Thatās already on the OP. Hehe.
I havenāt rewatched the whole video but it seems he canāt Joust the wheel, or is it just not worth breaking it since it just stays in place?
my bad. gota sleep.
wait. that was not there before. lol.
Its a level imbalance too. Lancer was 303 I think, Inquisitor was 330.
Unmounted Dragoon is one of the best damage in swordsman tree though
but in pvp aspect,I dont know between drag2 or lancer who will be the best
both seem nice, one got awesome range skill thats high damage and bind
the other got utility to destroy magic circle and silence
well just hope some swordsman class in top 10 TBL
Iām going sw 2 > hop 2> corsair > doppel > goon 2. Doppel for CC (Cyclone with Restrain) and not damage.
If Drg2 he can do serpentine -> 2x dethrone to burst the inquisitor down.
At the end of the day, one can only have either dragoon C3 or lancer C3. IMO, the comparison of Lancer C1 and Dragoon C2 is āprematureā, the best moment to compare these classes is when both C3s are out.
Well, Lancer is focused on GvG/mass PvP while Dragoon is a āhybridā class but falls more on PvE than PvP (see classes attributes). It depends on what you want and how you want to do it.
lancer c3 is r10, drg3 is r9.
No one care duel and 2v2.Itās all about Battle League.Even though dragoon counter to lancer,it doesnāt mean dragoon can deal with cleric and wizard better than lancer in rank match .By the way,just like statue the wheel is not magic circle .
Update: Added 5v5 TBL vid where a Lancer can be seen in action.
i will just add this here: sw3 for restrain and pain barrier alone may seems nice at a foot soldier swordsman for pvp since it work great for cata variation build but the reality is not; since you are going at footman swordsman, you can not be in fight for a long time where a cata for example can keep running in and out without pause but as footsoldier you need to prepare yourself to going in and out of the fight as fast you can and mainly be out for a few seconds, because of stamina pot and so on and pain barrier lvl 5 is more than enough for that, letās remember that dethrone reinforces this even more since with his range there is no need for you to be inside the fight all the time to do your thing.
now about restrain: the main problem of restrain lies in that it needs a really multi hit skills to work, so if you choice to go on the second build (corsair) you will lose cyclone from doppel, and thus restrain will be at least sub optimal, since landing hits and stun with restrain that have such short duration, is simple not viable in the long run without a fast hitting skill like cyclone or rush for example, even more since you are sacrificing 2 ranks for that.
if you truly want to create a footman soldier build for pvp that end in dragon2, i would recommend hoplite2 corsair1 doppel or hoplite2 corsair2, i believe there is no need to talk about each of them, since i have already spoke about it earlier, the doppel variation is to be of use with cyclone outside of hook, with a durandell you will have 42% of stun with restrain(sword2), and is more than enough for a fast hitting skill like cyclone, with the corsair2 variation i would go for the petal, because again pain barrier and restrain would not do much for him, but with petal you can at least have a fair great evasion, even more since with the current dethrone damage, going dex may be better for dragon.
for me the hoplite2corsair2 is more solid, because it can be use to farm recipes as well, with jolly roger.
I disagree on this one. Pets (Hawk and normal pets with Retrieve skill) and some other archer skills are annoying and will disrupt you often. Extra 10s of KD immunity is great IMO. If itās worth taking 1-2 extra ranks depends on the build. For Dragoons, Iād take SW 2 because you wonāt just cast Dethrone and then stay in the backline waiting until itās up again. [quote=ānery_ma, post:115, topic:325134ā]
the main problem of restrain lies in that it needs a really multi hit skills to work
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All Dragoon skills are true multi hit skills (I donāt know about Gae Bulg since footman wonāt even use it). If he goes Sw2>x>x>corsair>doppel>dragoon2, he will have some skills to proc restrain. In the particular case, I find sw2 to be the best balance between PB and Restrain.
Cata e Dragoon skills hit count: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJCfgMVQNqA
Agree on this one. I think Corsair c2 is worse because you canāt cast Long Stride with dagger and for bossing you loose bonus damage to L/XL enemies. Doppel gives you a slash skill (you can wear Demonas if you are not planning on having a shield on most of the time ā 2H spear) which helps preventing debuffs and procs Restrain at the same time.[quote=ānery_ma, post:115, topic:325134ā]
for me the hoplite2corsair2 is more solid, because it can be use to farm recipes as well, with jolly roger.
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DPE compensates less Pillage chance. When I think about Corsair c2-3 advantages, the first thing that comes to my mind is Hook duration. FIve-10 extra seconds means A LOT of damage dealt or prevented (say you hook someone with ausrine buff). Iām used to my Corsair c2 and I feel a huge difference while playing Corsair>Doppel.
@KnightXlll @danielnito007 @nery_ma
The problem with foot Swordsman in PVP is speed.
Because you donāt have Trot, if you engage and start the fight you must finish it. You cannot run back and wait to go in again, you donāt have the speed to do that.
I know Hoplite Dragoon has higher DPS from Finestra, but in PVP, DPS doesnāt matter, itās about burst damage, and Dragoon c2 has enough. Speed is the most important factor though and the main reason why there are so many successful Cata 3 in battle league
i never said it was not great, nor i was talking about a normal dragon build, but a foot pvp build, once you take this in context, being 10 seconds in fight without hook and dethrone is just bad for you, if you want to be there, is fine, but this does not mean to say that is the perfect available option for the class, of course once every enemy is dead and there is only 2x2, or less enemies, the situation would change, but my msg was more in a broad aspect because the mentality you have is still at pre rank8 release, where we need many skills or time to kill anyone even more since we are swordsman , with present rank8 release they are doing fest of one hit kill, and trying to be in melee without your main killing skill that is dethrone or hook just because you have extra 10s of pain barrier is wrong, once rank 8 release will be suicide, since one hit could kill you and no one will try to do, try to see some of the videos and i believe you will change your mind on those new 10 seconds of pain barrier.
i also know that, i have being doing pvp since week one mainly end at last week i was in 13 i ever remember seeing you one or two times and i know you are a playing as foot soldier corsair and the build with doppel is the one i would recommend for sw2 as well, so i do not understand the msg, since i have said that with cyclone having restrain it is useful , but i must still say this if they do not have a fast multi hit skill like cyclone going for restrain will be sub optimal and there is difference of being good or of use, so i will rephrase it by being sub optimal i mean to say that the other option will be better or at least offer the same amount of benefits , not that sw2 will be of no use. but again iām not talking about cata, try to land multi hit skills from dragon multihit in a pvp scenery with a FOOT CLASS you will know that without the hook will be fair harder and most of the time will fail so please do not misunderstand what i have wrote, because what you have wrote is the same as me, about sw2 and restrain.
i know and this is why i have said that corsair2 is a more solid choice because would offer a good pve aspect for the game but of course would sacrifice some of the pvp toolkit that is sw2 and doppel cyclone.
of course i know about this, but i believe was you who was asking for a foot solder pvp build, so i gave my suggestion.
but about running back i can not agree with you on that; pvp is a mess and with my experience i can say that you can in fact run back,even i do pvp with my foot soldier as well sometimes, if you know with experience when to enter the fight and when the leave, the option will always be there so you can leave because they will always focus on wiz-cleric first.,
In the end Cleric Fk swordman lmao
Yes, I havenāt seen the difference in our speech. My mistake.[quote=ānery_ma, post:118, topic:325134ā]
try to see some of the videos and i believe you will change your mind on those new 10 seconds of pain barrier.
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Iāve seen some videos and although people live shorter in arena, I donāt think one hit kills were that often. I do need to watch more 5x5 videos, yes.[quote=ānery_ma, post:118, topic:325134ā]
what you have wrote is the same as me, about sw2 and restrain.
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Yes, I was reinforcing your opinion. I agree with you and thought I could say that I think like you. [quote=ānery_ma, post:118, topic:325134ā]
pvp is a mess
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Itās mess PvP (pun) 
@nery_ma I believe we think alike. My comment was just a way to detail a personal preference so others could balance things and choose what they want. I disagreed with the importance of Pain Barrier but I see I was not seeing the scenario with a post R8 mindset.
EDIT: do you believe barb skills are useless with rank 8? Right now, I love Seism and Helm Chopper for stun. If itās too risky to land them without getting one shotted, then I see Long Stride would be a much better choice.
right now in pvp, at rank 8, anyone who is not doing a full con Supp build, is dying really fast,even more than before because the new skills are hitting hard, one dethrone 2 charges is doing up 20k+ damage.
the only one i have not seen yet from swordsman is a doppel pvp video, but again doppel was always more a pve focus class, but i can not see a huge difference from him alone, at least in the aspect of surviving the hits from the new skills and this is the conclusion i got after reading/watching the videos:
pvp right now for us at rank8 , have changed a lot, we can not take risk anymore even with a cata type build, we as swordsman already have huge disadvantage against wiz-cleric, so we need to go in and out even more fast now and when we are without our main asset is suicide and very different from before where we could try to do pressure to the enemy and win sometimes because of a simple reason that is swordsman is more tank than the other classes, but with those new skills those extra hp will be nothing.
like i said in my previous msg; seism and helm would enter in the category of doing pressure to the enemy and win by the fact that swordsman is fair more tank that everyone else if you try to use it as damage dealer and this in fact have lost itās value because trying to keep stunlock is fair risk now, mainly at the start of matches because would simple take too long to finish the enemy and any good player would go there to help, i myself when i see corsair doing things like that or monk doing his kamekameha, or kinos doing PP in my team i always stop everything iām doing to launch a earthwave on them, but i can say that is not everyone who does this i ever rarely see a good archer doing something like this, i have ever fought with flet that see the kinos doing raise and have not launch a single Ma on the raise and so on, wizards as well with fc but is something that as swordsman we should always do , we should think more about our teammates than us, because they simple have better tools in the current pvp scenery than us (rank7), even killing our self to save a good wiz or cleric is a good strategy for us swordsman, too bad that there is not many who thinks like this and maybe this is why they can not do well in pvp.
i went a little outside of topic so i will write now a personal opinion for me it does not have lost itās value because i have always think of seism and helm only for their stun attributes and now this is even more important because again it would allow you to better target your rank 8 skills, now i have gone a little out of topic before but just because i remember that in the last two days i fought against you, since i believe you are the character nitto, and one time you have hook a wiz from my team, a very melee hook, so i jumped on you even with low hp, and you killed me with seism helm stun lock, hahaha, but in the end the wizard survived to do more.
one thing that every swordsman can do right now, is to use miss direction, because the pvp is so messy and sometimes the fps drop really low, even more if the players does not have a good pc, so just going in launching a good knockback already allow to change the focus of the enemy, this may not be of use with foot type swordsman because of itās speed, but for cata i can say that miss direction is a very valid option to use in pvp, trying to simple distract the enemy with right stuns or knock back and so on, is the better tool that swordsman can offer for his team in the long run fight , at least until rank 8 comes with those massive damage skills.
haha, talking about pvp i just lost 3 matches in a row, i got in with a monk, who have not use heal, and had rushed in the enemy every time trying to launch his punches, i can not say that we lost just because of him, but i believe that he was a very important part of it, after all a monk, who is not even full con (14k hp) going up at front line to try to punch the enemy at 5x5, is simple suicide and he was always the first one to die.
Main reason I asked is because I think Iāll go Dragoon with my Barbsair. Iām not sure what to do with it and I donāt want stop playing it because itās nice to stun lock people 
But Iām going to give Hopgoon a try. Iām close to lv. 190 anyways.
I donāt like most monks, TBH. They tend to go super aggressive and forget about the support aspect of the class. Kabas and PDs tend to protect me and this usually means Iām not a sitting duck while hooking people.
can i be frank with you? i would re roll, not because barb corsair will be too weak as dragon, in fact it will be fair weak if we compare with the hop corsair path in pve , in pvp they will be in equal grounds, hop2 alone offer a very good tool kit with finestra but the stuns from barb is nice as well in pvp, both option are good but this is not even the main reason.
the reason is; because for datamining efforts we already have find information from rank 9 classes at least it seems to be rank9 it was skills name i believe , need to check the ktos thread again but iām sure that they have find information , like about archer hidden class as well, so i believe that without doubt at rank 9 will come something fair nice for corsairs since i do not think that IMC will add another spear class, and rank 9 will come sooner than we may think .
so if you choice to go with dragon at rank 7, you will be forced to take dragon at rank 8 as well, and then dragon at rank 9 or the new class and this is where the flaw of the build begins, because you will always feel the loss of spear lunge, but if you wait at corsair rank6, new classes may give better options for you, of course this is something that i could do if i had time, i would mainly use the corsair 2 to farm recipe and wait if i could, and of course if you farm enough equips you can always put it on you corsair for pvp as well for that 50 daily points, and in the mean time you would be lvling a alt to play for now, you will surprise yourself of how fast you can level a alt when you have the right tools, like good enchant with elemental damage, skipping low level blue quest, focus only in the quest that gives status point, so you can reach lvl 50-80 for lodge and so on, very fast, i was leveling a alt inquisitor, and it only took me 1 hour 11 minutes game time, to take rank 1 to 3, since it was the total time playing, for rank 4 i can tell you tomorrow, since i will play a little more with him, but i doubt it have been more than 2-3 hours in game time to level from rank 3 to 4.