if you said that RNG is used way too much, how about giving efforts to it?
i have played TOS since the day it is published and i already tasted so much salts from the RNG itself (or maybe im a masochist lol)
only one thing that i despise from TOS, that is how hard and unforgiving Nak Muay unlock quest is.
RNG on ToS doesn’t scale with effort invested.
Current:
-> Doing runs on Velcoffer with 5 characters and trying to get more parties.
Then:
-> RNG on Velcoffer cube.
-> RNG on P2WIN cubes for Diamond Anvils if you want to make a decent weapon.
-> RNG on Enhancement after getting a weapon.
-> RNG on Ichor system.
-> RNG because Ichor can come from Primus stat RNG.
-> RNG on set system.
The challenge is already on the first step, the rest doesn’t really add any difficult but are mostly annoyances.
If you fail one of the later and get a bad weapon you lose everything - what’s the point? Is this a challenge?
the Velcoffer update is only a week old and you said you already gave efforts?
how about my effort of making Miko class which is 5 months long, finding that feking Manahas spirit? or maybe ongoing 3 months finding Red Meduja Essences for Nak Muay?
i still spotted some guys who made a +20 weapons without Diamond Anvil, which is he already spent so much silver on it.
if you said those at least after a 1-3 months running on Velcoffer raid, then yeah, you already gave your efforts too much.
I didn’t say I already gave enough effort. I said I’m doing it.
I actually have 3 Miko unlocked, 2 Appraiser unlocked, 4 Rune Casters unlocked, 4 Shinobi unlocked and some of the R8 classes unlocked. Never used a class unlock voucher. I don’t see how this relates to the RNG system we’re talking about though.
And I already have sold +16 weapons made without Diamond Anvils. And they were multiple similar Primus where one gets +16 or higher, other dies at +8. There’s no challenge here, you get many and try many.
My current main weapon was made with Diamond Anvils because well, you don’t gamble on too expensive things. One clean Velcoffer weapon will cost around 800m-1bi+ or more, now think of trying your luck on it and stopping at +7 0 pot?
And I’m not talking only about Velcoffer. I’m talking about the entire RNG system and enumerated the ones related to this thread and its topic.
They are bad and doesn’t scale with effort. It’s just luck and adds no value as challenge.
it’s how RNG works i believe xD
how about putting your suggestion with a new topic on Suggestion sub? i think maybe there is an improvement on how RNG works, or they could have use a pseudo-chance instead (that isnt so unforgiving for players when they failed)
as for me, the RNG system is still fair. although i did spend much on Goddess Blessed Cube and not getting Giltine Wings. it makes me sad lol
And then we just have two opinions, you like more RNG, I like effort-based progress and agree with the other people in the thread that also dislikes too much RNG steps for no value.
As for Goddess Blessed Cubes, it’s the same, some people loves them and uses USD to buy 10+1 Elixirs, some doesn’t.
just hoping there will be end content where spending time is more worth than relying on RNG instead
who knows?
Yeah, too much rng. It’s scary to see your money and effort flying away from you. Velco is for very “rich players”, it’s planned to be a “silver sink” for them. But what if I, as a f2p that doesn’t have 2 billions in (in game) bank, want to be on par with them? Make me farm for a year for it, but give me a 100% ichor.
This <3 feels like ever since the HG update Tree of RNG intensified to this point. Totally disgusting.
You know what these cubes remind me of?
Running primal raids in FFXIV for the bloody mount.
99 runs, no drop. Might as well exchange 99 tokens for the mount.
At the end of the day, meeeeeh, I had fun.
You better do it with your free company so the party finder won’t potentially snacth it from you.
There are guilds where they won’t need the mount but in exchange you’ll have to help each member the same numbers of times in other annoying content so the help is fair on both sides.
If I may add in, there is another layer: the investment on equip to actually be able to do Velcoffer.
You need to cope with anvil RNG to reach a decent level to be able to switch to full con or almost full con and that only if you have solmiki/masinios equip and you’re lucky with enhancement (+6 0 potential anyone?), else with raffye/irellis and such items, you have another layer of RNG in order to get useful stats.
Don’t say look into market, because Fed has very few good items listed, you often have to buy what you find just for the base damage 
.
No because we already have transcendence which isn’t dependent on RNG. You can farm saalus to get enough shards and/or just farm silver to buy shards off the market to get a 100% chance to transcend everytime. AND you had the option RNGing your transcend to save gems.
It sucks double time cuz IMC completely abandoned any guaranteed chances of gear progression with velcoffer and made it completely RNG based unlike the ALREADY
established transcend system. This was a conscious decision to inject even more artificial difficulty/RNG into the game.
This is not true. Having harder to obtain necessary items prevents you from playing the actual game. If you wanna PvP in ToS (which should be the goal in any MMO) you need the best gear, if it’s too hard to get, or locked behind time based grinds you spent outrageous amounts of time waiting and then when you finally finish and you’ve put in all that effort they change ■■■■ up and force you to get a whole new gear.
I used to play Tera and I had the second best PvE set and the best PvP set, I logged in yesterday to check things out, there was an NPC that gave me new beginner gear, have 1000 more defense than my +12 old BiS armors. It’s been like 6 months and the worst current gear while untouched is 1000 defense more than my maxed out armor, 3900 vs 4900. Even if both numbers are the base and I’m just remembering incorrectly, that’s still insane.
On the other hand I used to play an MMO where all gear was connected, if you got a lvl 5 regular weapon, you could continue to upgrade that piece into a lvl 140 +12 “Primus” 2 socket piece, Now ofc nobody would start with a lvl 5 piece but the point is, rather than making the gear hard to get, getting usuable gear was fairly easy, and once you had it, you never had to get rid of it, you could continue upgrading it forever. It was just really hard to upgrade, the max was +12 and most free to play players were +6 - +7. That was way better longevity than ToS or Tera.
Gear Progression is a stupid system and when it’s this expensive, hard and takes this long to get a usable piece, it’s not worth it. You get it, you use it for a very short while and then it’s outdated.
The issue with all of this is mostly the layers, if Ichors were the only hard part it’d be fine, it’s a difficult upgrade but you can use gear without Ichor until you achieve it, but the fact that you first must clear Velcoffer which requires some good gear to start forces gear progression, then you have enhancement which diamond anvils alleviate a bit but it’s still BS followed by FINDING A DECENT PIECE (Or if you’re serious, a good piece), which is by far the hardest part and then you have to get lucky with the Ichor.
Even finding a decent piece is a two parter for luck, first you gotta get a primus or berthas drop, I barely get blue items with 2000 loot chance and I kill the monsters pretty well, be it in HG, CM stage 5, or even just one shotting everything in Mishekan. However even if you manage to get the primus, it’s almost always a single line. Someone above you did the math for a success on an item, but what would the number look like if they did the math for a perfect piece, We’re talking 3green+1 purple/red/green on a Primus or at least Berthas, without a loot chance event (since that’s gone and probably won’t be coming back anytime soon)
It’s probably easier to get a Tanu Leaf and every gem in the game, than it is to get a full set of good gear + Legendary (Non Marnox) card.
Good thing you dont need velcoffer gear to perform in this game.
Primus 350 / Solmiki is perfectly acceptable. All getting velcoffer gear will do is put you ahead of the curve for the next level cap.
Basically, take your time getting velcoffer gear.
But if you think about it, thats exactly what IMC did with Velcoffer gear: take your favorite equipment and transfer its additional stats onto higher level one with better base stats. Also ichor system allows to transfer stats between armor type (you can have your favorite int/spr bonuses on a plate armor, for example).
Except that ToS isnt about PvP, at least it isnt the main focus of the game in its current state, imo. Getting better gear and trying to upgrade it is playing the ToS atm.
PvP in ToS is just a side-activity.
You think the game is about Gear Progression and that’s okay with you? That’s like a job you don’t get paid for. A game should be about Fun, Competition or Giving the player a thrill that not quite worth calling “fun” is still worth having for them (An example of this can be like a Dynastys Warriors game where you’re mowing down large groups making you feel badass, or it could be like a horror game, where the purpose is to get a thrill from being scared, or so I’ve been told)
Gear Progression doesn’t do any of that, it should never be considered the point of the game. It’s effort for the sake of putting in effort. In any game, the reason to get stronger should always be so you can win the next thing, I know that there is some completionists out there but this game doesn’t try to please them, that should be obvious by the rerollable gear system, and they are a pretty small minority as far as I know, which means If you can complete the hardest PvE content without the BiS gear (Especially if the BiS gear comes from the hardest content) then the point of it is to either gear you up for PvP, or the developers made a a huge mistake of making the BiS gear entirely pointless.
As far as this line “But if you think about it, thats exactly what IMC did with Velcoffer gear: take your favorite equipment and transfer its additional stats onto higher level one with better base stats” That’s exactly what this thread is saying didn’t happen, that “favorite gear” you mention is probably sitting at 6 or less potential, there is no way you are upgrading all your gear to Velcoffer. You need all new gear for Velcoffer or you need insane luck and a decent amount of potential left on your gear.
You appear to be playing the wrong genre of games. You might want to be playing fighting games or something like that if you want competition without gear progression.
MMOS have, and always will be, centric on gear progression. There have been exceptions, but this is the rule.
Its like oyu are saying: “Blizzard made a mistake when they created WoW centered on gear progression and where BiS comes from end-game content and every new patch makes you grind for new gear”.
On top of that ToS is a Korean MMO, a genre of its own known for huge amount of grind required.
I have to agree with:
my completionist soul is happy with “Collection” system in ToS.
Absolutely not true.
MMOs are just like any other video game. The goal is to maximize fun and minimize frustration.
MMOs have lots of different things in them to reach that goal.
In ToS though, it’s all about RNG implemented in the most frustrating and stupid way possible. Every single aspect of the game is just a matter of flipping coins and rolling dice.