Tree of Savior Forum

UPDATED: Tokens can be sold on market for silver, and how they were supposed to (but don't) fight botters

EDIT FROM LATER DEBATE IN THIS THREAD:
Illegitimate Silver sellers are just asking buyers to sell random, unattractive equips on the market at abnormally high prices. This works for moving silver by the millions. They’re probably using this technique to move Silver to their “sales” accounts, too. This defeats almost all of the trading restrictions and is a problem that will need to be solved or we’re all suffering for nothing.

The following is a highly detailed explanation of a system I think could defeat the current exploit while possibly eliminating some of the other, less effective restrictions currently on players:


Original post:
You’ll have no problems affording these at high levels, or at lower ones if you farm up extremely choice single items like Arde Daggers or individual stacks of super high demand crafting mats. Yeah, you’ll only have one slot to work with, so make it count.

This part of the game isn’t truly p2w, although if you want to cry about how it takes you 20% longer to level (it doesn’t affect cards), feel free. No one will be impressed.

More importantly, Tokens cut deep into gold seller profits. How does it do this, exactly? Read on!

Tokens restrict illegitimate sellers in the following ways:

  • They must pay $ to move goods from their bots to the character/account they wish to trade with illegitimate buyers on

  • They (or illegitimate buyers) must pay $ to have a Token on the buyer’s end, as both players must have tokens to 1 to 1 trade

  • If they don’t want that, they must sell accounts directly with the Silver on them, which reduces their potential buyers drastically by eliminating people who want the Silver on their main account as customers

  • Most importantly of all, tokens sharply curtail illegitimate seller profits because it makes them unnecessary for people wishing to buy Silver. Buy a token support the game, and legitimately sell it to a player on the market.

You can’t even 1 to 1 trade Silver anymore so the seller has to provide goods that the buyer has to sell on the market. And did you know tokens have a 30 (last I checked) item trade limit?

Every single bot account will need a Token to move items to sell, and they will be competing in bid wars with actual players for these legitimately purchased tokens. So they won’t be cheap.

Now consider that, no matter how many bot accounts the illegitimate seller has, none of the individual accounts can use market slots to turn what they farm into Silver, because the Silver can’t be traded. So they have to trade items to the seller account, and because the Tokens have a 30 item 1 to 1 trade limit, suddenly the seller account has to buy 420249429 tokens.

Finally, it’s worth mentioning that there is a hard cap on what you can market things for. It is not possible to, for example, list a level 3 monster part for 9,000,000 Silver, so the seller cannot instruct the buyer to do this and avoid transaction restrictions that way.

The effect all of this has on profitability is quite dramatic!

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Except is doesn’t.

Who do you think has more disposable silver to use to buy tokens, you or a gold-seller?

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Uh, what? I’m trying to figure out what you’re trying to say, here. I was talking about the guys who use bots to farm silver to sell to players illegitimately.

Tokens restrict illegitimate sellers in the following ways:

  • They must pay $ to move silver from their bots to the character/account they wish to trade with illegitimate buyers on

  • They (or illegitimate buyers) must pay $ to have a token on the silver buyer’s end, as both players must have tokens to 1 to 1 trade

  • If they don’t want that, they must sell accounts directly with the silver on them, which reduces their potential buyers drastically by eliminating people who want the silver on their main account

  • You can’t even 1 to 1 trade silver anymore so the seller has to provide goods that the buyer has to sell on the market (not really a feature of tokens but worth mentioning)

  • Most importantly of all, tokens sharply curtail gold seller profits because it makes them unnecessary for people wishing to buy silver. Buy a token, support the game, and legitimately sell it to a player on the market.

Do you understand what I was talking about, now?

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And what is stopping those botters from buying a token off the market, just like me and you?

They don’t need to pay real $ for a token, just silver, which they have tons of, from botting.

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Nothing. It cuts into their profits. It adds up, when you realize every single bot account will need a token to move items to sell, and they will be competing in bid wars with actual players for these legitimately purchased tokens. They are going to be pretty damned expensive.

Now consider that, no matter how many bot accounts the illegitimate seller has, none of the individual accounts can use market slots to turn what they farm into silver, because the silver can’t be traded. So they have to trade items to the seller account, and because the tokens have a 30 item 1 to 1 trade limit, suddenly the seller account has to buy 420249429 tokens.

The effect this has on profitability is quite dramatic.

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So who is really getting screwed here?
Who do you think will win these bidding wars…?



A) The people selling the tokens will win. The F2Pers will get screwed.

Using market slots to turn items into silver is not very efficient anyways, what with the 5 market slot limit and the delay before items go to market.

Even if you trade 30 items to your “main seller”, you can’t sell those on market. So it is best, as a gold-seller, to just NPC all your farmed loot for silver.

Depending on if there is a market cap on the price you can sell an item for, “gold-sellers” will now have two options for selling their good for real $:

  1. If there is no market cap; they will tell their custom to sell a cheap item on the market for an insane amount, and the “gold-seller” will buy that item.

  2. If there is a market cap; the “gold-seller” will deal in rare items instead. They will buy a rare item off the market, trade you that item, and you can keep the item or re-sell it.

The 1:1 item trading restrictions therefore make little difference. As you put it, they will cause bidding wars and raise the price of Tokens on the market. The silver-trading and market restrictions are what make the biggest difference here.

2 Likes

Holy hell man. Stop making these topics, you have created enough of the same topic. On top of that the only person your convincing is your self.

Maybe if you ever managed to counter one of my points in a debate, I’d consider doing what you asked. You don’t have what it takes.

@Daenerys
If there were no 1 to 1 trading restrictions it would be easy to simply had valuable goods to illegitimate buyers. The whole system falls apart if there’s an easy way to get things from the bots to the buyers.

I don’t actually think the F2P players will be screwed at all, by the way. The scenario I described is so overwhelmingly toxic to profit that I expect the majority of illegitimate transaction to take place in the form of account sales.

Oh, I forgot to include the market cap in the OP! Thank you!

token can b only traded once , thats what i read somewhere

I have shut you down enough times in your other spam thread of this topic. Seriously you already have topics of this. I am flagging this as spam, please keep it to one thread.

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This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

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You haven’t shut anything down. You’ve ran your mouth perpetually and never made any kind of point other than that you don’t like trade restrictions, which I initially respected, and then stopped respecting when you kept nipping at my heels. I’m done talking with you forever, unless you provide concrete proof or meaningful debate countering one of my statements.

The problem is that there is an easy way. Tokens. “Gold-sellers” will buy them, and “gold-buyers” will also buy them.

The best solution is to disable 1:1 trading and the auction completely. But obviously that would not go over well with the legit players.

All of these restrictions IMC is putting in place, are not going to work. They highly inconvenience players and there are always ways for “gold-sellers” to get around them.

The thing to keep in mind though, is biggest problem with “gold-sellers” is that they are really just botters. If someone sells gold obtained legitimately, it isn’t quite as big of a deal. IMC just needs to stop bots, either through actively hunting them or a reporting system.

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That is actually a good point. So long as there is a demand for Cash Shop items on the market, “gold-sellers” will have a tough time making a profit.

gonna add something to what Daenerys said

no matter how you restrict gold sellers or bots, they will find ways to go around it
once they find it, they will just increase the price based on that solution that they find

so, who really won? the gold sellers/bots. who lost? free and paying users

If gold sellers are playing the market just to drive up token prices, they also drive up how profitable it is for legitimate players to buy and sell tokens, causing the market to flood with them. This will create more token purchases and market sales, which will cause the price to dip.

It will even out, and it even creates the messed up situation where gold sellers find themselves buying things from legitimate players.

Do you have any idea for how hold sellers will beat the system to share with us, or are you complaining?

So they find a way. Then that way gets restricted, too. IMC is clearly willing to go hardcore with this.

Are you serious? The point about players not having to rely on RMT to get Silver was one of the first ones I made to you.

“Most importantly of all, tokens sharply curtail gold seller profits
because it makes them unnecessary for people wishing to buy silver. Buy
a token, support the game, and legitimately sell it to a player on the
market.”

This makes me feel like you’re not really reading my posts completely.

Maybe you are right. Maybe token prices on the market will be high enough that “gold-sellers” will not be able to make a profit. Maybe it will be cheaper to buy Tokens from the Cash-Shop and re-sell them on the market.

But, how expensive are Tokens going to have to be on the Cash Shop then? How long is a F2Per going to have to farm to get the silver to buy one?

Truly, I can only guess. I doubt it will be affordable until high levels, all considering, though.