Tree of Savior Forum

Understanding the EXP situation [Strawpoll Added]

General Gameplay
#164

Also I just thought about this but, to all the people saying “increasing the rates will turn this into another generic MMO,” I would have to disagree. First of all, like I’ve been saying before, it will still be a lot grindier than most modern MMO’s. Second of all, most modern MMO’s, or at least the one’s I’ve seen, lack much customization in skill and stat builds. Take Tera for example, you have no stat allocation, and everyone just buys all the skills. The old style stat and skill allocation that ToS is reviving, coupled with the interesting and unique class system alone will make this game different from other games. Add onto it things like the cute/beautiful art style, the global journal rankings, and the interesting skill interactions(I’m looking at you, telekinesis+fireball combo), and you have quite a different game.

I would also like to note that BECAUSE ToS has so many possibilities in build paths, it encourages people to try a ton of new things. Even if you do manage to max your character, you can still have fun trying another unique build on an alt. I feel that what it lacks in end game(and we don’t even know what the end game is going to be like, so it may not even be lacking), it has in replayability.

Disclaimer: Just because I said something about getting a max level char and making a new one in the previous paragraph, that DOES NOT mean that I think doing this will be easy.

2 Likes
#165

I love grinding, so my opinion is oriented in that direction. Hitting a wall is relative. I played games where it would take you a week to get to level 30 (2nd job change) and another 2-3 weeks to get to level 45 (next set of equipment), keep in mind the max level was 99, but you rarely saw someone level 80+. It’s worth mentioning mobs would give you 0,05% at level 30 and it could take up to 2-4 hours for just 1 level. Personally, it took me about 3-4 hours from level 28-32, which seems fair, unless you compare it to korean, which you shouldn’t. Plus leveling isn’t everything, I didn’t gain one level but improved the passive skills with money and increased my main grinding skill spell damage by about 10% in 2 hours, which is A LOT.

All in all, a game that has up to 500 levels shouldn’t be easy to get to the those type of levels, it should take a lot of time and effort. Games where I join in and see a map full of maxed out people really turns me off, and knowing that the only way to get ahead is by getting new and super rare equipment after that restricts the game in terms of challenge or variety. It’s not because a game has up to 500 levels that it should be easy or even achievable, it only means there is always potential for improvement, even if it take 1 week on grinding for 1 level and if there are people that are willing to do that instead of spending 10 hours looking for a item that has a 0,001% drop rate, let them be ! I personally spent up to 15+ hours max level looking for a card in RO pyramids with no end result, but if I had the chance to increase even by 1 level during those 20 hours, I would have taken it.

I wouldn’t mind if they do what some private servers in ragnarok did in later stages: they added repeatable region quests, limited by your level, where you have to defeat 200-300 of one mob to get 5-10% (or in this case it could be exp scrolls). This would add a bit more variety into the game and possibilities.

On a final note, leveling isn’t everything in term of character development. You can improve a lot by spending in game money to improve your abilities through NPC’s. I’ve personally increased the damage of my cure by 10% in about 2 hours, which is HUGE. Therefore, it’s kinda hard to compare it to game where your scaling depends solely on your equipement and level.

1 Like
#166

Currently the game is still fine and much better than many other MMO games out there, as I have said in other threads. The problem is that the game can’t reach its max potential because of this early grinding. Don’t think that it is fine for ToS to simply be a fine game, ToS is supposed to be a great one and so if it doesn’t feel great to many players then there is something wrong. The selling contents of ToS is its classes and skills, these contents are directly tied to your characters’ levels, to enjoy them you have to level up first.

(1) People try the game, hit the grind wall too soon, they grind for days and days and only get to explore very few early contents of ToS which aren’t all that special. They thought ToS is nothing special and quit, spreading negative reviews.

(2) People try the game. They get faster procession at first, they get to explore a considerable amount of interesting contents in ToS like creative skills, maps, different character types, etc. Now they know what ToS has to offer, they know that ToS is good, they will be willing to grind to make it further in their enjoyment and exploration in the game.

Grinding with various maps to choose from with various skills, character types, etc is a lot more fun than grinding so early when everyone does the same things at the same places. If we start the hardcore grind a bit latter in game, we can have our parties setting up camp, food and stuffs in far away places! It sounds so fun! But how can many know it will be that fun if they have to get through a dreadful grinding first? Now getting to 3x is not a problem since I did that in the first day (the end of the day I was rank 83), upon reaching 4x as the later circle Wizard, I already gave up and am still 4x now when the beta is already about to end.

It’s not about grinding but the scaling of the grind, how do you grind and if you can do something else beside grinding (like PVP, exploration, mini games or anything to refresh the air). The early contents in ToS is so limited so I want to get pass them fast. Better for us to grind when we get to explore the more interesting contents, don’t you think? I believe we will all be happy with that.

I will say this again, I can not give any least care about reaching level cap, all I want is to get into a state where the true potent of ToS can start shining for me.

Also have to admit that I have been bored out partly because of going all the circles of Wizard instead of changing into some class more interesting (got very few skills and most of them never get a chance to be any useful in this beta). Should also have tried other classes and stop pushing this. :expressionless: The point is the grind can be a lot worse for some character types, may to the point of unbearable for many people, this will do nothing good, only limit the variety of character types which again is one of the main selling contents of ToS.

I can't stand the mindless grind.( Complaining)
#167

In my humble opinion i’m very grateful this game exist, in comparison to RO2 which was complete junk to me this game is a marvelous fantasy with a ton of potential. On that figure my sole purpose of playing the game would be to experience the potential of it. By this I mean i would love to experience the game with as many classes as I can and builds in a reasonable amount of time and have fun grinding them. I can definitely grind the game to the cap ( i rebirth 5 times in RO and capped to 99 2 of them and the other 3 were 90+ but it was a x5 server ) The thing is that i could have rebirth once on regular server RO and gotten it to lv 99 i have the mental capability to do it. But i wouldn’t have liked the game as much as i did in the x5 because i had x5 the fun playing as a Paladn, Biochemist, Sniper, Priest, and Stalker vs just the 1. Ofcourse i’m not saying I should kill 1 poring and cap no… it needs a reasonable balance of exp curve and replay ability.

What is my Point? I think a lot of us that like to grind but wish for a faster leveling experience want to make multiple characters and grind and enjoy the grinding journey along the way. Many people will just cap and leave the game after but you shouldn’t make a game around those that just want to take longer to cap before ditching the game, make the game around those willing to stay and play the game over and over and over again with different classes. I played 1 day and I already want to make like 50 characters with 50 different builds and i would,play months just to do that. But not if the rate is this low, with these rates i’ll make like 1 character until i’m done with him. So i fully support the exp boost don’t make it too harsh but make it enjoyable.

#168

But… even if they triple the experience rate it’s still going to take a ton of time and effort to get to 500…(NOTE I AM NOT SAYING WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET TO MAX LEVEL EASILY)

If all you want is to grind and feel rewarded for it, why can’t we just change the experience curve so that it gets really grindy in the 400’s? Just make it get extremely steep at that level range. Then you have a bunch of people that can all be at a relatively similar level, but it’ll still extremely difficult to get to 500. Heck I don’t even care if they make it practically impossible to get there. The benefits of this would be more people being able to compete in things like PvP, and you would keep the grind and rewards for the grind. People that have gotten to the 490’s will be able to feel pride and seniority from their achievements, people that joined the game recently will still be within a somewhat bearable level range to the veterans, and I could get a feel for a multitude of different builds before I decide which one I want to grind with.

The only possible issue I see with this is there being not enough spots to grind, with people just gradually building up in them. However you would also probably have many people that make new characters when they reach that point, and if IMC manages to make enough grinding spots, it should be okay.

4 Likes
#169

the yellow quests only makes you walk to some of the maps, but theres more maps of the same lvl with hidden quests inside it.
For example, theres a lvl 70 map at East of town, sadly at the moment its chain quest ends with a bugged quest that asks you to collect lumber.

#170

^ Agreed.

Grinding should take place at the mid-end game when your character is coming together and has many skills, not at the start when you’re auto attacking mobs.

Shouldn’t take that long to get rank 3-4, then ranks 4-6 can be the grind.

#171

The EXP rate now is thick and meaty. Everyone is going to hit their ‘wall’ sooner or later, especially as a blind-playing first-timer with no references. There’s already a thread on the forums breaking down how to properly grind so you aren’t a level 28 in ChapelF1 getting nowhere with 8 hours of grind, and it is most definitely worth a look at to get an understanding of how to properly progress…

However, more maps (something they show signs of implementing already, not to mention hidden dungeons later on), meaningful variations in enemies (which seems to become less of an issue at levels 80-100~), and more active/complex enemy AI would be great to see in the early game to both flesh out gameplay and ease the growing pains of newer players.

#172

Please don’t make this quest centric exp grind, please. Actual act of “grinding” mobs is FUN in this game. Embrace it to the fullest. Personally I was OK with exp rates as they were in iCBT. What you could do however is make it a bit easier to level early on, like up to level 45 and then slowly crank up the exp rates to current rates.

Just don’t turn this into quest-grind.

1 Like
#173

Tera isn’t without its own problem. While level 1 to 40s is pretty healthy, level 50+ is pretty much a ghost town. The only one that stay high level are the real fans.

I have met so much casual that purchase one month elite status, reach the end game, and quit the game completely. They don’t bother with making another character, and go for the flavour of the month cookie cutter.

#174

I’m not saying that Tera’s model is good? I’m saying that Tree of Savior is quite different from generic games like Tera, because by end game you will be able to have a very unique and interesting build. This, and it’s graphics grant it a lot of uniqueness. So even if we were to increase the experience rates A LOT(which I am not advocating, I just want it increased a bit), it would not become one of the ever present cookie cutter mmo’s currently on the market. I also think that because Tree of Savior’s game play is so focused on your build, it would be a lot better if people could get to the latter half of the game faster, to experience the effectiveness of their ideas.

#175

That would also causes another problem. Like fiesta online, everyone is at the mid and end game location, leaving the beginner area a ghost town. Mabinogi is the same way, if it wasn’t for the fact that people can set up stop in town, the beginner address looks like a ghost town too. this is the reason why setting up shop for beginners to buy stuff cheaper gives of an impression of a populated game.

Age of Wushu does this well. Everyone setup shops, but they have a shopping feature where you can search for a specific item and it will list all the player shop selling it along with their asking price. The catch is trying to find them, but they give you their coordinates to make it easier.

It’s a bad thing to make low level areas a ghost town, since this is the first impression people will get of the game, and quit if it seems like a ghost town. Lots of advertisement and recommendation will help get new players for the low level. basically everything needs careful testing.

To be honest, i think the current grind at level 1 to 30 is fine, 31 to 70 should be slightly higher allowing players to get to rank 5 easier. The grind after that, is whatever goes. But I don’t think the whole server exp rate should increase, it’s more of level range of the level tablet needs more fine tuning.

#176

I believe that Klaipedia is the main town for the whole game. The other town apparently doesn’t have a couple things, like storage and market manager. Even if it does, you only reach it after getting into the 100’s, not to mention that some people will just stick with Klaipedia because you can warp to places instantly. I don’t think there’ll be a problem of people not seeing the population.

#177

the hero exp is good but not the skill exp u can imagine 3rd circle swordman pretty hard to play i already play it and i dont like the skill exp for other class no problem but the advance basic class is nightmare

#178

just my 2 cents but I don’t mind the current exp rate nor the grind. What I’m optimistic about is that there could be events like a 2x exp rate weekend/holidays or maybe an event that increases the blue mobs rate that could help many players although it does have drawbacks like overcrowded grinding spots and servers but it’s still an option. And because of all this talk and demand for higher rates, i’m positive that there’s going to be a 2x item consumable in the cash shop because of all this demand which will lead to discussions of pay to win and blah blah but it’s not winning if you don’t try to compare yourself and level to other players and the company needs to make money somehow too. Maybe some quests could also give out 2x item consumables as rewards too? like for 10 or 30 minutes? Just some thoughts and possible options. (sorry if these ideas were talked about already, I don’t think I read all 175 posts)

#179

Create two server with different exp rate.

#180

Seperates players and can end up lowering the lifespan of a game due to it becoming more obviously barren over time. It would work if every MMO had a guaranteed future, but right now I don’t think that they would be willing to put themselves at risk like that.

#181

Quite an odd exp chart, I would have expected it to be a continuous upward trend rather than the chart “resetting” it self and scaling up faster each time (as you can notice with 85-99 jumping up quite high, if the chart was extended to level 110 or so it would easily overtake the level 84 peak).

On a side note:

1 - About grinding
The exp we get from monsters is too low, the exp
we get from blues is too high. It’s a blue hunting party, where luck is
the major factor of level disparity, and it shoudn’t be this way.

I very much agree with this, nerf the blue mob exp by quite a lot, and bump up the normal mob exp rate a little bit to compensate somewhat. It’s a bit crazy on how fast you can blow through some levels when you’re lucky enough to find 4+ blue mobs in less than 15-20 minutes of time.

#182

i think the best grind is one where 80% of the benefits are easy-medium to gain, and 20% are difficult

#183