Tree of Savior Forum

Tokens -> Immediate Attributes? You mean Pay2Win?

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#194

I get angry, what are you complaining about?
If players do not buy cash the server simply does not exist.
And they who are whining will not play for free, taking longer
hours or not to stay as strong.

You just play without pay because of these items and these advantages.
Obviously those who do not pay need to take disadvantage.

Let’s think to the contrary:
A game like WoW, consecrated and Subscript style.
Lose subscribers and wants to open to free players, it is not natural that new
Free players have disadvantages and restrictions?

The big key is to remain balanced, and IS.

Anyway you can buy U $ 14.99 in Cash in the game, monthly, and pretend to be a subscription. And free players have the disadvantages.

#195

I can agree to that too, as long as the disparity between paying and free players doesn’t reach a huge critical point, wich the actual ToS token will inalienably do in perhaps 9-10 or 12 months from now.

Considering the time needed leveling up is exponential, the disparity will be far more visible the more higher levels will be unlocked, especially when lvl 600 will be accessible. ( Not to mention rumors about RO-like rebirths )

#196

I think all these babies need to get a job…

#197

The problem IMO is that waiting system.
I have to work 10hours a day, and have less than 2 hours to play, so I would only be able to level 3 times a SINGLE attribute, MAX, per day because I can’t be around the computer 24/7.
Even if I have the silver required to advance, the game itself forces me to wait.

#198

Almost all my attributes are maxed out. This token benefit would be P2W if you had absolutely no way of maxing out your attributes without paying for a token. That’s what people fail to realize when it comes to P2W

#199

About the exponential exp… Base EXP, EXP drop off

Well,with the latest patch note ( today ), token-users won’t need to wait for attributes. [UPDATE] Server Transfer Maintenance and Patch Notes (April 26th, 2016)

So that’s a good thing in your situation, you’ll still have the barrier of the crazy amount of silvers said attributes requires, but yeah, each day has enough trouble of its own, right ? :slight_smile:

#200

I thought this was a good thing, but, it would be better if it was on the game by default, not a premium exclusive.

Even though I wouldn’t be able to max out a attribute in one week, since I can barely play…

But I do think that this is good, so that Token users won’t have such a huge advantage in the end.

Well, only if they’re rich, but, if you have that amount of Silver you could buy a Token from the market anyways.

#201

You could, if you so desire, as soon as buying TP gets avaiable, buy lots of tokens, sell them in the in-game market and then max-out your attributes in 2 minutes.

Isn’t that the very definition of P2W ? That’s the point of this whole topic actually.

#202

Wow. They sell max lvl characters for $60… i usually say its not p2w if it free players can attain it, but that i might have to consider p2w… Buying max level characters.

#203

I believe that the most used definition of P2W is paying to get instantly what other cannot without paying.

Like, paying for an acessory that gives you +90 all stats and only you who has paid for it can get it.

Me being able to buy a lot of tokens and selling them is mitigated by the fact that free players can buy that same token and have the same advantages as I have.

Except for the buttload of money that can be made off of that.
And even that has its limits, since you cannot max out every attribute without leveling up your class rank.
You still has to play the game.

Even buying levels, free players can get there eventually.
And a max level player will play with and against players on their own level range, so, there is no big deal.

#204

Yeah man, WoW has quite some problems right now, they pissed off their playerbase in both PvE and PVP. I wouldn’t know in the details though since i didn’t play this game for several years ( and not even really actively when i did ) so i won’t say more about this, wich is off-topic here anyway :slight_smile:

Let’s imagine that tomorrow, IMC add in the cash shop an item that enable a 10’000% bonus experience on your account, or silver bonus, or even both.

Some people in this thread would HAVE, in order to stay consistant in their logic, maintain that this item ( just like the WoW 60$ max lvl character) is just a “pay for convenience”, because “free player can attain it too”, you seee what i mean ? It’s exactly the same thing, the only difference resides in the degree of proportion.

#205

Yeah, one of the issue that is apparent as i read through all these comments, is that the number 1 factor of discord is the unability to set a universal definition of what P2W is, everyone has it’s own.

But some people do have better arguments, considering how THIS game works about what could be considered a fair/unfair advantage.

Being able to litteraly generate almost infinite silver through token selling, in a game where currency is SO important, in terms of leveling speed, access to gear and the ridiculously expensive attributes, can hardly fall in the “fair” side of the spectrum.

And a max level player will play with and against players on their own level range, so, there is no big deal.

Indeed, same level, but you’ll have to compete, in PvP, during world bosses or trying to find party members against people that got far superior gears and attributes than you do. these very people will crush you in PVP, deny you almost all world boss loots (wich is limited) and be picked first to high-end content parties.

#206

I went with Token only and ONLY for one reason … Exp bonus of 30%. This game is ALL about leveling and the faster you level the more you can explore, the better you get and more ranks you get … This is just my opinion. I’ll do anything for extra Exp. Hell I’m even buying Exp books and using them efficiently with the right group in dungeons or when I’m in a party (as long as there is a healer that HEALS).

#207

Blizzard screwed the whole system for WoW. They started introducing some very stupid new features like Pet Battles (POKEMON ANYONE?) and farm ville or whatever (I heard its gone) then they introduced something completely new in that last expansion where you send mercenaries to do jobs for you and you earn … I don’t know what you earn. But you now have mercs in that game? … Oh next expansion everyone will have a legendary … It’s just getting stupider and stupider. They’re baby feeding everyone …

Blizzard’s game stopped being good for a lot of players after Wrath of the Lich King. I agree, I think Burning Crusade was one of their best expansions. The mobs were hard, things were hard to farm, PvP wasn’t easy … just a lot of things. WotLK was so awesome because of the last raid instance when you fight the Lich King. That was a bad ass fight for sure and I even got my Shadowmorne (never will ever forget this amazing legendary weapon). For me, the game stopped being good right when they stopped updating after Cataclysm … when Death-whatever raid was out there was no more updates for months. I loved that expansion because the Warrior class was so efficient and so powerful it was very crazy. I’ve mastered it and became one of the top players not only on my server but across the board on all servers. Definitely was never #1! But hit other ranks. And I enjoyed it because I left my long-time drama-loving guild to another serious guild that doesn’t give a ■■■■ about your stupid life and only cares about the game and raiding and the people were fun. Oh, and only ONE officer and ruler in the guild which absolutely destroyed drama and he was a very smart raid leader (very very smart). Anyways, that’s my two cents. Tried other expansions for few days and they sucked … :confused: Badly.

This game is awesome because of the class combination. Oh man I can talk all day about it. But Swordsman needs a real fix post level 200. The class doesn’t scale very well and our damage gets worse and worse as we level (220, 240, etc) compared to say Archers and Wizards. The equipment system is so stupid … I just want to know who made this cookie-cutter and slapped the butter on it because YOU ARE NOT A REAL GAME DESIGNER! I hope they read that. Equipment needs to be more flexible with levels, they need stats, common items need to be introduced (green) and blue items need real buffs (more stats) and purples NEED to be different than oranges … Purple for skill increase (can be specific skills and buffs) while legendaries need to feel like real legendaries - something like Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls way of dealing with legendaries (if you haven’t played it lately, go now and see for yourself). Lgendaries need to have custom skills that make them stand out, that buff the ■■■■ out of your character for X seconds with internal CD on it, or blasts your foes with a powerful attack or something … But legendaries in this game … lol. Wut?

Anyways … I don’t care about the Story. It’s very stupid so no comments on that.

#208

What bothers me is gold sellers. Not people who invest money into the game.

#209

Imagine a guy comes in with a handful of silver bought from a gold seller, goes to the class instructor, then spam learning the attribute … while other players take their time to gather up silver to learn the attribute they really want … tell me this is not p2w.

Honestly they screwed up badly. Learning 2 attributes at the same time with a token was MUCH better than this (they could even make it 3 attributes at a time.)

Btw, I’m a token user, but this new system makes it tooooooo convenient.

#210

Bump.

hash tag, twenty characters.

#211

I have 5 tokens bought from steam and I’m not supporting this idea.

Well… at least you know i’m not biased but it’s based on my real opinions.
I’ve yet to see anyone who didn’t pay a single token or used any to get their first token say anything.
I’ll be interesting to know what they’ll say.

Not trying to start anything but I’m really curious if there are people like that.

#212

Is there any need to keep bumping this topic?

Ahem, you know RMT is illegal, right?
And as many pointed out most of the attributes, the ones that go highest in level, are already instantly learned even without a token.
And you can buy a token on the market for silver.
Even the OP and the P2W camp have stopped arguing this particular feature being the one that makes ToS P2W.

I’m pretty sure there is already someone who talked about his friends who only bought tokens with in-game silver somewhere in the thread. People like that do exist.
If no one who didn’t pay for any tokens has replied to this topic (or they didn’t feel the need to point that out about themselves) doesn’t that mean that they actually don’t care?

#213

Yes it is known that many people that bought currency in MMOs are now in jail. At this point it is unclear what they were charged with - they just disappeared in jail.