal cm, saalus, dungeons.
The only issue I have is the recipe droprate (which from this bonus event, has completely crashed the market, everything except a few specific ones are very cheap now), and mithril/sapphire requirements. But mithril is in huge abundance from uphill.

This is why people focus on the ichor problem only, the other stuff is already accomplished from just playing the game regularly.


#47

Do people even realize the meaning of “endgame perfect gear”? It should be hard to obtain.
And I hate ToS RNG system - all my items are 0 pot dead, just killed to +5 0 pot brand new velco set.
But having ideal end game items (that in case of velpopo sets will last for quite a long time) should be hard to get.

Nevertheless, Ichor system need adjustments.


#48

That’s what it should be. Time consuming, challenging and engaging. They got one of that right. Right now, it’s just pointless RNG farm. I can farm countless hours for items but it just feels pointless when it disappears. I’ve already quit awhile ago but it wasn’t due to this.


#49

Tos in a nutshell. This is the real reason behind people quitting


#50

Just quit boy. Play another FTP cute RPG.


#51

Well, what can I say. Kids are just too soft and whiny nowadays.
ToS is a classic Korean grind-your-ass-out RNG MMORPG. If you expected something else from it - it’s your expectations that went wrong, not the game.


#52

Yep, I got everything I needed out of this game. All my velco items, attributes are all at 100, playing together with guildies. After that I grinded for cosmetics and got original Wedding book, Snowflake effect etc. This game has no content for me at least besides grinding out your equipment to max level. I’ve been using the same solmiki gear and weapon for 1 year and many months before I switched to velco.

I didn’t mind the grind when it was DPK because I was slowly getting towards my goal when getting items and it wasn’t as RNG heavy before until ichors came. I’d rather prefer that than wasting 10 hours and get nothing in return. But that’s just me.


#53

No,if you ever played any classic MMORPG like Ragnarok Online you can’t say that.

In RO you farmed items and usually not crafting materials (equipment crafting aside of elemental weaponry was initially limited to Godlike WoE items).
For normal items, there was only the drop RNG, with cards having the lowest droprate.

So normally you’d just drop a bunch of items, then upgrade it and once you’re high enough you put in your cards and are done.

There was no RNG over RNG over RNG involved. That was only recently introduced with Mora set & mora enchants where you do daily quests to get mora coins to put enchants on equipment, with a chance to break your equipment while enchanting.
After enchanting, there is the option to upgrade your weapon by making it +7 with a certain specific enchant setting into a new and better weapon, which can be then enchanted again, and if you upgrade it to +9 or higher, the enchantment gives you another choice of stats for enchantment.

But even that is better than the ichor system which involves so much beforehand farming, since you only need 3 items for mora enchant: Mora item (bought with mora coins or farmed from monsters), Mora coins for enchanting and Oridecon/Elunium to upgrade the item itself.

There is way less farming included compared to TOS.

It’s just stupid to force people to do these things in the first place.
It deceives people by creating the illusion that the game has actual content, but you are basically just farming to farm to farm again, a never-ending circle [unless you’re lucky and got your equipment done after 5000+ hours].

In the end you don’t even need the equipment outside of the unbalanced PVP.

Practos cost 6-8m on Fedimian…

you play forever just to get that from everyday playing, and then there’s over 50% chance that your weapon doesn’t become an ichor. Imo ichoring should be a 100% success thing on items so you only need to do the freakin thing once.

Especially if IMC is going to give out 100% ichor extract vouchers with Re:build when exchanging weapons, it’s pointless to not make the 100% extract voucher an item you can get by farming, e.g. as a reward in the new uphill defense shop so you can actually farm towards a 100% ichoring chance.


#54

I’ve been playing on 1x official RO server for 15 years, halve of this time GMing server top guild, thank you.

For people crying about RNG in ToS - in RO your items disappeared on first refinement fail and success % were much lower than in ToS.
No RNG layers? Really? How about slotting Infiltrator / Ice Pike /Etc, then trying to make it +9, then trying to enchant it with stats you want? RO’s RNG was much worse, but casual ‘Oh, I’ve played Ragnarok, it’s cool’ players dun realize it, 'cause they’ve been playing on random private middle-to-high rates serves. Classic 1x official RO is cruel and stingy game, period.

And the only thing that made (and still makes) ppl play RO is WoE and high-end competition process involved in it.
Less farming in RO? Puuulease. RO is 24/7 farming game to be relevant during WoE. But again - if speak about private high-rate servers, than yeah, RO is a breeze. @item 4399


#55

it’s ice pick Owo/

kinda funny for a very important weapon XD


#56

Yeah, typo happens. But 10% slot chance with item being destructed on fail is way more hardcore than anything we have in ToS.


#57

They were much easier to get. No crafting needed. Kill monsters > get slotted gear > refine.

Slotting gears came in a few episodes later AND you can get some slotted gears like ice pick from certain bosses.

Only RNG I hate in RO was probably card drop rate.

Now you say people have their expectations wrong and not the game, simply check the game’s state and laugh at it.

This is not healthy, same with all the older threads and reddit posts about RNG walls.

Meanwhile a single pre renewal RO private server now has more population than 4 tos servers combined. Some even just log in for the popo.

If you wanna keep the current RNG system sureeeeeeeeee. It’s just not healthy for the game.

This is coming from me, someone who made a lot of +16 myself, but hey I know the frustration of those failing in the middle of the RNG wall and either giving up or settle with +11 instead. Or you know, not even get +11 at all.

and for the record, RO’s refinement system (classic) isn’t as relevant as it is on TOS. The effectiveness for armors was brought down even further on renewal patches, with the exception of refinement bonuses for certain gears.


#58

I’ve said already that Ichor system should be adjusted.
ToS’s refinement system - terrible.
But (!) it won’t prevent you from full-clearing the end game. You can stomp everything with +5 legendary items, no need to have shiny +21. All that fancy stuff is for perfectionists. RNG madness in this game is only for those ppl, who want to squeeze 100% out of the game.

Me myself is absolutely ok with +11 items, never had anything higher. Yet I faceroll all games’ content with ease.


#59

I think he’s also talking about PvP not just PvE. Your going to want maxed out gear if you PvP at all unless you enjoy being fodder.


#60

Yup.
And PvP in ToS is just for self-jerking, no game value whatsoever. I used to TBL a lot, but then I got R1, got statue, made screenshot and forgot about TBL. No real rewards = no reason to tryhard.
And without mass-pvp (i.e. Guild Wars) - no stimulus to push harder and harder.