Tree of Savior Forum

[Video Guide] Pyromancer Thread

You honestly think Pyro should compete with Elementalist?

Oh dear…

Elementalist is a heavy damage class, thats what it was made for.
To balance said heavy damage it comes with long cast times and even longer cooldowns.
To make this class work you need to pair it with other classes.

Pyromancer is a damage class, not a heavy damage class, it does decent damage.
To balance this it has the lowest cooldown filler in the Wizard tree and low cooldown spells.

Like i said a few times before, you dont see just Pyros or just Eles, you said it yourself with some build examples.

Pyro can still do some heavy fun interaction damage if you really want to.
For example, Fireball only lasts for 1 hit but does more damage then a 1 hit from the old one.
Its on a 9s cooldown down from almost 20?
Ever tried prepping for a boss by placing down a bunch of fireballs and then sage duplicate? remenber 9s CD now.
Seen the film 5th Element? …Biiig bada boooooom…

You know what, i lost the motivation to keep talking about this, going over the same thing over and over again gets tiring.

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“Fireball only lasts for 1 hit but does more damage then a 1 hit from the old one.” << No it doesn’t XD
My old fireball did 10k per hit. My fireball now is doing 9k and I have more matk than pre rework XD.

But I do agree that Pyro is decent now, it’s just fireball that is not. It’s a skill that almost has no purpose now, except giving you a button to press when u don’t have any other skills to use. XD

Also, one question to anyone who can answer…

Anyway to round up mobs (specially ranged ones) into a single spot, good enough for all of them to be hit by swell/ shrink, if you are not a linker??? JP scrolls are expensive.

Hello :slight_smile:

Your description of Fireball is called a Filler spell, which is what Fireball is :slight_smile:
Also the damage change you notice is because of the balance to Agny, im guessing you had it?
People are talking about 40k Fireballs some even 100k with screen shots to prove it, keep that in mind wen thinking about a 9s cooldown spell :smiley:

Only other way to round things up without Linker is probably Cryos Frost Pillar.
Cryo Pyro seems like a fun combo that i want to try out :slight_smile:

Maybe a Pyro3 Cryo3 Ench1 or Pyro3 Cryo3 Lock1 since Lock2 isnt too impressive.

Added a little bit more gameplay to the thread :slight_smile:

Also, does anyone know if theres a big post about fixing Warlock?
The changes to Invocation literally broke Warlock and this does actually need fixing.

My old FB did that too with agny. Since the Nerf to agny, pyro isn’t a one class wonder but an excellent support with higher classes. Also, you are more dependent on gear. Shitty gear=shitty dmg! FB is a great spell if u JP and immediately HK then FB.

Would replacing pyro3 or thauma 2 be better though if I were to replace either with linker?

You can replace Thaum with Linker or you can try having both at circle 1.
You could still use Linker to group monsters and do decent damage, just not as many as linker2.
Thaum1 can still bring some decent magic attack buffs and swell body.

Try it out, if you dont like it, you can always reset it :slight_smile:

Magicbiscuit, first of all I’d like to thank you for taking the time to talk about the Pyro class and teach the basics for those of us who are still learning the game.

It is really important for the community to have someone such as you, who looks at the bright side of things and tries to do your best with what you have (meaning, in this case, the new Pyro class), instead of complaining an doing nothing.

It is imperial to say, however, that for most of us that played with Pyro before the patch, this changes have been heartbreaking. That’s why we need to talk among ourselves to see new paths for the so loved Pyro class and that’s why I’m thanking you for that.

That being said, I feel a bit annoyed by the way some things are being treated here. Keep in mind that I’m trying to do some positive criticism: the last thing I want is you giving up on the Pyro class or stopping recording your videos (which are very well made, by the way).

To begin with, I see a lot of misinformation being spread around the forum about the true damage of Pyro skills. There are plenty of videos of people with top gear dealing colossal amounts of damage and people are using that as references, when they shouldn’t.

Since the game is equipment-based now, obviously a full-equipped Pyro deals a lot of damage. So does a full-equiped Ele, a full-equiped Kino, a full-equipped Sorc, even a full-equipped Wiz. If you take the time to analyse those numbers and compare the damage of different classes using the same gear, you’ll see that our disappointment with the current Pyro damage is totally justifiable. It is puny, even when compared to the pre-Agny Pyro.

In second place, I see a lot of people talking about how playing with Pyro is more fun now, but even though I did my best to make Pyro work (and I did), it’s not being fun for me at all. My Pyro skills are unable to deal with puny mobs, many levels below me. For now, they are simply replacing my auto-attacking while my other circle skills (Kino3 and FF2) are on cooldown. And, being honest, in between using Pyro skills or auto-attacking, I’m not sure which one fares better.

Since the patch, I experimented combining Pyro with all other wizard circles. And unlike before, where I had the flexibility of making combinations, Pyro has been reduced to one role and this role only. And a puny, despicable role, as well. The role of a filler class.

For people who aren’t to keen on Pyro, such as you, perhaps this filler-pyro isn’t annoying. Perhaps you accept Pyro as a class of almost no importance to the game, something that is there just because you can’t pick anything better in the lower circles. It is just a filler, it helps a little while other skills are on CD, so what is the big deal? But for people such as me, whose greatest pleasure in this game was building strategies around Pyro as the core class, the current scenario is quite depressing.

Before this patch, I considered myself a Pyromancer. The Chrono3 and Sage1 where the real filler classes, being there only to support my Pyro part. Now, I’m forced to rely on other damaging classes, not be a top-tier DPS, but to kill a single mob. I understand Pyro not being a top-tier DPS; I really do. But being unable of finishing the weakest enemies in underwhelming.

I know a lot of people have been complaining a lot these days and it can be quite annoying for people like you, who accepts the Pyro decline and can even find some fun in it, but please, try to understand our side as well.

And above all else, keep up the good work. Looking forward to seeing you guides about the other classes of the game.

4 Likes

Holy moly :smiley: fresh and nice post mate … and all i do is whining because of sorcerer state :sob:

Eh the early classes are basically just to help you settle into your role for everyone. Pyro isn’t exempt from this, though I’m willing to accept arguments that the class doesn’t perform well at its intended purpose.
E.G. Cleric C3 - This gives later cleric class choices a healing foundation.
Cryomancer gives you a CC foundation.
Pyromancer gives you an offensive foundation or at least is supposed to.
Wizard gives you a toolkit full of utility. Sleep for CC, Lethargy for damage reduction, Quick Cast, Sure spell, etc.

My Sorc C3 has always been designed with Pyromancer in its thoughts, foremost. Reason?
Pets die, pets have AI issues, and you have to do something when you’re not with the pet. I wanted that to always be damage and Pyro fits that. Given the class slots given it fits into that slot well. Others have different intentions and mentalities behind their Sorc choices.

Lower classes aren’t really meant to be your end all be all in any case.
Swordsman C3, very useful but the real meat of your punches comes from other skills later in the game.
Pel gives you the ability to pull enemies but what you do from there? Really impacted by your later choices.

Pyro isn’t really any different.
I will say this update wasn’t perfect for Pyro (or Cryo) and there is clearly things that require eventual changes (staff mastery lol wtf).

However what Pyromancer was doing prior to this update was foolishness. It overstepped its boundaries given its placement in the game. There is a progression in power here between ranks that was devalued when Pyro alone at Rank 2-4 became a top damage dealer due to a level 120 gear item lol wot.
Pyro needs sufficient power that it is notable to use it in later stages of the game, particularly if you don’t have anything else (choosing support classes later).

In that Respect, Flare is still underwhelming. The inability to Enhance Enchant Fire also diminishes Supp builds that could otherwise specialize in that specific skill.

Fireball has a weird set up with Micro Dimension.
The size of MD isn’t really large enough to hit the enemy while duplicating Fireball without Fireball going off before that process in practice.
Due to that, if you’re just duplicating Fireball, Fireball doesn’t really have the scaling to justify duplicating first over just hitting with your MD.
The sole exception is Fireball as a “trap” or zoning skill, this is very niche and not really a factor at all in PvE despite the skills new generous aoe ratio.
Firewall isn’t too threatening either except for the “threat” of Flare that lurks behind it. The threat that would exist if Flare was stronger but it is not.

1 Like

Dont even know where to start…

I was really dreading making this thread, i knew exactly where it was gonna lead to.
Things were not going all that well, yesterdays video was a bust after taking me almost a days hard work to fix it.
I was actually pretty bummed out about everything and your post brought life back to my enthusiasm and hope for this thread.

So thank you!

You said i might not be so keen on Pyro, but i am, i love Pyro, it was my first Wizard, one of the sad moments iv had in this game was finding out some monsters heal off fire spells, not letting me focus on just that class if i wanted to do certain content, like the level 140 dungeon, having to sit around using basic attacks while everyone else killed everything.

I did miss the big raise of the Pyro class, better yet i avoided it, i like my underdog classes and making them work at the same level as the top tier ones.

I say Pyromancer is better now because of the experiences i had with it, although i loved the class i still found myself wanting it to be more active and less dull, which is why i like the new Pyromancer.

I get that people were used to the old Pyromancer, i get being attached to a way a class works and how it performs, i get all of that.

I say the things i do and i look on the bright side not because i want to change peoples outlook on the situation but because over 10 years mmorpg experience tells me things will get better.

I have gone trough this situation more often then i can count, iv been a guild master and a raid leader from casual to hardcore, so i know peoples reaction to these things.
They will go one of three ways, either their not happy, give up on the class and move on, they find a way to make it work for them or they adjust and try to make the class even better out of spite.
I have seen some amazing things done with underdog classes :slight_smile:

…man its kinda late and im tired, i could go on for a while, i do like to ramble haha :slight_smile:

Long and short would be, i love the Pyro class, i get where people are coming from, im trying to help where i can and thank you for your lovely post, if theres anything important i forgot to say ill get back to you in the morning :slight_smile:

4 Likes

I still find shishiwashi comments weird, I just recently went to the lvl 280 hunting ground at Grynas Hill, with my Pyro3Thau3Enchanter build and pyro skills were damaging enough to wipe out good group of mobs, in fact, the only problem I had was taking too much damage from Elite Monsters (about 4k per auto-attack from Elite Tripede x_x)

From what I can comment about, the key skill were both Fire Pillar and Sleep, followed by a high level Shrink Body (not always, since 30 seconds cooldown) or flame ground, and everything exploded with either fire ball, flare and/or Hell Breath.

In fact, after shrinking, it only took a single Hell Breath to wipe even Fire-type monster, first time I ever leveled up the Knock-back attribute, and sure it was helpful at decreasing damage taken from mobs. (They couldn’t even come near me, lol)

Pyromancer skills have HUGE AoE properties, in fact, hell breath, fire pillar, flame ground and flare don’t even have AoE limit.

My Fire Ball is level 9, with attribute at 50 it goes from 404% -> 505% AoE damage, boosted by both Swell Left Arm and Shrink Body, it deals pretty good low cooldown damage against non-bosses.

It is sad that many of the class interactions were killed, but the class is still alive, just not as powerful (broken?) as before.

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yeah you do dmg with pyro because of thau not because of pyro himself

Your Pyro Build dosent even include Pyro3.
Builds and class combinations exist for a reason…

Heres something you probably havent thought of…
Which Wizard Classes can go to Circle3 and then be able to have Thaum3 as well?

Answer… Wiz3, Pyro3, Cryo3, Kino3, ever wondered why?
So think before saying things like “its because of Thaum”, having Thaum3 as a Pyro is one of the perks of playing a pyro, its almost part of the class itself.

Thaum provides damage buffs, this class is made to increase other classes damage, so if you want some more kick to your spells you take it, making it do more or less as well as the classes that CANT get Thaum3 in their build, unless you have a Pyro3 Thaum3 in your group, which makes the Pyro a very viable support with higher damage then normal.

Plenty of ways you can go about this… just remember no class plays by itself, thats not how the game was designed, thats not how class builds work.

Any class that breaks this design formula needs tuning down, which is what happened to Pyro.

If you feel like following with a counter argument, please list a number of Classes that will perform at high level with top damage without using anything but that classes spells and buffs, also explain why you think this class would perform that well.

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Pls think before you write things … what if i want a pyro for dmg and want to combine pyro>sorcerer>necro ? i have no dmg to deal :slight_smile: because pyro hit like a wet noodle and sorcerer pet hit like 3k x 2 with TS = 6k woooow and necro pet dmg is like 1-2k each hit from 1 pet … sry but i’m mad with IMC

3 Likes

Pyro is good, yes if you got the items any class can be good. But now pyro has to rely to thaum to a get a boost in damage for 300+ contents unless you got pretty good equips then other class on wiz 3 can also pack a punch.

I’ve been resetting since start to try out pyro builds. And yes my pyro skills can deal decent damage with thaum on my tree with pyro3-thaum2-lock2 and another build I use is pyro2-ele3-lock2 which I use pyro as a filler DPS with so so damage on 200-300k hp mobs. Still decent than use magic missile for wiz3 IMO.

I think they have a point with pyro, it doesn’t have to rely on thaum for a noticeable damage. care to try on your next reset on the new HG or 290 dungeon at least? but overall after reset event ends, I’m still gonna stick with a pyro-ele-lock

I do think before i write, better yet, i do my research before i write.

Not every single build is good, thats why you experiment untill you find something that works for you.
Pyro3 Sorc3 is not a bad build, it wont lack in damage, Sorc3 does a fair amount of damage, seen people soloing the 290 dungeon by just riding around on their summon with full SPR.

Now you can say “thats full SPR Sorc, so Pyro is gonna do no damage”, well thats something you need to think about wen making builds and what you want them to do, make sure they work well and the classes have some synergy.

Necromancer pets, if they do around 1k to 2k per pet, with 12 pets thats 12k to 24k per more or less a second as sustain damage, not to mention them being able to tank monsters for you giving you some more survival.

Have a look at my Necromancer Thread, no where in there do i mention Pyro is a good class to pair with Necro, not for damage reasons but still not a class i would pick.

Same argument as the Sorc tho, think about your build before making it.
Go have a look around the forum, read actual feedback from classes other then Pyro.

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Also… @Chiro-Hisuke

Still waiting on this.

Yeah sorc was a good dmg class when you ride on your pet … BUT not anymore … since the patch we can only hit 6k x 2-4 when we ride on TS … before the patch 10-20k x 2-4 :slight_smile: you get the point ? … i dont want to beef with you and we are both correct